Keeping the peace with a brother in law

[Billy Jack]

On Sunday, my brother-in law (1 of 3) came over to my house while I was out in my shop. I've been cleaning it up and had all my saws clean and neatly displayed. He remarked that he wished he had built his shop the same way (it is on a slab, stick built, wired, insulated, sheetrocked, and vinyl siding), then asked me where I buy my saws from, because he needs another saw. Big RED flag came out. This is the same guy who I have remarked "permanently borrowed" a Husqvarna 55 and a brand new Makita (50-ish cc model) that I had used for only fifteen minutes (only a slight scratch on the bar paint!). He borrowed them probably three YEARS ago, and I asked him several times to bring them back so I could service them, although he could continue to use them for his (small) landscaping business.

Up until two days ago, I had a glimmer of hope that both saws still lived, but now I bet they are junk (if he still has them). He doesn't maintain equipment, of that I am sure. Part of this issue was my lack of insistence for him to return the saws in a timely manner. I take responsiblity for that. But Sunday I got the feeling he was going to ask to borrow another one (he'll probably do this by asking my wife when I'm not home).

I've already made up my mind that his "borrowing" days from me are over. I feel that a good $700 dollars worth of used-up chain saws sealed that deal. I'm going to instruct my wife that he is not to borrow anything without asking me personally, but she already knows I'm pissed at him. He's not a bad guy - I actually like him - but he is not a responsible person. Now I want to just maintain a level of civility and just write off the two saws as a learning experience for myself. Still, when he (likely) asks to borrow something (namely a saw), I feel a strong urge to qualify my refusal with an ultimatum that he returns both saws in whatever shape they are in, as well. This might get some bad blood boiling on the wife's side of the family because I tend to dig my heels in when I'm angry, and strongly express my reasoning for my stance. I have a sneaking suspicion that IF the saws were still useable, he sold them a while back, but won't admit it. That's why I'm leaning towards seeing two battered pieces, that used to be chain saws, before I call him out.

Any suggestions on how to deal with this? No, I'm not going to beat him up though. Non-violent suggestions please.

 

[highpointtree]

you need to go cut down a strong but flexable sapling and take the time to carve a quality spine out of it. then attach it to your back so you can stand your ground. why would you feel the need to justify a NO answer? I would tell him where to buy a saw like he asked. and even offer him a ride to introduce him to your dealer. then I would ask for my saw's back, considering he will have a new saw. if your two loaner saw's are no longer anywhere to be found then ask him to replace it while he is at the dealer. giving away saw's is like giving away money. if your wife thinks you should "lend" your saw's to her brother, then "lend" her stuff to your sister.

 

[crmyers]

Stand your ground, better to piss him off than loose any more saws. I have a BIL that is the same way. He used to borrow tools and either brake them or say that he lost them. I finally put my foot down and he kows better than to ask now. Wife was pissed for a while but she got over it.

 

[blsnelling]

You've basically just told us that you think he's a thief. If he sold the saws, that's exactly what he is. You're being too nice.

 

[GFierce]

I fully agree you have every right to tell him no when it comes to saws. I would tell him the only way to ever borrow anything again would be to either return the borrowed saws or replace them. Those saws cost you good money and something borrowed should always be returned in the same shape it was borrowed in. That is just my opinion though. Good luck trying to get them back some people like that have no respect for somebody that works hard for the things they enjoy.

 

[KRP]

The "another saw" he want's to buy may just be in addition to the saws he borrowed from you. Maybe those saws are still good shape. Try again to do a tune up on the saws he borrowed. Maybe even offer a bar size change on the borrowed ones. Stick to your guns about seeing the saws you lent him, let him back into a corner, and you look like the good and helpful guy.

 

[Billy Jack]

you need to go cut down a strong but flexable sapling and take the time to carve a quality spine out of it. then attach it to your back so you can stand your ground. why would you feel the need to justify a NO answer? I would tell him where to buy a saw like he asked. and even offer him a ride to introduce him to your dealer. then I would ask for my saw's back, considering he will have a new saw. if your two loaner saw's are no longer anywhere to be found then ask him to replace it while he is at the dealer. giving away saw's is like giving away money. if your wife thinks you should "lend" your saw's to her brother, then "lend" her stuff to your sister.

I see your points, but it's not a matter of being spineless. I accept the fact that I should have demanded the saws be returned a long time ago. I can't change that now, but I want to maintain civility with my family members. Pushing the issue now might change that if I do it the wrong way. It's not a matter of fear or cowardice, I just don't want to make a bad situation worse by taking the wrong course. Of all of my brother-in-laws, he's the only one who has ever helped me do anything significant. And my wife has never insisted I should lend him anything, she's just a very trusting person who will do anything for her family. It's one of the reasons I love her and been married to her for over 25 years.

I already told him to check out pawn shops.

 

[Scooterbum]

Seems to me a business should be able to support itself.As in buying tools to work with.........

3 year loan of tools is insane in my book.He should return or replace at the very least.

I give a few saws away from time to time, but a guy using them to make a living with should take some of that money he made and put it back to buy his own saws.

Unless he just flat out doesn't't give a crap about you, your possessions, your property, your feelings, your hard earned money that bought the saws to start with and so on and so on................

Show him and your wife this thread and see what he has to say then.

 

[Billy Jack]

You've basically just told us that you think he's a thief. If he sold the saws, that's exactly what he is. You're being too nice.

I have suspicions, but no proof. That's why even a glimpse of the two saws would make me much happier (I can deal with him wearing them out). But if those suspicions prove to be true, I will no longer be nice. Being he is related is sort of a betrayal that I don't know I can accept. It makes it more difficult because the outcome will be permanent with someone I have to see around holidays at a minimum, not to mention his kid being around mine.

 

[Billy Jack]

There is no need to get anyone's emotions involved or feelings hurt. Just send him the bill for the $700 worth of chain saws in the mail with a note explaining that since they haven't been returned then you asume that they are no longer borrowed, that he has decided that he wants to own them.

There are only 3 ways to own something. Either you buy it, you steal it, or someone gives it to you as a gift. Since you didn't give him $700 worth of saws even though he is a nice guy, and you know he isn't a thief, it is safe to say that he wants to buy them, tell him that since he is family that you will give him a discount and only charge him $500 for the saws. (better than nothing)opcorn:

Good points. That might prove to be useful, thanks.

 

[Billy Jack]

Stand your ground, better to piss him off than loose any more saws. I have a BIL that is the same way. He used to borrow tools and either brake them or say that he lost them. I finally put my foot down and he kows better than to ask now. Wife was pissed for a while but she got over it.

We share a common pain. I think I am going where you are.

 

[highpointtree]

I see your points, but it's not a matter of being spineless. I accept the fact that I should have demanded the saws be returned a long time ago. I can't change that now, but I want to maintain civility with my family members. Pushing the issue now might change that if I do it the wrong way. It's not a matter of fear or cowardice, I just don't want to make a bad situation worse by taking the wrong course. Of all of my brother-in-laws, he's the only one who has ever helped me do anything significant. And my wife has never insisted I should lend him anything, she's just a very trusting person who will do anything for her family. It's one of the reasons I love her and been married to her for over 25 years.

I already told him to check out pawn shops.

sounds like you already balanced the good against the bad, and he has more good traits than bad. if thats the case the only thing you can do now is learn how to deal with the bad he has to offer. saying no is a great start. bottom line is that respect in all issues have to be equal on both sides

 

[Dale]

You flat out tell him, IF HE DOESN'T PRODUCE the 2 saws you've already loaned him, he is getting his SISTER BACK, no questions asked. That ought to scare the hel! out of him right ?

 

[Billy Jack]

The "another saw" he want's to buy may just be in addition to the saws he borrowed from you. Maybe those saws are still good shape. Try again to do a tune up on the saws he borrowed. Maybe even offer a bar size change on the borrowed ones. Stick to your guns about seeing the saws you lent him, let him back into a corner, and you look like the good and helpful guy.

Thanks, that was my ploy with the maintenance idea in the past. Once I thought I saw a blue casing ( my Makita?) under all the crap in his truck bed, but I'd probably have herniated myself to dig through it to find out!

I'm glad you see it as I'm trying not to turn into the bad guy here. He hit some hard times, and I can absorb the cost of the two saws, regardless, but I want to maintain good relations while knowing the truth. Difficult.

 

[tjbier]

If he does ask say, "I already borrowed you 2 saws, what happened to them?"
That will give him the chance to explain himself, and if he's mum about it then you will know they are gone, but at least you will know.
Then you can feel free to tell him he's already gone through 2 of your saws and why would you give him another?
I don't think anyone could be mad at you for being reasonable with him. Good luck.

 

[Billy Jack]

Seems to me a business should be able to support itself.As in buying tools to work with.........

3 year loan of tools is insane in my book.He should return or replace at the very least.

I give a few saws away from time to time, but a guy using them to make a living with should take some of that money he made and put it back to buy his own saws.

Unless he just flat out doesn't't give a crap about you, your possessions, your property, your feelings, your hard earned money that bought the saws to start with and so on and so on................

Show him and your wife this thread and see what he has to say then.

Good points, but I have to take part of that blame. I never forced the issue correctly. He was struggling in the landscaping business and I thought it best to just let the saws ride (I've got six more). But now his livelihood is with a pest control company, and the landscaping is a sideline thing. While I have already accepted the loss of the two saws, I have to consider the future and how that will play out. I'd be a fool to loan him anything else without knowing why those two saws were never returned. I'm in ap osition where I want to help him out, but can't, because the trust isn't there.

But my wife isn't a problem in this. More correctly, I'm trying NOT to involve her because it's her brother and would be even harder for her. My problem, my responsibilty.

 

[Billy Jack]

You flat out tell him, IF HE DOESN'T PRODUCE the 2 saws you've already loaned him, he is getting his SISTER BACK, no questions asked. That ought to scare the hel! out of him right ?

LOL. No way, I love that girl! She's a keeper, and been more of a mother to him than a sister.

 

[Billy Jack]

If he does ask say, "I already borrowed you 2 saws, what happened to them?"
That will give him the chance to explain himself, and if he's mum about it then you will know they are gone, but at least you will know.
Then you can feel free to tell him he's already gone through 2 of your saws and why would you give him another?
I don't think anyone could be mad at you for being reasonable with him. Good luck.

That's exactly where I am. I asked about a year ago if he still had them - flat out - and he said yes. Sometimes I feel like I am giving him an excuse, and that's stupid on my part.

I wish he was a drinker. I'd get him drunk and then the truth would flow like pee after a twelve-pack!

 

[Torin]

Have a talk with him. You loaned two, what happened to them & why didn't speak to you about it? Be upfront and non-confrontational. Keep your cool and listen to what he has to say.
Now, if he truly is looking to buy new & you have written those two saws off, offer to help him look for a new saw. I'd still ask about the two he "borrowed".
If he is actually looking to "borrow" again, have the talk.
Good luck.

 

[Billy Jack]

This has been insightful, and I appreciate the comments (and future ones).

I think I'll handle it this way:

I'm going to bring up his comment about buying another saw. Then I'm going to ask him if the two he borrowed are wore out, while telling him it's fine if they are. If he says they are, I'll tell him to bring them back to me and I'll see if they can be salvaged (the 55 has lots of parts to interchange with my 51), or possibly rebuilt. If they can, I'll tell him to just buy the parts needed, I'll rebuild them, and he can keep them instead of buying another one. That will be cheaper than buying a new saw (likely), and give him TWO good saws instead of one. If he says he threw them away, I guess I'm just going to accept that and tell him that was a mistake because I could have used parts off of them.

Maybe that's the way to proceed.