Little Crane mishape

[beastmaster]

Seems like it's the easy ones that some times almost get ya. Was removing a small black pine that had died from beetles. It was right up next to the house with all the heavy branches out over the house. The pine was maybe only 35 feet tall. The Boss ask me if I thought it weighed over 3000 lbs, I said it don't weigh over 5000. Because of all the weigh over the house and it being so off balance, I felt it could tilt and a branch hit the slate roof. We decided to take it in two picks. I was in the tree and hooked up the cable, I lowered my self where we decided to make the first cut and he tells me he wants to take the whole thing. It his crane so I come down and start my cut. I was 90% through when it started to set back. He went to move it a little and I guess that's when he realized he may of bite off more then he could handle.
I offered to climb it and knock some of those limbs off, he said no, but he did let me use the silky pole saw and cut off some limbs that would of took out a lamb post it it twisted like it looked like it was, I then finished the cut and got the hell out of there. I heard the crane strain, then if make a weird screaming noise as it lifted off the tree. the trunk went down to the ground, and hydrolic oil started shooting out all over the place. The tree twisted , it and came to a rest still being supported by the KB crane. The new concrete drive way was soaked with fluid.
The trees had been done by an other Company. They were liontailed and full of beetles.(trimmed at the wrong time of year) A consulting arborist was treating the trees and we were documenting every thing for a law suit against the company who did the trees a few months earlier. It was a little embarrassing to say the lest.
I first climb the boom to see what happened. One of the fittings that went to a cylinder had broke off, or got sheared off. The boom couldn't be retracted, or lifted again once lowered. So I climb the tree hooked to the boom, and tied in off the cable, I was just going to cut her down, but the cable was twisted around a piece of the tree and there was a lot of pressure on it. it would of cut me in half if I tried to cut it out. So I came down SRT off the cable. and started cutting pieces off tell the pine was hanging, then I went up put in a pulley and tied a rope under the cable then came down and hooked up my set of double pulleys I've been dieing to use. easily lifted a 500 lb piece of wood up so I could climb back up and disconnect the cable from the boom and lower th piece, without breaking the driveway. Fun times.
The piece was to heavy for that little KB crane granted but not that much , it should of handled it. I just glad it happened then and not while I was under it tied it to a tree.
I hope someone learns some thing from this mishap, It's never good to change a plan in mid job, and spur of the minute. He lost a day of work and a crane that's out of commission for a while, And though the owner operator is as professional as they come, he sure ate crow today, I just thankful no one got hurt or property damaged.

 

[imagineero]

I hope you learnt something from this mishap. The crane owner's crane is on the line with any lift, but with any tree lift your LIFE is on the line. You knew the pick was too heavy, obviously the crane op didn't due to his lack of tree experience. You let him take the call, despite knowing better. Did you learn anything from that? Would you make the same decision again, in the middle of a law suit, with your own reputation, the reputation of the company, the crane, the property, and your own life on the line? You should have put your foot down and insisted on taking it in two. It's often not a confrontation.... the guy says "I can take the whole thing". You say "let's play it safe and take it in two". Job done.

I'm very selective on which crane op's I'll work with. I've got two guys, and they're both retired tree guys. They both only own 20tonne cranes, but I'll take them over a non tree guy 50 tonne operator ever day. I've hired cranes up to 300T in past. Normal crane ops are used to lifts on objects that have designated lift point, and have the weight of the object stamped on it, or at worst refer to a table of weights for cubic yards of a known material in a measured bin with the weight of the bin already known. This is a far cry from tree work where the load is often guessed, the balance of the piece uncertain, and the load will almost certainly shift on release. It's a very dynamic load!

Retired tree guys who become crane ops have experience with this. They have a very good idea of where to put the chains to balance the load, even better than you do, even if you have done many many crane jobs. Things look different from the crane than they do in the tree. They also have a very good idea of what they can take, and tend to get a taste of it before they take a bite. They've been burnt in past, and know to assess a tree even if they've lifted the same species in past. Seasons change, sap rises and falls. Good crane ops are also patient, and have a sense of timing, and of urgency when required. They can save your life!

Not to say I won't work with op's who don't have tree experience, but when I do I'm very much going to be calling the shots. Like I said, it's their crane on the line, but it's my life. All the bravado disappears after they've taken that first pick and seen how it moves, and the dynamic loads it creates. They were arguing for a bigger pick originally, but I told them we were taking a smaller one. Then after the first pick, things reverse. I get feedback on what it weighed (about what I thought) and what they can lift, and I want to take a bigger piece, but the movement freaked them out and they want to go smaller!

I'll take an experienced ex tree guy in a 20 tonne crane over a new op in a 50 tonne crane any day of the week. The experienced guy with the smaller crane is going to get a whole bunch of work done in less time, safer, and will give me feedback instead of the other way around. He's probably also going to come out to the job at half the hourly rate! Everyone's a winner.

I gotta say too, what the hell are you doing climbing the boom of a crane with sheared fittings that can't retract? What were you gonna do, jump on the end of the boom? Was there any plan there?

Shaun

 

[dbl612]

I hope you learnt something from this mishap. The crane owner's crane is on the line with any lift, but with any tree lift your LIFE is on the line. You knew the pick was too heavy, obviously the crane op didn't due to his lack of tree experience. You let him take the call, despite knowing better. Did you learn anything from that? Would you make the same decision again, in the middle of a law suit, with your own reputation, the reputation of the company, the crane, the property, and your own life on the line? You should have put your foot down and insisted on taking it in two. It's often not a confrontation.... the guy says "I can take the whole thing". You say "let's play it safe and take it in two". Job done.

I'm very selective on which crane op's I'll work with. I've got two guys, and they're both retired tree guys. They both only own 20tonne cranes, but I'll take them over a non tree guy 50 tonne operator ever day. I've hired cranes up to 300T in past. Normal crane ops are used to lifts on objects that have designated lift point, and have the weight of the object stamped on it, or at worst refer to a table of weights for cubic yards of a known material in a measured bin with the weight of the bin already known. This is a far cry from tree work where the load is often guessed, the balance of the piece uncertain, and the load will almost certainly shift on release. It's a very dynamic load!

Retired tree guys who become crane ops have experience with this. They have a very good idea of where to put the chains to balance the load, even better than you do, even if you have done many many crane jobs. Things look different from the crane than they do in the tree. They also have a very good idea of what they can take, and tend to get a taste of it before they take a bite. They've been burnt in past, and know to assess a tree even if they've lifted the same species in past. Seasons change, sap rises and falls. Good crane ops are also patient, and have a sense of timing, and of urgency when required. They can save your life!

Not to say I won't work with op's who don't have tree experience, but when I do I'm very much going to be calling the shots. Like I said, it's their crane on the line, but it's my life. All the bravado disappears after they've taken that first pick and seen how it moves, and the dynamic loads it creates. They were arguing for a bigger pick originally, but I told them we were taking a smaller one. Then after the first pick, things reverse. I get feedback on what it weighed (about what I thought) and what they can lift, and I want to take a bigger piece, but the movement freaked them out and they want to go smaller!

I'll take an experienced ex tree guy in a 20 tonne crane over a new op in a 50 tonne crane any day of the week. The experienced guy with the smaller crane is going to get a whole bunch of work done in less time, safer, and will give me feedback instead of the other way around. He's probably also going to come out to the job at half the hourly rate! Everyone's a winner.

I gotta say too, what the hell are you doing climbing the boom of a crane with sheared fittings that can't retract? What were you gonna do, jump on the end of the boom? Was there any plan there?

Shaun

fiting sheared off, lock valve did its job, boom not going anywhere. beast master trying to make the best of a bad situation. probably thought out the situation more than you give him credit for. everybody went home in one piece, a learning experience occurred for all involved. these things must not happen in australia!

 

[imagineero]

I guess I misread it when it came across as "I knew the pick was way too heavy for the crane but decided to endanger my own life and let the crane op go ahead since he was at the controls and it would save 15 minutes. After the fact I decided to use the failed boom which was still suspending the tree that caused it to shear as my TIP and go ahead and keep climbing to save the day". And this was supposed to be a lesson for who? What was the lesson?

No arrogance here, just trying to offer a reality check for a fellow climber who risks his life to cut trees down. It's just a tree. Your life is worth more.

Shaun

 

[gorman]

I'm not too familiar with k booms. I only have dealt with Terex stingers. What I always think about when takin picks is even if I can take a huge piece, I don't want to overload the ground crew de-limbing it while I wait for the slings to come back.
I'm very glad to hear no one got hurt and best of luck.

 

[beastmaster]

I never said the piece was to heavy for the crane. It was pushing it pretty close though. My concern was a branch would hit the slate roof when it got picked up if he took it in one pick. The crane malfunctioned. I was never in any danger, but under a different situation it could of been deadly.
As far as going up the boom. It wouldn't retract, the turret still worked and we had one chance to lower the boom. If not done right the truck would of been stuck there unable to move. Some one had to check out what the damage was. What was we to do call a helicopter ? Same with the piece on the boom. Couldn't just leave it there. Someone had to do it. I climb and rig for a liven.
I some how have survived doing this for 34 year with out a injury. I do what it takes to get the job done. If in a pinch,you'd be glad I was around. I look after everyone around me. But I'm just an employee when it comes down to it.

A

 

[nk14zp]

Glad it all ended well.

 

[derwoodii]

any pictures ? anyhoo good to hear no harm other than red faces and lesson learnt

when say KB crane is that Knuckle boom ?? like on truck mounted rig

 

[beastmaster]

Yes, it's a little 60 ft + 10 knuckle boom crane. Suckers made several million dollars in the last 10 years. To bad this is the last year. it doesn't meet the new smog laws.
I have photos but I'd be unemployed if I posted them.

 

[derwoodii]

Yes, it's a little 60 ft + 10 knuckle boom crane. Suckers made several million dollars in the last 10 years. To bad this is the last year. it doesn't meet the new smog laws.
I have photos but I'd be unemployed if I posted them.

K thanks and understood

 

[dbl612]

I guess I misread it when it came across as "I knew the pick was way too heavy for the crane but decided to endanger my own life and let the crane op go ahead since he was at the controls and it would save 15 minutes. After the fact I decided to use the failed boom which was still suspending the tree that caused it to shear as my TIP and go ahead and keep climbing to save the day". And this was supposed to be a lesson for who? What was the lesson?

No arrogance here, just trying to offer a reality check for a fellow climber who risks his life to cut trees down. It's just a tree. Your life is worth more.

Shaun

i agree 100%

 

[teamtree]

I never said the piece was to heavy for the crane. It was pushing it pretty close though. My concern was a branch would hit the slate roof when it got picked up if he took it in one pick. The crane malfunctioned. I was never in any danger, but under a different situation it could of been deadly.
As far as going up the boom. It wouldn't retract, the turret still worked and we had one chance to lower the boom. If not done right the truck would of been stuck there unable to move. Some one had to check out what the damage was. What was we to do call a helicopter ? Same with the piece on the boom. Couldn't just leave it there. Someone had to do it. I climb and rig for a liven.
I some how have survived doing this for 34 year with out a injury. I do what it takes to get the job done. If in a pinch,you'd be glad I was around. I look after everyone around me. But I'm just an employee when it comes down to it.

A

Beast...thanks for posting....you know it takes something to post on here...especially about a situation that did not go well....don't worry about all the guys who will second guess you....it sounds like you handled the situation very well. You would not be the first person that ever let something go down despite knowing it may be the best call...someone else made the call and you dealt with it.....glad you are ok....everything else can be replaced or fixed....even your reputation....even the best of the best have had their close calls and mishaps.

 

[imagineero]

I never said the piece was to heavy for the crane. It was pushing it pretty close though. My concern was a branch would hit the slate roof when it got picked up if he took it in one pick. The crane malfunctioned. I was never in any danger, but under a different situation it could of been deadly.

A

The Boss ask me if I thought it weighed over 3000 lbs, I said it don't weigh over 5000. Because of all the weigh over the house and it being so off balance, I felt it could tilt and a branch hit the slate roof. We decided to take it in two picks. I was in the tree and hooked up the cable, I lowered my self where we decided to make the first cut and he tells me he wants to take the whole thing. It his crane so I come down and start my cut. I was 90% through when it started to set back. He went to move it a little and I guess that's when he realized he may of bite off more then he could handle.

Maybe I totally misunderstood you, but that sounds a whole lot like you overloaded the crane to the point of mechanical failure. If you were well within the capacity of the crane and something sheared for an unrelated reason then I may have misunderstood. Sure as **** sounds like you overloaded it though, unless the fittings to the cylinder just happened to fail for no real reason at the same time.

As far as going up the boom. It wouldn't retract, the turret still worked and we had one chance to lower the boom. If not done right the truck would of been stuck there unable to move. Some one had to check out what the damage was. What was we to do call a helicopter ? Same with the piece on the boom. Couldn't just leave it there. Someone had to do it. I climb and rig for a liven.
I some how have survived doing this for 34 year with out a injury. I do what it takes to get the job done. If in a pinch,you'd be glad I was around. I look after everyone around me. But I'm just an employee when it comes down to it.

There's always another option. As much as I admire the git 'er done attitude, there are plenty of other options available. Sure helicopters are available. So are other cranes, cherry pickers, companies specialising in crane recovery, tow trucks and so on. Kind of a shame to let the guy have to suck that up, but on the other hand maybe that's the lesson he needs. If I ever allowed an employee to climb up the failed boom of a crane I overloaded I expect I'd be looking at huge fines, and probably jail time if he was injured. What kind of ******* lets his employees do that in the first place, or overloads the crane to begin with? Not the kind of guy you want to be working for! I'd do that myself before I'd ever allow an employee to do it, but it really shouldn't be done.

Every time we have a crane failure in this industry, post mortem reveals that the crane was consistently run at or beyond it's safe working load. It seems to be almost a point of pride for tree companies that own cranes to push it as far as they can. They're proud of telling stories like "yeah, we took the pick and one of the outriggers came up off the ground! Quickly boomed 'er in and she settled down just beautiful. Had it right on the edge!". Real crane ops just don't do this. Many tree companies who own cranes seem to think it's fine to load the crane to 95~100% of it's capacity and throw in dynamic loading also, over critical targets with someone's life also on the line in the tree, on a regular basis.... just to achieve a little more production which is probably lost in the extra time the ground guys need to deal with that large pick. Experienced crane ops don't go anywhere near this. When property and life are on the line, they keep the loads well within the capacity of the crane, often no more than 60%. That first pick is going to be very tentative and underrated! Once they've had a taste of it and seen how it is they may push it out to 70~80% at most.

This isn't the first time you've gotten yourself into a spot like this beast, so yeah I'm busting your chops. From memory you've posted a few kinda similar scenario's where you've gone out to contract climb and said before hand that the job was too dangerous, was below your ethics, shouldn't have been done, ground crew were incompetent etc... and a couple times you've come real close. Then occasionally you throw in a 'man I'm done with this industry' kinda thread. You come across as having the sense, experience and judgement to make good calls, but lacking the strength of conviction to stand behind your calls and eventually bowing down to people who clearly shouldn't be making those calls. If you keep on doing this, it's only a matter of time until you are hurt or killed.

You're a good climber, you've got plenty of skill and experience. Put your prices up, and make the decisions yourself. You are at the head, people call you in to climb because they can't do it. They call you because of your superior knowledge and ability. Given that, why would you let them tell you how it is? If they knew how it was, they'd be the one in the tree! I don't ever let anyone call the shots when I'm climbing, I don't even tolerate it for a second. The very moment someone opens their mouth and says "well, what you need to do is..." I say "did you want to do it?" and when they say "oh, I just thought..." I say "do you want to do it?" and when they say no, I tell them "well, how about I do it? And I'm going to do it how I'm going to do it". If they don't like that, they can get in the tree themselves. I'm calling the shots in the tree, I don't care about the dollar value, the client, the tree or the company's reputation. It's my life on the line, and I will be making the judgement calls. Funny enough, they keep calling back and paying my bills.

Shaun

 

[derwoodii]

ah i just deleted wot i wrote twas tryin to have fun be funny but it read poorly sos all

 

[imagineero]

You were pretty quick there, i was just quoting you! We've got an expression like that in Sydney. Something like "I'm ****ing this cat, you're just holding the tail"

 

[derwoodii]

You were pretty quick there, i was just quoting you! We've got an expression like that in Sydney. Something like "I'm ****ing this cat, you're just holding the tail"

Yeah ta thats kinda where i was going but it felt & came out wrong as was typing on borrowed ipad and me not so handy with these gizmos ATM

 

[treesmith]

"It'll be fine" only has to go wrong once

 

[treevet]

why didn't you just simply bring in another crane (sub) and hook it up and lift and detach the kboom and take the $ hit and all is good with less danger to the climber?