It's literally in the manual to put the bucket uphill, and ask any competent operator, bucket uphill
I'll run it how i want, it's my machine, BTW the only times I've ever seen an excavator flip is with the bucket downhill
I need advice on felling large dead oaks
- Thread starter HavinFun
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
I'll run it how i want, it's my machine, BTW the only times I've ever seen an excavator flip is with the bucket downhill
heres an instance where I didn't have a bucket on to push into the ground, as soon as I swung downhill the machine started going over, but was stable as a rock with the boom uphill
this machine isn't a 349, it doesn't have a 50K pound counterweight on it, the boom is the heaviest part of the machine, it MUST be uphill to operate safely
im gonna stick with what Kubota, my dealer, and myself and my own personal experience say about operating my machine, I've got 250 hours so far in it, about 200 of those on hills >30 degrees
heres a mini skid on about a 30 ish degree side hill, id like to note, its rated for ZERO size hill whatsoever, but it can be done, its called having a feel for the machine and knowing how it operates, I've got probably 1500hrs on that mini skid in 2 years doing this and not flipped it yet, actually, I've never flipped a machine over, maybe that means something, since most other people I know have rolled equipment on slopes not even half as steep as what I run on
this machine isn't a 349, it doesn't have a 50K pound counterweight on it, the boom is the heaviest part of the machine, it MUST be uphill to operate safely
im gonna stick with what Kubota, my dealer, and myself and my own personal experience say about operating my machine, I've got 250 hours so far in it, about 200 of those on hills >30 degrees
heres a mini skid on about a 30 ish degree side hill, id like to note, its rated for ZERO size hill whatsoever, but it can be done, its called having a feel for the machine and knowing how it operates, I've got probably 1500hrs on that mini skid in 2 years doing this and not flipped it yet, actually, I've never flipped a machine over, maybe that means something, since most other people I know have rolled equipment on slopes not even half as steep as what I run on
Eh. Someday you might learn.
I've been in these machines since I was 14. So over 50 years.
Yes, the manufacturer tells you to put the bucket uphill. They know you'll slide down the hill first without digging in. They also know that you lose nearly all the down pressure and that when you ski down the hill backward, you are less likely to turn sideways and flip downhill.
Is ok. You can run it how you wish. I never suggested otherwise.
By the way, the slope-picture doesn't count when 1/2 of the slope is done with the camera. This is a lot better:
I've been in these machines since I was 14. So over 50 years.
Yes, the manufacturer tells you to put the bucket uphill. They know you'll slide down the hill first without digging in. They also know that you lose nearly all the down pressure and that when you ski down the hill backward, you are less likely to turn sideways and flip downhill.
Is ok. You can run it how you wish. I never suggested otherwise.
By the way, the slope-picture doesn't count when 1/2 of the slope is done with the camera. This is a lot better:
Bucket uphill or bucket downhill really depends on more than you’ll learn in 200hrs in the seat of a mini. I have around 10k hrs in excavators over the years and am still considered the new guy on certain sites. Machines from a powered scoop shovel to a Cat 339 and everything in between. I hope what you’re doing doesn’t tear the site up or leave you on your side with your $90k mini.
Where’d you find a KX040 for $90k ? They must have seen you coming unless that is a price with a mulcher or trailer or some major accessories……
Where’d you find a KX040 for $90k ? They must have seen you coming unless that is a price with a mulcher or trailer or some major accessories……
Do you have a T870 ? My Bobcat T870 reaches 12’ at the bucket hinge pin. That SVL65 in your pictures lifts a shade under 10’. I’ll push more with the T870 than I can with my 100hp loader tractor even though it lifts an easy 2’ higher. Even the SVL97-2 only lifts a shade over 10’ high so you’ll dump into but not load a triaxle full by any means. Splitting hairs really though at that point
His talent makes up for any shortcomings in the machine specs.
machines 76K, plus tax, insurance for 5 years and interest, worked out to 89K and change
yeah my bad, I do know they are supposed to load a tri axle but I've heard you have to load from a spot with a curb too lol, 12ft with the bucket curled back but you'd never push like that so yeah about 10ft
meh, hard to keep up with literal hundreds of machines
downhill if I have to for some reason, with the blade down, but for tracking up a hill as I was talking about earlier, bucket uphill as often as possible, tracking down hill I will use the bucket as a skate sometimes or if its not quite as steep, uphill for weight
believe it or not, ask about anyone thats seen me operate and im fairly competent, take that how you will, most people don't seem to believe most of what I say here so thats fine, whatever
We don't disbelieve you most of the time. We just aren't sure when you are being credible and when you are living in fantasy land. Myself, I think you are quite the talented fellow, and probably do better than most in areas that require skills and thought.
It's just that you are a bit brash and overconfidant, and often make some unbelievable statements. Like loading tri-axle dump trucks to 12 & 13 feet up with a skid steer. Those of us who have ever tried it know that ain't gonna happen with the average skid steer. As far as that goes, I don't think I've ever seen a dump truck with 13' tall sideboards.
Your claim to not remember the specs for a machine that you own will fall on deaf ears.
It's just that you are a bit brash and overconfidant, and often make some unbelievable statements. Like loading tri-axle dump trucks to 12 & 13 feet up with a skid steer. Those of us who have ever tried it know that ain't gonna happen with the average skid steer. As far as that goes, I don't think I've ever seen a dump truck with 13' tall sideboards.
Your claim to not remember the specs for a machine that you own will fall on deaf ears.
When did I claim to own the skid? Only machine I own is the excavator, boxer, and my other stuff thats not mentioned here
Only skidsteers I've dealt with are rentals, I've ran quite a few but not tried loading a tri axle, I just load a dump trailer with em, no need to load a dump truck for me, but I'm sure I'd probably be using something larger than a skid if I ever go to the point of needing to load a tri axle
Trolling backwards in this thread, I see that you are missing an opportunity. It kind of depends on your personal choice, but I prefer to splice up my own slings out of some heavy duty Tenex. It's very easy to splice, and you can have more versatility in available lengths.
It takes about 10 minutes to splice up an eye in 3/4" Tenex, and the rope only costs 1.65/foot. I pretty much enjoy making them, so it isn't like it is work for me. Some folks whittle, knit, or do other easy tasks when their hands are idle and they got nothing else to do. I'd much rather make some slings.
Now splicing an eye into some double-braid Velocity climbing line? That is work. Stable braid or some other rope not so tightly woven is a lot easier.
I'm sorry. I thought you had mentioned that in your history. I believe I'd have a skid steer or other loader before I bought an excavator, but your business model is considerably different than mine. I really like my Kubota mini-ex, and it has been one of the best machines I ever bought.
Regardless of what you own, pretty much everybody knows how limited those little skid steers are about getting stuff into the truck. I never got a tiny stand-on loader like a Dingo because they couldn't put anything into my trucks, all of which have higher sideboards.
What attachment did you have on your mini-ex in that picture I corrected the slope on? It kinda looks like a universal skid-steer attachment plate, but I've never seen one on an excavator.
I got into a lot of trouble doing that one time. I managed to extract myself from the tough place, but it was definitely a learning experience.
I was working out a row of cottonwood trees that had grown tall and were all prominently leaning over the highway right-of-way fence. Sez I to myself, "it'll be easy to push those leaners back the other way."
Boy was I wrong. If you raise your loader frame up nice and high so as to get the most leverage on your tree, you can change the dynamics of your loader so that the loader pushes up more than it pushes forward. This of course depends upon the length of your wheelbase and the height that your loader reaches.
At the decisive moment, I discovered that my tractor was driving under the leaning tree, compressing the rear tires into the earth while the front end was being lifted up by the rising trunk faster than the tree was being pushed over. This discovery came too late to escape, as my tractor was now trapped under the tree and the trunk was down to hinge wood.
I ended up setting a rope, tying off to a pulley on the guardrail about 80 feet uphill, and then pulling the tree over with another machine.. I pretty much don't ever rely on pushing a tree over since then, unless I know for damned sure that the machine outweighs the tree.
If nothing else, a tied-off tree won't fall on your machine when the plan doesn't work out right.
EDIT: Your machine has a 90 inch wheelbase, and a nice tall 133" height to the bucket pin. Raise that all the way, push hard on a leaning tree, you will have done the same thing that got me in trouble. When your bucket height is greater than your wheel base length, pushing a leaning tree over might cause the point of contact to rise faster than the tree pushes over. All of a sudden, you discover that you are driving under the tree forcefully while you tractor's front end goes up more than the tree does. You are now trapped under the tree, because you won't discover this problem until the trunk has been cut most of the way through.
Perhaps this little sketch will help you see the dilemna I put myself into:
Furthermore, this technique of pushing over a leaning tree can put vastly more force on the hinge wood, because the leaning top is heavier than the trunk beneath your push-point. When that hinge wood breaks, the trunk comes up and the top crashes on your tractor.
Solution: If you feel that you must push it over with the tractor, be sure that you set your bucket low enough to compensate for the rising point on the trunk of the tree as you lift & push it over against the lean. If that lower starting point exceeds the strength of your tractor, try another method.
I think you need to buy a tape measure. Unless you have a completely different machine than you suggested earlier.
ladder
Yeah, because ladders and trees go so well together... ffs...
3/4" is overkill
My 3/8" winch line is 21k.
I prefer a stretchy line over amsteel or any other static line to flop a tree with, especially if you are using a winch. You can pre-load a stretchy rope with what you think is adequate force to do the job at hand, and when the tree proceeds in the right direction, the stretch will keep up with a falling tree, whereas the winch cannot.
Add to that fact that Amsteel melts when it is put under a load while rubbing over a branch. When I got my first chunk of amsteel, I experimented with climbing on it. Using a DRT setup, just my weight going over a branch was causing small friction burns on the rope. It melts at only 300°+. I think more important than the melting point is the "critical temperature" of only 150° F. That is the temperature at which the fibers begin to degrade.
The low operating temperatures and the extreme slickness of the rope inspired me to think it was totally unsuitable for rigging or climbing.
stretchy lines are great for pulling trees over and getting vehicles unstuck if you're by yourself, for a winch line I prefer low or zero stretch since they don't fly as far when broken, BUT, sure is nice having a stretchy rope to put in there when needed (as can be seen in a previous message I left, broke that half inch stablebraid and it flew out under my truck before I even knew it had snapped, glad it didn't go up into the radiator or windshield)
and for fancy rigging like using the GRCS to lift limbs, having stretch allows a lot of wiggle room on pre tension and less shock load on the GRCS itself should the rope pop over a knot on a limb or something
I believe this video here shows using the rope stretch to assist in solo pulling of a tree
The trick is to not break the rope by banging it with an overload.
I had a sugar maple over a house one time that I could see a big advantage to felling it away from the structure rather than just piecing it out over the roof. Of course, that wasn't too easy, since the tree was deeply split and the trunk that leaned over the house was very compromised. I feared that the hinge would be too weak to keep the tree upright during the "pull", and that it might crash sideways, still hitting the house.
So I set up my rollback wrecker on the lot next door, and rigged the steel winch line to a nice long section of stretchy rope, then drew it as tight as I thought safe. Since I had significantly more "pull" than usual, my attachment point to the tree was deliberately lower than usual, so as to gain some speed when pulling the whole tree over. If the hinge failed prematurely, the tree would pivot from the rope's attachment point and fall on the house, kicking the stump outwards towards the tow truck pulling on the line.
Then I made a somewhat shallow face cut a bit higher than the planned back-cut, and followed with a back cut significantly lower than normal. Theoretically, if the hinge wood failed, the top and bottom sections of the hinging section of the trunk would still interlock and my rope would keep pulling the tree over.
It went over exactly as planned, practically sling-shotting the tree into the adjacent lot with the rope's stretching force that I had applied to the tree.
I had a sugar maple over a house one time that I could see a big advantage to felling it away from the structure rather than just piecing it out over the roof. Of course, that wasn't too easy, since the tree was deeply split and the trunk that leaned over the house was very compromised. I feared that the hinge would be too weak to keep the tree upright during the "pull", and that it might crash sideways, still hitting the house.
So I set up my rollback wrecker on the lot next door, and rigged the steel winch line to a nice long section of stretchy rope, then drew it as tight as I thought safe. Since I had significantly more "pull" than usual, my attachment point to the tree was deliberately lower than usual, so as to gain some speed when pulling the whole tree over. If the hinge failed prematurely, the tree would pivot from the rope's attachment point and fall on the house, kicking the stump outwards towards the tow truck pulling on the line.
Then I made a somewhat shallow face cut a bit higher than the planned back-cut, and followed with a back cut significantly lower than normal. Theoretically, if the hinge wood failed, the top and bottom sections of the hinging section of the trunk would still interlock and my rope would keep pulling the tree over.
It went over exactly as planned, practically sling-shotting the tree into the adjacent lot with the rope's stretching force that I had applied to the tree.
I mean, at that point why even flop them, set up a tripod with a camera going and start limbing them out with a wild thing since the ladder's already up in the tree!
NeSurfcaster
ArboristSite Operative
Holy smokes that pic above is ridiculous, all that to save a few grand. Screw chains, cables and ladders. Get half a dozen throw bags, a cube, some throw line and a big shot if need be.
Be careful setting lines in dead trees, many ways to get hurt. Keep your head up... especially on the back cut. Have at least 1 escape route and use it.
Be careful setting lines in dead trees, many ways to get hurt. Keep your head up... especially on the back cut. Have at least 1 escape route and use it.
I used my throw ball and gas-powered winch to disassemble a tree once. It was hanging over a bunch of fences and A/C units, and was too dangerous to climb. After we pulled out the top, there was room to fell it.
Then we discovered the beehive!
Then we discovered the beehive!
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
Want to Sell Husqvarna 338XPT, low compression, nice condition otherwise. 85$ plus shipping- Latest: singinwoodwackr
-
-
-
-
-
-
Looking to get rid of a Poulan 655 In Great Condition message me if interested.
- Latest: danielmorris
