I need advice on felling large dead oaks

[ZinTrees]

eah, not a fan of chain or wire rope at all,

only wire rope and chain I use is winch cable on the bucket truck, and to tie down the excavator or mini skid

my chipper winch has synthetic rope, for many reasons, the truck winch would but I didn't have any left over when I replaced the cable on it last time (and I had about 100ft of literally brand new cable for it from an old project)

pretty much if its something coming in contact with wood, or my hands, synthetic 100%, although my crane slings are probably soon to be switched to chain but not 100% sure I wanna spend the money on that when round slings are $20

 

[Sidecarflip]

Last time I brought a big one down, I just took one of my M9000 Kubota's, raised the bucket up all the way and pushed it over (after cutting through about 3/4 of the way). A 10,000 pound tractor works real well.

 

[ZinTrees]

Last time I brought a big one down, I just took one of my M9000 Kubota's, raised the bucket up all the way and pushed it over (after cutting through about 3/4 of the way). A 10,000 pound tractor works real well.

I had a 14" 60ft oak on a job last month that we tried to push with a 9500 pound bobcat like this, machine spun its tracks, an hour of banging wedges later it still wouldn't go, tie the excavator to it, and finally it went, hinge was thin enough it was cracking and popping trying to go over backwards


I should note, it had very little back lean but 40+ mph wind gusts, one tree across the jobsite snapped off while we were sitting there looking at the job, pushing any sizeable tree isn't gonna go as well as pulling, leverage difference is a big deal, small stuff it works, non windy day with a totally vertical tree I push all the time, but any back lean or wind and it gets a rope

 

[Howsitgoineh]

amsteel (dyneema) is good, I usually just use a rigging line tho, trueblue, stable braid or my favorite so far, 3/4" pelican, don't know the name but its a lowish stretch line with a 25K pound MBS, yet to break it and I've done some wildly stupid stuff with it

View attachment 1162063

View attachment 1162064

Good rope is way stronger than the average person might think. We are often testing the limits of our 1/2" and our 9/16" ropes. They are light and super easy to handle. Never had an issue using them. We work them hard all season and replace when they eventually show signs of wear

The 3/4" only comes out when we need to tackle some real big mean wood

 

[ZinTrees]

Good rope is way stronger than the average person might think. We are often testing the limits of our 1/2" and our 9/16" ropes. They are light and super easy to handle. Never had an issue using them. We work them hard all season and replace when they eventually show signs of wear

The 3/4" only comes out when we need to tackle some real big mean wood

Yeah some good Ole half inch stablebraid or trueblue is hard to beat, but the 3/4 is a must have, I've snapped half inch like it was nothing, ain't broke my 3/4 yet lol

Blue is Half inch, yellow is 3/4, I would like to note, we broke my grcs on that hickory, it was double whip with a natural crotch for friction, the rope was slipping in the grcs, we had to take 5 or 6 wraps around the tree for more friction to make it hold... that 3/4 looked like a 3/8 afterwards



I'd say for the general firewood guy or homeowner, if you need a 3/4" line it's time to call a pro, half inch will do most any tree that a homeowner needs to do lol

 

[ZinTrees]

Pretty much my policy is, general lowering is all half inch, lowering really big wood and any form of machine pulling is done with the 3/4", that's just how we roll tho, to each their own, I like half inch lines a lot since they are light but also hate em for that same reason lol, depends what I'm doing at the time, which is why I've got 200ft of trueblue, a 130ft and 70ft hank of 1/2" stablebraid, and 150ft of 3/4" pelican,

high stretch, low stretch, and super friggen strong, in that order

 

[Sidecarflip]

I suspect the reach on my bucket is a lot higher than a Bobcat would be. At full extension, my reach is almost 13 feet vertical and rolling the bucket back, I can get the cutting edge to close to 14 feet vertical. For me, that is the easiest way to bring them down and it's very controllable as well. Besides, I don't have any ropes long enough to pull them down anyway. Just did a large Mulberry that way actually. That is some heavy wood when green.

 

[ZinTrees]

I suspect the reach on my bucket is a lot higher than a Bobcat would be. At full extension, my reach is almost 13 feet vertical and rolling the bucket back, I can get the cutting edge to close to 14 feet vertical. For me, that is the easiest way to bring them down and it's very controllable as well. Besides, I don't have any ropes long enough to pull them down anyway. Just did a large Mulberry that way actually. That is some heavy wood when green.

The bobcat reaches high enough to load a tri axle dump, 12 or 13ft pretty easy

My excavator reaches about 17 I think, does make pushing a lot easier for sure

 

[Howsitgoineh]

The bobcat reaches high enough to load a tri axle dump, 12 or 13ft pretty easy

My excavator reaches about 17 I think, does make pushing a lot easier for sure

The mini ex was probably the best purchase our company made. It accompanies is to most of our job sites. We use it for pull overs and push overs, skidding logs out of rough terrain, hauling brush, and loading logs. Pulling stuck ropes out of a messy fell, sometimes as a work platform to get a pull rope in the tree.
We've even used it to get a truck unstuck a time or two.
That machine had paid for itself in no time at all

 

[ZinTrees]

The mini ex was probably the best purchase our company made. It accompanies is to most of our job sites. We use it for pull overs and push overs, skidding logs out of rough terrain, hauling brush, and loading logs. Pulling stuck ropes out of a messy fell, sometimes as a work platform to get a pull rope in the tree.
We've even used it to get a truck unstuck a time or two.
That machine had paid for itself in no time at all

Mines made a few years worth of payments in about 15 jobs, $90k for the machine and I dont miss it at all lol

Incredible how little ground damage they can do, mine will fit into 90% of backyards we have here, and they can run on hills no other machine would (atleast tree related equipment like a mini skid or avant, had it on a 35 degree muddy hillside for 2 days last month and it held)


Honestly, my 10k excavator does more work and less damage than my 3k# mini skid, not to mention it has air conditioning lol

 

[woodfarmer]

So where did the OP go? Pictures would be helpful!

 

[ZinTrees]

So where did the OP go? Pictures would be helpful!

still trying to pull a cable up the tree probably

 

[pdqdl]

had it on a 35 degree muddy hillside

I kinda doubt that. That is just a bit shy of a 1:1 slope, and excavators don't hold to those slopes when muddy. You might go down a slope that steep, but you damn sure didn't go up a muddy one at that pitch.

How do you measure a slope?

Many years ago I started measuring slopes so that I could determine safety with various machines. Any slope over 28° (53%) is pretty much irrational to try running on, 'cause your machine will slide off without grousers on your tracks. Bulldozers can work up to 1:1 when conditions are optimal. This is why Corps of Engineer projects seldom exceed 2:1 slope (50%, or 26.6°) Anything steeper than 3:1 won't be found on a highway shoulder or Corps of Engineers dam. ​

https://rechneronline.de/slope/

 

[ZinTrees]

I kinda doubt that. That is just a pinch shy of a 1:1 slope, and excavators don't hold to those slopes when muddy.

How do you measure a slope?

angle finder

35 degree at the bottom, about 5 or 10 at the top, most of the work was at the top but we did have to track in and out of the job from the bottom a few times, straight up the hill, dig the bucket in and pull, use the blade to hold it (although it'd still slide)


did lots and lots of work wit the blade caught on stumps to stop sliding down it

btw, my machines rated to safely operate on a 36* hill, can only work straight uphill or itll go right over tho if the blade isnt down


pictures never really show hills real well, but I had the blade all the way down and the cab was still 10+ degrees out of level
these pics were taken the day before it rained, wasn't very wet at all, after the rain we just slid around, parked the skidsteer and had to drag the ex around with the bucket for the first half of the day as it dried out

this lot was about 200ft from the road to the top of where we were working with an elevation change of about 100ft, getting less and less steep towards the house

 

[pdqdl]

I thought as much. Your average angle finder is wishful thinking. It'll sure tell you when you have lost your mind on a slope, but isn't truly accurate, especially when mounted inside the cab on a machine. You see, that only tells you where the machine is leaning, not what the slope is doing.

I use a survey transit. A 10ft straight 2x4 with an accurate level and a tape measure will work pretty good, too, and you needn't drive down a hill with your machine to discover that you are in trouble, either.

 

[ZinTrees]

Your average angle finder is wishful thinking. It'll sure tell you when you have lost your mind on a slope, but isn't truly accurate, especially when mounted inside the cab on a machine. You see, that only tells you where the machine is leaning, not what the slope is doing.

I use a survey transit. A 10ft straight 2x4 with an accurate level and a tape measure will work pretty good, too, and you needn't drive down a hill with your machine to discover that you are in trouble, either.

my angle finder is a phone app, id use a transit if I had one, it didn't matter for this job as we weren't grading


id rather know the angle the machines at as the tracks settle and roll over roots rather than the average of the slope, and as I was tracking up from the bottom of the hill I was able to stop well before anything went bad, bucket extended uphill as far as possible, tracking slowly, seatbelt on, putting the blade down all the way to work

 

[pdqdl]

Phones are particularly unworthy of being a slope measuring device. I'd love to see your phone and a real slope meter side-by-side on a 2x4. Just like they cannot be trusted as a compass, I don't believe any phones are accurate, either.

May I suggest leaving your blade downhill, your bucket downhill, and back up the hill. It's safer, especially when you start to slide or tip over.

If it's too steep to push up the hill with the 'hoe, you shouldn't be there, regardless of what the damn slope guage says.

 

[ZinTrees]

Phones are particularly unworthy of being a slope measuring device. I'd love to see your phone and a real slope meter side-by-side on a 2x4. Just like they cannot be trusted as a compass, I don't believe any phones are accurate, either.

May I suggest leaving your blade downhill, your bucket downhill, and back up the hill. It's safer, especially when you start to slide or tip over.

If it's too steep to push up the hill with the 'hoe, you shouldn't be there, regardless of what the damn slope guage says.

Bucket uphill always, especially when tracking, blade downhill, you cannot push very hard with the bucket but you can drag the machine by pulling and it gets the weight uphill where you want it

My phone is accurate to within about half a degree, I've checked numerous times, my phones compas is also pretty accurate

 

[pdqdl]

Get on YouTube and see how many excavators you can find going up god-awful slopes with the bucket facing up hill. It doesn't count if it turns into a disaster.

Then compare to the non-disasters with the 'hoe facing downslope.

 

[ZinTrees]

BTW my machines rated on a 36 degree climbing angle, and 27 degree side hill, I've been well psst both these numbers and if operated accordingly can be done fairly safely, only time the bucket goes on the downhill side is to use it as a skate to slide downhill, which I do often but be careful of catching a root or something, that can get expensive fast, also cannot use the boom to hold or pull the machine If you have a grapple on it instead of the bucket (like tomorrow, I won't have the bucket on it)