Longshoreman strike in CA, overseas orders are stuck in transit!

[cgraham1]

We have been told over and over again that it is the workers fault and that their wages is the reason all the work has gone over seas. Workers wages have gone down or been stagnant for years while executive compensation has skyrocketed. We are told we are in a recession yet the stock markets keep on setting new record levels. Many companies are sitting on record levels of cash. Since this recession started companies have had no problem buying out other companies for billions of dollars in cash.

Do a quick search and you'll see that these longshoreman are already well compensated for the work they do. There's far too much greed going on in some of these unions...

[From]... a list of the 10 most overpaid jobs in the U.S., in reverse order, drafted with input from compensation experts:

8) West Coast longshoremen
In early 2002, West Coast ports shut down as the longshoremen's union fought to preserve generous health-care benefits that would make most Americans drool. The union didn't demand much in wage hikes for good reason: Its members already were making a boatload of money.

Next year, West Coast dockworkers will earn an average of $112,000 for handling cargo, according to the Pacific Maritime Association, their employer. Office clerks who log shipping records into computers will earn $136,000. And unionized foremen who oversee the rank-and-file will pull down an average $177,000.

Unlike their East Coast union brethren who compete with non-union ports in the South and Gulf of Mexico, the West Coast stevedores have an ironfisted lock on Pacific ports. Given their rare monopoly, they can disrupt U.S. commerce -- as they did during the FDR years -- and command exorbitant wages, even though their work is more automated and less hazardous than in the days of "On the Waterfront."

 

[Ironworker]

Do a quick search and you'll see that these longshoreman are already well compensated for the work they do. There's far too much greed going on in some of these unions...

[From]... a list of the 10 most overpaid jobs in the U.S., in reverse order, drafted with input from compensation experts:

8) West Coast longshoremen
In early 2002, West Coast ports shut down as the longshoremen's union fought to preserve generous health-care benefits that would make most Americans drool. The union didn't demand much in wage hikes for good reason: Its members already were making a boatload of money.

Next year, West Coast dockworkers will earn an average of $112,000 for handling cargo, according to the Pacific Maritime Association, their employer. Office clerks who log shipping records into computers will earn $136,000. And unionized foremen who oversee the rank-and-file will pull down an average $177,000.

Unlike their East Coast union brethren who compete with non-union ports in the South and Gulf of Mexico, the West Coast stevedores have an ironfisted lock on Pacific ports. Given their rare monopoly, they can disrupt U.S. commerce -- as they did during the FDR years -- and command exorbitant wages, even though their work is more automated and less hazardous than in the days of "On the Waterfront."

The problem is that we live in a society that is conditioned with being happy that they give us crumbs once in a while, that if a man makes a decent living, he is greedy, big corporations, construction companies, shipping companies and factories need skilled labor, but they want to pay us like slaves while they make record profits. I have no problem with a hard working man having a business and making tons of money, that's capitalism and it works, I break my ass making my boss money, I have been with them 16 years and they take care of us. But greed is destroying capitalism not unions.

 

[Ironworker]

Such sophistication, typical of NY. My opinion of unions... as exemplified by my avatar here.

View attachment 406228

Keep thinking like a slave.

 

[Ironworker]

Unions are dying and so is the middle class, wake up.

 

[fordf150]

Longshoremen are in a work slow down while the negotiations are ongoing so their employer cut overtime to avoid paying them double for doing nothing. Average wage is 147k yr with 35k worth of health benefits fully paid. Latest offer from employer was 3% raise every year for the next 5yrs plus an increase in their pension to almost 90k a yr.

My opinion is they are being greedy based on the poor economy that we have. Most regular folks have been happy to take pay cuts just to keep a job but they think their job is never going anywhere so they demand more money. Ports have closed in the past and I wouldn't doubt that the owners of these company's are looking for ways to automate the unloading of ships and eliminate unions altogether.

 

[barneyrb]

I work in a union environment, no I am not in a union but every mill around is. Ya'll don't really want my opinion on them...

 

[Ironworker]

Longshoremen are in a work slow down while the negotiations are ongoing so their employer cut overtime to avoid paying them double for doing nothing. Average wage is 147k yr with 35k worth of health benefits fully paid. Latest offer from employer was 3% raise every year for the next 5yrs plus an increase in their pension to almost 90k a yr.

My opinion is they are being greedy based on the poor economy that we have. Most regular folks have been happy to take pay cuts just to keep a job but they think their job is never going anywhere so they demand more money. Ports have closed in the past and I wouldn't doubt that the owners of these company's are looking for ways to automate the unloading of ships and eliminate unions altogether.

Where are you getting that information.

 

[fordf150]

Where are you getting that information.

http://dailycaller.com/2015/02/04/a-deal-to-break-west-coast-gridlock/

PMA= Pacific Maritime Association=port owners

“PMA’s offer is designed to bring contract negotiations to a close after nearly nine months, and follows three months of severe ILWU slowdowns that have crippled productivity at major West Coast ports,” PMA noted.

“Full-time ILWU workers already earn an average of $147,000 per year, and would see their wages rise roughly 3 percent per year, along with fully paid health care that costs employers $35,000 per worker per year,” PMA detailed. “The maximum ILWU pension would rise to $88,800 per year as part of the proposed five-year contract.”

PMA argues that the offer also meets the union’s two biggest demands. That being the maintenance of their Cadillac health benefits as well as jurisdiction over maintenance and repair of truck chassis.

Additionally, the health plan would feature no worker premiums, no co-pays and no deductibles for in-network benefits.

“Those two issues consumed months of contract talks, and in both cases PMA has offered significant concessions to the ILWU,” PMA added.

 

[treeslayer2003]

at 147,000 i wouldn't say they are middle class any more. shame on them. they may be part of why the middle class is dieing.

 

[Ironworker]

at 147,000 i wouldn't say they are middle class any more. shame on them. they may be part of why the middle class is dieing.

Middle class is dying due to corporate greed and the slimy politicians that their in bed with. Depending on where you live 147 ain't that much. I'm a union Ironworker in NYC and am one of the highest paid in the country and with three kids who have never been on vacation yet these politicians are always on vacation and usually in a vacation home that they own. Wake up people.

 

[fordf150]

I'm not against someone making as much as they can but at some point when you don't have any real skills to offer and the cost of keeping you gets to high a company starts looking at replacing you either through automation or moving offshore.

I'm not sure just how many skills are involved in doing their job but I bet other than the crane operators it isn't very many.

 

[treeslayer2003]

im gonna put this simple and then i'm done with this thread before every one gets their pantys in a bunch. any one making over 100k clear money a year and still complains they are poor are living in a dream world. that is not middle class reality in most of the country. some of us have to turn over 100s of thousands to clear poverty level......think about most folks in agriculture and forestry and construction. some are out of touch with reality, this country is in big trouble.

 

[barneyrb]

My problem with the union is not with the money, it's the structure. When you have a man who enrolls in classes on his own time, learns his craft (makes the effort), and always makes a valiant effort and he can't get promoted ahead of a guy who sleeps on the job (seniority) something is bad wrong. I've seen it way to many times......promote a man or let him EARN a position instead of giving it to a guy who has been working 3 months longer....

 

[mdavlee]

My problem with the union is not with the money, it's the structure. When you have a man who enrolls in classes on his own time, learns his craft (makes the effort), and always makes a valiant effort and he can't get promoted ahead of a guy who sleeps on the job (seniority) something is bad wrong. I've seen it way to many times......promote a man or let him EARN a position instead of giving it to a guy who has been working 3 months longer....

That's the bad thing about some of these unions. The fitters, iron workers, boilermakers, and carpenters are a lot more on skill and quality of the job than the IBEW. There's a lot of these workers breaking $100k each year. Then they spend $2k a month to maintain a place to stay out of town and then keep a residence at home.

 

[barneyrb]

That's the bad thing about some of these unions. The fitters, iron workers, boilermakers, and carpenters are a lot more on skill and quality of the job than the IBEW. There's a lot of these workers breaking $100k each year. Then they spend $2k a month to maintain a place to stay out of town and then keep a residence at home.

Mike, the guys traveling work a lot more than the guys in the mill. A couple of the mills I go in the E&I's have lockers that are better equipped than my first home, I'm talking about DVD players, flat screens, recliners, microwaves, and ac units. These guys will disappear for 2 hours at a time and you can't fire them, makes my stomach turn as to what they are getting away with.

I witnessed a guy open the "E&I free issue" locker and load 2 brown paper bags of aerosol silicone, 88+, contact cleaner, and all sizes of stake on lugs. It don't take much of that stuff to go over $2k....

 

[mdavlee]

Mike, the guys traveling work a lot more than the guys in the mill. A couple of the mills I go in the E&I's have lockers that are better equipped than my first home, I'm talking about DVD players, flat screens, recliners, microwaves, and ac units. These guys will disappear for 2 hours at a time and you can't fire them, makes my stomach turn as to what they are getting away with.

I witnessed a guy open the "E&I free issue" locker and load 2 brown paper bags of aerosol silicone, 88+, contact cleaner, and all sizes of stake on lugs. It don't take much of that stuff to go over $2k....

Wow. I don't see much of that in the plants we're in. They have some nice rooms but us common construction trash can't be in them. I'm not around the electricians much but these places free issue stuff is almost non existent. May have used to been good but not since I've been in this business for 14 years.

 

[Chris-PA]

im gonna put this simple and then i'm done with this thread before every one gets their pantys in a bunch. any one making over 100k clear money a year and still complains they are poor are living in a dream world. that is not middle class reality in most of the country. some of us have to turn over 100s of thousands to clear poverty level......think about most folks in agriculture and forestry and construction. some are out of touch with reality, this country is in big trouble.

And yet look at the money thown at the bankers and the greedy cleptocrats that run this society. Mostly money for nothing, just corruption and theft. Income disparity is more extreme than at any time in the past. I guess all the rest of the folks should be happy with their lot.

A fish rots from the head. Yes it is out of touch with reality and in big trouble.

 

[Carbon Footprint]

This is not a fish this is America.

 

[treeslayer2003]

And yet look at the money thown at the bankers and the greedy cleptocrats that run this society. Mostly money for nothing, just corruption and theft. Income disparity is more extreme than at any time in the past. I guess all the rest of the folks should be happy with their lot.

A fish rots from the head. Yes it is out of touch with reality and in big trouble.

thats a whole nother ball of wax i better not get into.........but yer right.


to you guys in unions; i do not disparage your wages or benefits. if your doing well then i am glad.
what i have a problem with is this going overboard to get more. i saw it ruin a good thing. there is a limit, whether we like it or not.

 

[OnTheRoad]

Do a quick search and you'll see that these longshoreman are already well compensated for the work they do. There's far too much greed going on in some of these unions...

[From]... a list of the 10 most overpaid jobs in the U.S., in reverse order, drafted with input from compensation experts:

8) West Coast longshoremen
In early 2002, West Coast ports shut down as the longshoremen's union fought to preserve generous health-care benefits that would make most Americans drool. The union didn't demand much in wage hikes for good reason: Its members already were making a boatload of money.

Next year, West Coast dockworkers will earn an average of $112,000 for handling cargo, according to the Pacific Maritime Association, their employer. Office clerks who log shipping records into computers will earn $136,000. And unionized foremen who oversee the rank-and-file will pull down an average $177,000.

Unlike their East Coast union brethren who compete with non-union ports in the South and Gulf of Mexico, the West Coast stevedores have an ironfisted lock on Pacific ports. Given their rare monopoly, they can disrupt U.S. commerce -- as they did during the FDR years -- and command exorbitant wages, even though their work is more automated and less hazardous than in the days of "On the Waterfront."

Right. Now, how much money did the port make? Answer: a whole bunch.

See, in highly profitable industries, highly skilled workers are highly sought after. I'm a pipeliner with specialized skills and there is a lot of money in this business. Companies fight over highly qualified employees because we make them a lot of money. Therefore we are paid very well. Hell, unskilled non-union pipeline laborers can make 100k if we are talking gross wages. Most of us talk only about our net, and it would probably shock some people to know how much a well qualified pipeliner can net in a year.

My advice to anybody entering the workforce- really anybody working- is to find a job in a highly profitable field. If the company is pinching pennies so are it's employees. Also, get into a good trade and a good union, unless you like working for less money and living on cat food in retirement. I understand the jealousy that non union workers have toward union guys. I was right there with you for a long time but my jealousy never created resentment or hatred toward my fellow worker who had a better job than I. Like my buddy says "Don't hate me cause you aint me."

FYI one of my buddies is retiring in 18 months. He's 60 and his pension will be 3800 a month and he still gets his SS. Everything he owns is paid off including a nice house and every toy you can name. He has health insurance for life.

Having worked both sides, I can tell you there is no comparison. Union is 10x better for the worker. How many guys on this board are millionaire business owners, anyways?