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Because we don't like the way union operates we are jealous and against the middle class????? Sounds familiar.....where else do I hear that from.
 
Ironworker said:
Middle class is dying due to corporate greed and the slimy politicians that their in bed with. Depending on where you live 147 ain't that much. I'm a union Ironworker in NYC and am one of the highest paid in the country and with three kids who have never been on vacation yet these politicians are always on vacation and usually in a vacation home that they own. Wake up people.
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Maybe if you weren't forced to pay those BS union dues that go to those politicians you could go on that vacation. If those union bosses were so concerned for their underlings they are "protect" them for nothing.
 
fordf150 said:
Because we don't like the way union operates we are jealous and against the middle class????? Sounds familiar.....where else do I hear that from.
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Riddle me this; as a guy who produces the work that makes the corporations millions of dollars, which of the following scenarios makes the most sense for me. Scenario 1: Work in unsafe conditions in a hostile environment for $15 and hour with no retirement and no insurance with no vacation or sick time. Work until you die with nothing to show for it. Scenario 2: Work in professional, safe, compliant environment with qualified co-workers for $35 an hour with fully paid health insurance for me and my family, paid vacation and sick time, and a pension that, above and beyond social security, pays an additional $4,000 a month for the duration of my life, and my spouse after I die.

Yeah, it's that simple.

For those of you who want to work in an unprofessional environment with unqualified people surrounding you for less than half of what I make with no hope of having a secure retirement or a prosperous working career, I guess all I can say is this; you sure showed me.
 
unions you say? not sure about those we are one of those right to work states i feel rich taking home my check weekly from my part time job 140$ per week
i couldn't imagine drawing close to 200,000 per yr.
 
You want to know what the most unsafe job I ever had was? Hauling asphalt with a union company that wouldn't/couldn't fire the worthless flaggers that were either drunk/ high/ drinking/or just didn't care and let cars flow. And couldn't fire the workers that a 5 yr old could out work.

you guys can't see that we or at least me aren't calling out all unions and union workers. But for every good union worker there is one that needs fired and can't be because the union protects them. Or the union that demands more and more money even if it puts the employer out of business(hostess).

I'm out. Not worth arguing over. Not the place for it
 
jakewells said:
unions you say? not sure about those we are one of those right to work states i feel rich taking home my check weekly from my part time job 140$ per week
i couldn't imagine drawing close to 200,000 per yr.
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Yeah, my home state of Missouri is about to destroy the working class by passing "right to starve" legislation. I am hesitant to say what I make in real life and the internet has a way of haunting you so I'm not going to say here either. I will say the figure you posted above is easily attainable in my field.
 
fordf150 said:
You want to know what the most unsafe job I ever had was? Hauling asphalt with a union company that wouldn't/couldn't fire the worthless flaggers that were either drunk/ high/ drinking/or just didn't care and let cars flow. And couldn't fire the workers that a 5 yr old could out work.

you guys can't see that we or at least me aren't calling out all unions and union workers. But for every good union worker there is one that needs fired and can't be because the union protects them. Or the union that demands more and more money even if it puts the employer out of business(hostess).

I'm out. Not worth arguing over. Not the place for it
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If you worked in a union environment where 1/2 the people were incompetent, that's surprising. I have worked both sides and by far the non-union side had more incompetent personnel. It wasn't even close. Maybe 1 in 20 people in the union are morons where 1 in 2 on the non union are in my business. Those guys pushed me to the top which eventually allowed me to get into the union. So to all the non-union morons that I worked with, I say thank you. Thank you very much.

I look forward to having a prosperous working career and a fruitful and enjoyable retirement.
 
o
fordf150 said:
You want to know what the most unsafe job I ever had was? Hauling asphalt with a union company that wouldn't/couldn't fire the worthless flaggers that were either drunk/ high/ drinking/or just didn't care and let cars flow. And couldn't fire the workers that a 5 yr old could out work.

you guys can't see that we or at least me aren't calling out all unions and union workers. But for every good union worker there is one that needs fired and can't be because the union protects them. Or the union that demands more and more money even if it puts the employer out of business(hostess).

I'm out. Not worth arguing over. Not the place for it
Click to expand...
I really wanted to let this die but I see another strawman argument that I can't let go. You wanna talk about Hostess? Find somebody who worked there and get them to explain to you what happened there.

Bad employees can be fired just as easily at a union job as a non union job. You should know that if you worked union for a brief while.

Curious, where would you be today if you had stuck with the union? Compare your current retirement, healthcare, wages, etc of your non union endeavor to what you would have at this point if you had stayed with your union.

I guess I'm just not rich enough to know why so many working class people hate unions.
 
fordf150 said:
I'm not against someone making as much as they can but at some point when you don't have any real skills to offer and the cost of keeping you gets to high a company starts looking at replacing you either through automation or moving offshore.

I'm not sure just how many skills are involved in doing their job but I bet other than the crane operators it isn't very many.
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Sounds good. Since those longshoremen have no skills, go out there and take their job. Sounds like you can do it so go on and get you some. So easy a cave man can do it. Hell, why don't you come out here and take my job? I will get you the interview with my boss.
 
I started working a union job 10 days out of high school. Back then you could make more driving a truck then what we got. Therefore when we went on strike we had a pretty good notion there wouldn't be a line up of replacement workers to take our place. We gained good benefits and wages and despite all the ******** by the owners, the company continued to thrive.
We have slowly given back a lot of what we had. We haven't had a real wage increase in 12 years. Every time we gain in wages, we pay more for health care. Not complaining, just saying. I feel very fortunate to have been able to raise a family on one income. My wife was able to stay at home to be with the children who have all become fine adults.
The economy is now in the shitter and if we hit the streets now there would be 1,000 people to take our place within a week.
I may be wrong but I think when the unions are finally busted, things are going to get really bad.
 
all said and done not me i only make 9100 per year, its hard but i manage i don't have the fancy things in life but that is ok. i wanted to go to school but my grades where not good enough and i couldn't afford it i wanted a good paying job but it is what it is.
i don't know a lot about unions i neither dislike or like that's all im going to say about that because its not my place.
 
I worked for General Dynamics in San Diego, where we made these:
cruise.jpg
And these:
atlas centaur.jpg
as well as a lot of other military stuff.

We had 5 unions there. Actually there were 6, but we engineers voted ourselves out of the union because we no longer wanted to be represented by them. They were rife with corruption and BS. We were far better off without the union and there was never a vote to reinstate them (even though they tried to get one many times). In my 5 years there, I would say that half the union employees there were complete turds and useless. The other half were a mixed bag. There as a standard go slow policy at GD every time there was a union contract being negotiated. So that was once or twice a year with typical 3 year contracts. GD was the largest single employer in San Diego Co. at that time. After the gov't pulled the plug on the defense spending, GD folded up shop in San Diego and the Kearny Mesa plant was torn down. The union jobs were all canned. Most replacement companies there were non-union. Funny thing, the collapse of the union jobs did not end the world in San Diego, any more than it did for us engineers after we voted them out.

Most of the high tech companies in the SF Bay area were non-union. Funny, they worked just fine without any unions as well. They worked far better than GD did in my experience. I have 3 different union cards someplace. I do not give a rat's ass about any of them.
 
treeslayer2003 said:
thats a whole nother ball of wax i better not get into.........but yer right.


to you guys in unions; i do not disparage your wages or benefits. if your doing well then i am glad.
what i have a problem with is this going overboard to get more. i saw it ruin a good thing. there is a limit, whether we like it or not.
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The bad part is if you keep taking it from them then you end up with less and less. The pipefitters lost a big chunk of their retirement with the Enron crap that went on. Nothing to do about it either. Some halls can bank all the extra insurance hours they get. Mine let's us get 4 months and the rest goes to a slush fund. Our insurance is $5.80/hr to maintain. Insurance that I paid for before that wasn't as good was $1100 a month. I make about the same gross yearly but net more since I'm not spending that much out of pocket.
 
barneyrb said:
My problem with the union is not with the money, it's the structure. When you have a man who enrolls in classes on his own time, learns his craft (makes the effort), and always makes a valiant effort and he can't get promoted ahead of a guy who sleeps on the job (seniority) something is bad wrong. I've seen it way to many times......promote a man or let him EARN a position instead of giving it to a guy who has been working 3 months longer....
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How do you know this in a previous post you stated that you are not in a union mill. If you were in a union mill would your opinion of unions change?
 

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