Looking for opinions for heating new house...

[User Name Here]

Hello all, I'm hopefully going to be building a new house within the next 1-2 years and I am trying to figure out the best way to setup my heating system. I am looking for sound advice on how to setup this new house. First off, I need to have a system that my wife does not have to mess with firewood/stoves while I'm not there (out of town). She could do most of it - but I'd rather her not have to worry about it. Second, I'd rather not have to deal with a wood stove in the house, at least for primary heating due to taking space in basement or mess of firewood in the house (at least most of the time - power outages could be exception).

My thoughts are to have an HVAC unit for AC and for when I am out of town in the winter so the wife won't have to fool with wood heat. I am very interested in having an outdoor water stove plumbed into the HVAC unit for heat and also for hot water. I am also thinking of having a fireplace in the living room for looks and also for when power may go out in the winter time to maintain a reasonable temperature in the house.

I am concerned with the plan that I have so far that initial costs may be too high - OWB -$8-10K, HVAC - $6-8K, and fireplace insert - $2-4K. That's a lot of money to get started. Would there be a better/less expensive way to accomplish what I want? In my current house I heat with a wood stove in the basement, which causes for a lot of mess, and it can be difficult to keep the stove going hot enough during the day to heat in the house in the dead of winter (while we're at work etc.) Does anyone use something besides the air handler of HVAC to heat with a water stove?

I've thought on this for a while and have yet to come up with a better solution but I'm open to ideas. I may just have to wait on portions of this setup if I can't make the money work initially. I appreciate any input from folks who may have a similar setup. I am just trying to come up with the most efficient and effective setup that I can while I'm designing our new house - instead of trying to retrofit something at a later date.

 

[NSMaple1]

I would forget about the OWB and go with something heat pumpish (either mini-splits or central unit) and a stove/insert to supplement. Way too much opportunity to build something really easy to heat, building new with current building techniques.

We don't know your heat load though.

 

[muddstopper]

I visited Sparta back in 1974, when my high school football team beat Sparta for the State Championship. A little trivia for you n case you aint as old as me. Anyways, After the swaggering, I'll pass along my thoughts on your subject.

The best way to heat/cool any house is to preserve what is already there, doing so with proper design and insulation. I have been planning my own retirement home for a while now and here are a few of my ideals. I have dabbled in solar for heating water, as well as a heat exchanger on my wood stove. The wood stove ideal works very well in the winter, but not so well in the summer. Solar will work year round, provided you have adequate storage for the hot water on cloudy/stormy days. I have gotten 130*f water from a 2'x2' solar collector mounted on the roof in Dec and Jan. I have seen larger collectors discharge steam. I always figured if I could heat water to steam, I should be able to use some sort of radiant heating system to heat a house. Again, water storage is the key, along with proper design so the water will naturally circulate by convection thru the radiant system without the need for pumps. I should note I guess, that the collectors mounted on the roof use solar powered pumps to circulate the water for the water heaters. Something similar might also be needed to circulate the water thru a radiant heating system. Any such system using solar or heat exchangers should be well thought out before building a new house. Incorporating and retrofitting after the house is built can get costly. I do intend to use a modern hvac system in my planning. I am thinking a energy efficient heat pump, mostly for backup to my wood heat, which is backup for my solar heater. Solar collectors and water storage are reasonably priced and easy to build, and if planned for before building the house, can be hidden from view easy enough.

I currently have a wood stove in my basement, and carrying in wood does leave mess. I built a small cart I roll to the basement door to stack the wood on and then roll back to the stove. This helps a lot with the mess, at least the mess is sort of confined to the door way and is easy to sweep outside. Stoves inside the house I always thought had another drawback besides the mess, and insects, and that is they dont heat the house evenly. Sure the livingroom or den where the stove is located is nice and toasty, but those back bedrooms, not so much. I have been thinking about adding extra ductwork to run from the wood stove area to the back rooms that dont see quite as much heat. I think If I used small duct fans, hooked to thermostats in those back bedrooms, I can suck the cold air out of those rooms and back into the room with the wood stove. This should help circulate heat from the stove area all the way thru the house and back to those colder rooms and even out the heat.

. I also have plans to use a heat exchanger to cool my house in the summer. I have access to a large creek with cold water I plan on pumping thru a heat exchanger to cool the house with. I will be using solar powered water pumps to circulate the water with. Since I wouldnt be trying to heat the house in the summer, I should be able to use the same water storage tanks I use for hot water, to store cold water instead. Circulate the cold water thru the heat exchangers and blow cold air instead of warm air. If I cant pump enough cold water to keep the house cool, then the heat pump can take over. I did install a similar system with a buddy of mine, that only worked half azzed. He tried to cheap out and use irrigation tubing buried in the ground. I trenched in 300ft of the irrigation tubing 2ft deep. His heat exchanger was to small and he could only get a couple of degrees of actual cooled air. The 300 ft of tubing also didnot provide enough area before the soil became saturated with heat. Using a running stream shouldnt have the same problem as any heat exchanged thru the tubing will just flow down stream. This is all kind of just theory, but should work if designed and sized right. It works for geothermal systems that use deep wells, it should work in a stream of cold running water.

 

[Timbercreek]

the best plan isnt heat...its good insulation...like spray foam. make it so the house has very little heat demand.
your in north carolina, depending where, Heat pumps may be all you need.
couple good mini splits and your done. again, more efficient works better, but isnt cheaper to buy. all different levels of mini splits out there.
maybe good insulation, mini splits and a backup woodstove?

the OWB is GREAT for endless heat and hot water. But its work. lotsa work.
i only have one because, the house was already plumbed for it, its a 3800sq old farmhouse, and i have free wood.
probably couldnt afford to keep the house warm without it.
cold windy jan/feb days, ive had 5 out of 6 zones run nearly constant all day long. But, my old farmhouse is 72.
added 2 radiant floors this spring, really helped to get more BTUS into the house, and provide a buffer to even the heat demands out. floor heats all day, carries all night.
without it, boiler runs out of wood 5/6am and the house struggles to regain the loss if the wind is howling
last year doing all my heat and domestic hot water, i burned 9 cord, and i wasnt living in the farmhouse yet. moved in in april.
as far as options to heat the house with wood tie in, you have OWB-water baseboard, OWB-water to air HE at the hvac, and the classic not many have seen, the forced hot air woodstove out in the garage blowing its heat into the house trick...neighbor has a white marble fireplace with 2 6" round flues dumping hot air there.
probably best is the mini splits, and some radiant heat in the floors, even just the basement cement, could use a small insta hot as buffer heat on cold days when ur away, and use a OWB or smaller water coil woodstove when your around. plus water has alot of thermal capacity.

 

[Mustang71]

You can always add the OWB later on. I run a 10 year old Lennox elite with a concord a.c. and don't use the ac much but it's nice when u need it. I use the furnace at night and when I'm not home so that the wife doesn't have to mess with the wood. I have a wood furnace that heats the rest of the time and saves a good amount of propane. I'd suggest a decent 2 stage furnace and a wood stove or nice fireplace for that supplemental heat.

I a good variable speed 2 stage furnace will be efficient and help circulate heat from the fire place around the house and not use much electricity.

 

[Marine5068]

The key will be a good heat system but more so a good envelope for the structure. Most heat is lost by convection. (air loss) and most heat is moved by convection.
So build the house fairly square, put the heaters in center of home and move the air around in a continuous orbit.
Less walls with more open concept is great for better and more even air flow. Also less corners and dormers etc on outside walls.
DC voltage ceiling fans that use 3/4 less energy can really help move heated or cooled air too.
But the most important part of the construction will be sealing the place properly. Pay attention to every corner and cut in the building's envelope. Use lots of sealant along air and vapour barriers to close off any chance of air escaping.
Pay special attention around door and window openings, wrapping and taping Tyvek, sealing gaps, using good doors and windows and placing insulation correctly in cavities.

 

[User Name Here]

I understand that insulation and maintaining heat is important and I'm definitely going to be looking at ways to do that more efficiently. The design of the house is going to be relatively easy to heat. I believe I'm changed my ever evolving plan once more. I believe I am going to forego the fireplace altogether. I'm doing this for a couple reasons - mainly the cost vs. the benefit of the fireplace. As most of you know a regular fireplace is not efficient at all - so one would need an insert of some type. A good insert can range anywhere from $1500-4000. The cost of building a fireplace and chimney would likely be $5-10,000 in my area, perhaps more. And all this for a power outage situation essentially, and for looks. I've decided I'm likely going to take that money and put toward a gas-electric HVAC with OWB and a generator. This way I'm covering all my bases. I've got my OWB - which will keep heating costs month-to-month down and eventually pay for itself, I've got power outages covered, and I've got ease of use for the wife when I'm not around. And with the OWB i have the option of heating another building (shop) in the future fairly easily.

 

[User Name Here]

I have thought of going the solar route before, or perhaps even hydro as there is a small stream in which I may be able to supplement power with. But the truth is I'm not well educated in those systems at all, I know of nowhere to look to learn/acquire such systems, and I'm very comfortable with wood burning. I know that an OWB is a lot of work but I'm used to that, and I'm going to have 3 kids growing old enough before long to help with that. I enjoy cutting wood, I've done it since I was about 6 years old. Most of the time a heat pump would be enough, or I should say would handle the chore, but not efficiently when it gets below 20-30°. Power bills go up drastically with a heat pump once the temp drops down. I know for a fact, my dad has both a heat pump and water stove in his 3400 sqft house. On a cold winter his power bill went from $350-400/month to $120-130/month with the OWB.

 

[NSMaple1]

Mini-split heat pumps are worlds more efficient than traditional ones. Can't compare. They can heat well below 20-30°, efficiently. I think even newer central units are approaching those efficiencies also - so don't be misled by comparing to an older unit, the tech has evolved tremendously the past few years or so.

If the outbuilding is not in the picture right away, for sure, I think I would still not do the OWB now - rather, put in a stainless chimney now and a good wood stove to supplement. Such a chimney is an easy install while building. Can always add an OWB later if the outbuilding comes to be. Or even put an indoor boiler in that outbuilding and run lines from it to the house.

Good luck whatever you end up with though.

 

[muddstopper]

I have thought of going the solar route before, or perhaps even hydro as there is a small stream in which I may be able to supplement power with. But the truth is I'm not well educated in those systems at all, I know of nowhere to look to learn/acquire such systems, and I'm very comfortable with wood burning. I know that an OWB is a lot of work but I'm used to that, and I'm going to have 3 kids growing old enough before long to help with that. I enjoy cutting wood, I've done it since I was about 6 years old. Most of the time a heat pump would be enough, or I should say would handle the chore, but not efficiently when it gets below 20-30°. Power bills go up drastically with a heat pump once the temp drops down. I know for a fact, my dad has both a heat pump and water stove in his 3400 sqft house. On a cold winter his power bill went from $350-400/month to $120-130/month with the OWB.

Going solar isnt that complicated depending on what you are trying to do. Making enough electricity to run a heat pump, water heater and cook stove, as well as lights, can get expensive. I did the research back in the 1990's on using solar to generate enough power to run my then current house. Back then a complete system was going to run around $13000.00. Way out of my price range. Since then, technology has advanced and you can get by with a much simpler system, but price has continued to go up. For someone young that plans on staying in the same house for years, the investment in solar technology might pay off somewhere in the future, but right now, I cant see enough benefit in installing a expensive solar power system. I would probably be dead by the time it paid for itself.

On the other hand, using solar to supplement my grid tied home, makes more sense. when you get down to just you and your spouse, you find power requirements go down. We dont wash near as many loads of clothes as we did when we had kids. Not near as many people taking baths each day. We cook less and eat more leftovers. Not as many dishes to wash. We also dont heat as much area as we keep the extra bedrooms closed off. Heat and air are two of the biggest power hogs. adding a heat exchanger to my wood stove to heat hot water dropped my power bill by average of $50 a month during cold weather. It cost about $50 to put the entire heat exchanger and water storage tank in and pretty much paid for itself the first month. Doesnt do me much good in the summer months, but worth the effort. A simple duct work system to move your wood stove heated air around inside the house can cost as little as $100 a room and that includes the duct work and the duct fans. Easy to do during construction, expensive and dirty work to do as a retrofit.

It seems to me that you are just wanting something to supplement your wood stove when you are away. Solar heat collectors are and inexpensive way to do that. You might just find yourself taking advantage of the collectors when you are at home too. Once in place, they are there, and theres nothing to wear out so they will last for a very long time. Building solar collectors is as simple as building a glass frame and installing loops of tubing. The sun does the rest. Hot water rises and cold water falls when connecting a water storage tank, for a natural convection and circulation of the water in the collector. I dont plan on giving up my wood stove anytime soon, but I can see a time when I might not be able to cut and process my own firewood. Using solar energy should reduce the amount of wood needed to heat my house. Anything you can do to reduce energy cost, whether it is electric power or chainsaws and firewood, just puts money in your pocket. You dont have to go full blown solar panel farming to take advantage of the free energy the sun provides.

You mentioned having a small stream on your property. The one thing I have sort of figured out is that it takes a minimum of 1in stream of water and a fall of at least 10 ft to generate any significant amount of hydro electric power. You can charge a car battery with that much water, but you cant keep a house lit up with it. I have 4in of water and 75ft of fall, I can generate a lot of power, but would still need a pretty large battery system to power a house like it was tied to the grid. Reducing the power you consume is way cheaper than trying to generate all the power you could use.