Looking for Some General Rules of Saw Modding/Building

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Homer6679

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Hey Y'all, Been cruising the site and haven't been able to find a good guide in one spot., just bits and pieces from various members with various forms of proof of improvement if any. I was hoping to find a list similar to the link below:

https://www.svoca.com/forum/forum/s...74-bolt-on-horsepower-or-performance-upgrades
Yes I know it will be difficult to have specifics because every saw is different, however there has to be at least some constant rules that go with every saw.
 
It would be easier to help you if you gave a little more information. Are you looking to modify a specific saw? Are you looking for people who build saws? What kind of modifications are you looking for, just muffler mod, porting etc...?
 
Hey Y'all, Been cruising the site and haven't been able to find a good guide in one spot., just bits and pieces from various members with various forms of proof of improvement if any. I was hoping to find a list similar to the link below:

https://www.svoca.com/forum/forum/s...74-bolt-on-horsepower-or-performance-upgrades
Yes I know it will be difficult to have specifics because every saw is different, however there has to be at least some constant rules that go with every saw.

It's not that easy, there is a reason that 2 stroke porting is a "theory." There are different schools of thought about building saws. I've found what works on one saw might not work well on another. Also builders go down different routes to achieve similar results. Part of the limitation is what tools you have available. I have a lathe, and IMO it's almost necessary to achieve perfect results...if not, you're playing around with a gasket delete that may or may not provide the correct numbers.

Full disclaimer, I don't consider myself a professional or master saw porter. I do port saws on the side, but I consider my current level of experience to be at the level that I finally know there are things I don't know...but I can at least understand the concepts.

For a quick down and dirty...virtually all modern stock saws benefit from a freer flowing exhaust IMO. They are bound by OSHA sound restrictions, and I've yet to find a saw that this isn't the case. The disagreement lies in how open the exhaust should be. Some saws can benefit from a tighter squish band. This can be accomplished via a base gasket delete, but sometimes the delete will make it too tight. IMO, most of the gains are had via freer exhaust and machine work to the cylinder. After that, work on the transfers probably play the most important part for manipulating power...unless the intake or exhaust ports are set up egregiously poor.

If you truly want to learn about port timing, get yourself a saw with plenty of cheap aftermarket top ends available. I cut my teeth on a Stihl 044...I can't tell you how many times I've had that saw torn apart, probably have had a dozen different cylinders on it. It was great to learn on, being the same platform, I could easily notice how different numbers affected the power.
 
It would be easier to help you if you gave a little more information. Are you looking to modify a specific saw? Are you looking for people who build saws? What kind of modifications are you looking for, just muffler mod, porting etc...?

I do have a junker craftsman saw that I am looking to learn on but that is beside the point. I’m more looking for a general consensus on certain aspects of saw modding/building. For instance, if it was going to be in the format of the link provide in the original post it would look something like this:

1) Get your saw in good tune. All OEM parts with no leaks, etc, etc, etc

2) Muffler Mod. (General description/guidance)

3) Porting. (General description/guidance)

The list can go on. I understand that there may be some things that are different for every saw but as sierra rider said “Virtually all modern saws benefit from a freer flowing exhaust.” That is more of the general rules I’m looking for
 
I do have a junker craftsman saw that I am looking to learn on but that is beside the point. I’m more looking for a general consensus on certain aspects of saw modding/building. For instance, if it was going to be in the format of the link provide in the original post it would look something like this:

1) Get your saw in good tune. All OEM parts with no leaks, etc, etc, etc

2) Muffler Mod. (General description/guidance)

3) Porting. (General description/guidance)

The list can go on. I understand that there may be some things that are different for every saw but as sierra rider said “Virtually all modern saws benefit from a freer flowing exhaust.” That is more of the general rules I’m looking for

Best I can say is, obviously have it in a good tune, mechanically sound condition, etc...if all that is done then:

On exhaust mods, the general rule of thumb is to have the exhaust outlet on the muffler to equal about 80% of the exhaust port opening. I do considerably larger openings than 80%, but I have to put restrictive spark arrestor screens in mine, so I aim to equal it out. Minimize the restrictions in the muffler, get rid of deflectors, cats, etc. Some of my saws came with really restrictive mufflers, and just gutting and opening up the muffler has made the run like completely different saws.

Some saws benefit from a timing advance, some don't...I've found my older Stihls benefit and most of my newer saws don't...but that's only a generalization.

As far as porting...I think there really are 2 parts to the equation. First is the actual ports. You can clean stuff up with a dremel as long as you don't change timing...but the gains are going to be minimal, unless the ports were egregiously rough in that particular cylinder. I wouldn't mess with timing until you understand how it affects the power...also get a degree wheel and know how to use it. Too high of an exhaust port, you'll have a really peaky powerband that revs like crazy, too low of an intake, you can end up with a lazy saw that spits fuel back...finding that middle ground is key. IMO, getting the transfer ports correct is possibly the biggest porting gain to be had...it's also a dark art that I don't completely understand.

The 2nd part of the porting, is the machining of the cylinder. If you're working on a clamshell saw like a Craftsmen, there really isn't an easy way to change this...but easily done on a pro saw with mag cases. Squish band is something that can be improved on a lot of saws. I generally shoot for .018-20" range on smaller saws, and the .025-.030" range on my larger 60+cc saws. Base gaskets are generally in the .020" range, so a base gasket delete is possible as long as you have room in the squish for it.

Example: the Echo 2511 I'm currently working on: It has a really wide stock squish of .042"...the base gasket is .020" on the dot. If I deleted it, I'd be at .022" squish+ a few thousandths of Motoseal. So probably in the .026-27" range if I did a delete...not totally ideal for a small cylinder like the 2511, but way better than the stock .042". In this case, I'll actually run a base gasket, so I'll aim for .022" off the base on the cylinder, on my lathe.

Another example, my 201tcm I did: Stock squish band was at .028" range. It has a transfer tunnel that came down and didn't allow me to deck the cylinder without cutting off the tunnel...so I decided to leave the tunnel in place and not cut off the tunnel. If I just did a base gasket delete, I'd be down to .08" squish, which is too tight. So I cut about .015" out of the combustion chamber and did a base gasket delete...with a bit of motoseal, I was right at the .020" mark for squish.

Something to consider about decking the cylinder or doing a gasket delete...you're effectively moving the port timing when you do it. Intake will open sooner, exhaust and transfers will open later. It's usually not much, just a couple degrees, but someting to factor in.

Full disclaimer, I'm just an amateur at this, an educated one, but still learning it myself. If a true porting expert/professional has anything to contradict me, I'm all ears.
 
Sierra, very good write up. Could you further explain how to change timing and typically/generally what each change does? Also what is a squish band?
 
Sierra, very good write up. Could you further explain how to change timing and typically/generally what each change does? Also what is a squish band?
Generally speaking, more exhaust duration(a higher exhaust port) moves the power up in the rpm range. You increase intake duration(lower intake port)to be able to feed increased transfer and exhaust duration. Transfers are important, you want a certain amount of blowdown, which is the degree difference between the exhaust opening after top dead center(ATDC) and transfers opening ATDC. That blowdown is the time for the spent exhaust gasses to leave out the exhaust. Too high of transfers and you can be losing excess fresh fuel/air out the exhaust, too low and it can lead to a peaky/narrow powerband.

Different ways to move the timing. When you cut the squish/combustion chamber and mill the base on a cylinder, all the ports are effectively moving downwards in relation to the bore. This means more intake duration and less transfer and exhaust duration. Timing can also be changed by just grinding the ports with a die grinder.

Squish band is the surface around the outside of the combustion chamber that directs fuel/air mix into the center of the combustion chamber as the piston nears TDC. A tighter squish band(distance between the squish band and the piston at TDC) can help fight detonation in a high compression motor.

You can see the shiny part of the head is the squish band and directs the charge towards the spark plug:
20220731_193138.jpg.77e9f0a2d782e9445e1230e9a7c87bef.jpg
 

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