Ma and Pop shops

[THALL10326]

$395 and many years of GOOD PROMPT service sounds like a GREAT deal to me!

Attitude like that, $375.00 and take it home ole feller. When it comes to wanting discounts attitude plays a big role. Come in jolly and happy, go home jolly and happy with a discount. Come in grumpy, go home mad as hell,LOL

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

But thet NEVER drop the price even more because you are a "good" customer. do they? Their price is the SAME for everyone, no matter how much milk they have ever bought.

Ah, yes, that does make your point.


Hey, be glad you're in America where dickering over price is the exception. Outside of the 'western' nations, dickering over price is EXPECTED.

 

[THALL10326]

Congratulations on the sale Thal. You see, Home Depot doesn't want the niche filled by you. Home Depot caters to the weekend warrior/do it yourselfer. You know, the kind of guy who doesn't give a rat's ass about what saw they're buying, so long as it will cut up their 5 limbs that are in their way, and is cheap. Although I work in the plumbing department, I've sent customers to smaller mom and pop places when they have what we don't carry. The only dealers losing out to box stores are the ones living on borrowed time to begin with.

Well I will agree to disagree with ya Space. This man this morning did give and fat rats behind and he wised up and solved the HD problem of no service for good. He's one of mine now and you know what that means, more for me and less for HD,lolol.

Ya know Space I got no issues with HD but you would think they could at least help load big bulky items instead of watching. Fact is I paid full list for the tool cabinet. I don't ask for discounts period. I come from old school, if ya want something buy it, simple as that. That man who was sitting his azz watching me and another customer load that big cabinet wouldn't last one day where I work, MA and PA would have fired his azz on the spot.

 

[Marco]

Just put your OPE in a huge vending machine, problem solved. Bolt it down good.

 

[THALL10326]

Sorry I really don't mean to pick on you, I get your point about the box store sells product that they don't service but part of that issue is the consumers fault too. When you buy anything be it a saw, a truck, a TV, anything you need to concider what will hapen if I need to fix it and make sure you have a place near by that will fix it.

If he would have walked in with a stihl instead of an Echo saw I am sure you could have fixed it yourself or if he walked in with a Husky you could have pointed him to the nearest husky dealer or maybe even fixed the problem.

Just a question if you are a saw shop that does repairs why couldn't you order the parts and fix his saw, instead of turning around and saying you screwed no one has parts for those saws. I would hope a good saw shop would try to HELP me and fix my saws instead of trying to sell me a new saw. I know my local Hisky dealer has worked on my eager beaver saw and my dads stihl saw, yes he did not have parts in stock but he ordered them and fixed the saws.

The whole he did not ask for a cent off, that was his fault hell if I was buying two saws from you I would expect some discount, even if it was just a token discount of a few%. Even on some small stihl saws I am sure you made a few bucks on the sale, I agree if the customer does not ask you do not offer. But that is a case where I do not think asking for a discount is unreasonable.


spike60, nice job helping the guy out with his simply to fix problem that is how you earn a customer, I am sure he will do more bussiness with you. That is what a ma & Pa shop offer that you do not get at a box store, now to get back to the orginal question of this thread what is that worth? Are you willing to pay 5% more at the local Ma and Pa VS the box store for that type of service, how about 10% more what is that extra "stuff" (know how, service, parts, helpful, etc) worth?

BlueRidgeMark great idea with the car dealer, but now walk in with a the full price of the car in cash and see how low you can really get a car for. I got my truck for $8k less than sticker, first the dealer took off $2K, then he talked to his boss and took off $4K said that is the best he could do, it was a steal at that price. I stopped by his bosses office on my way out the door said I have $23K in my pocket in cash and I will buy the truck today for that amount, he said we had a deal.

Well Judge we're a Stihl dealer, not a Mac dealer or Echo dealer. If Mac and Echo won't take care of their customers why should Stihl? I can't order parts for those saws if I wanted to, not that I do. we deal in Stihl only. We sell Stihl, not Mac, not Echo, its Macs job and Echo's job to stand behind their products, not Stihl's job. Blame the parts issue on the maker who apparently doesn't care whether the retailer has parts or not. I will sharpen chains, do minor repairs and adjustments on all saws but parts no, we're not searching the net for them. Not worth our time nor the customers as you can see from what happened when the man tossed the problems and bought 2 new Stihls.

As for giving the man a discount he never asked and I never offered. Had he I would have worked him a deal. He seem over joyed just knowing where to come from now on and get some service, maybe to him thats worth more than a discount. I treated him good, never knocked his other saws. I merely told him the truth about no parts around town for them and nothing more. He seemed very happy when he left. I think I took real good care of my new customer...

 

[Wes]

No ma, just a Pa at my shop

When I bought my last Stihl, it was sitting there on a shelf, the sales dude and I looked at it and took it apart, talked about options greater and smaller, and then he took it to the shop, gassed it up and topped off the bar oil, and fired it up. He showed me how NOT to booger up the spring in the choke lever (pull the throttle first) and I went home with a saw. No way I would make that kind of investment at a big box where I was buying a sealed box with a big sticker on the side that said DO NOT RETURN TO STORE.

BTW, you can't compare items like milk and trucks to chainsaws. You don't haggle over low-priced commodities like milk and gas (how much $$ do you spend every year on fuel without a whimper) and you ALWAYS haggle on large spends like trucks, real estate, etc.

W

 

[gasman]

Call me crazy but the reason I try to buy from a real dealer is for the atmosphere and service. Why would I want to spoil a relationship to save $20? It's fine I to ask for a little discount if you are nice about, I suppose.
My last saw I just smiled and said fine, when he told me the MSRP. He gave me a file and bottle of oil without me asking for it when I was packing up to leave. I guess we were both happy.

 

[spacemule]

Well I will agree to disagree with ya Space. This man this morning did give and fat rats behind and he wised up and solved the HD problem of no service for good. He's one of mine now and you know what that means, more for me and less for HD,lolol.

Ya know Space I got no issues with HD but you would think they could at least help load big bulky items instead of watching. Fact is I paid full list for the tool cabinet. I don't ask for discounts period. I come from old school, if ya want something buy it, simple as that. That man who was sitting his azz watching me and another customer load that big cabinet wouldn't last one day where I work, MA and PA would have fired his azz on the spot.

Service varies from store to store just like anywhere else. Another thing you have to remember is the sheer volume of customers that come through a box store. I'm sure if you'd have asked the guy, he would have helped you. He might not have even noticed you were needing help--it's easy for some to let their thoughts wander in a place like HD.

Also, I'll mention that you'd be surprised how much a simple "thanks" will make in the service you get. As you know, there are a lot of rude customers around. HD employees do not have the same leeway for telling rude customers to screw off that small proprietors do. I'm not accusing you of being rude, but I have seen several employees become jaded in the light of treatment they get from customers. There is a common attitude among people that retail employees are of lower intelligence than the customer simply because they're working in retail. Sit back and consider the common statements you hear on forums such as this and ask yourself if they don't reflect this attitude.

 

[stihltech]

ma and pa

OK, I have worked in one of those ma and pa shops since 1981. The only people I have ever seen get a discount are the repeat customers that buy a saw every year, usually a 460 or larger.
We never treat a good customer bad, only a bad customer. You know the one, they might buy a saw there, then they will OWN you for life. Repairs should be free, you "just worked on it", five years ago, and without a discount, they cannot buy from you. Tell us you can buy it cheaper elsewhere, and we say, Sounds like a real good price, I would buy it there. Please get it serviced there also.
Man, what a bunch of jerks we are! To a jerk, that is.
But, to a good customer, we will
Discount any multiple chain purchases
Discount other supplies
Fix the easy stuff for nothing
Give a loaner saw
Fix their saw first
Ask for warranty if it is warranted, even if it is over time
Deliver a part or supply, saws stay in the shop
Find a good used part
Give a free estimate
Fix your off brand saw
Fix your buddie's saw
Explain how you can fix it to save money
Hold a new saw, without a down payment
Hold a nice used saw, because we know you want it,
Only go so far in repairs before calling you,
Fix other things we find, because we know you will thank us for it,
Stay after closing time for you,
and a few other things I can't remember

NOW, if you can get all that at a place that will discount the saw price, then by all means buy it there. And please get it serviced there also.

And, by the way, business has never been better.

 

[spacemule]

Stihltech, you jerk!!

 

[THALL10326]

Service varies from store to store just like anywhere else. Another thing you have to remember is the sheer volume of customers that come through a box store. I'm sure if you'd have asked the guy, he would have helped you. He might not have even noticed you were needing help--it's easy for some to let their thoughts wander in a place like HD.

Also, I'll mention that you'd be surprised how much a simple "thanks" will make in the service you get. As you know, there are a lot of rude customers around. HD employees do not have the same leeway for telling rude customers to screw off that small proprietors do. I'm not accusing you of being rude, but I have seen several employees become jaded in the light of treatment they get from customers. There is a common attitude among people that retail employees are of lower intelligence than the customer simply because they're working in retail. Sit back and consider the common statements you hear on forums such as this and ask yourself if they don't reflect this attitude.

I know what your saying Space, I got no bones with any employee no matter what their job, all work is honorable. That lil bast--d sitting on the lift that day was looking right at me and the customer and never lifted a finger. A good man such as yours truely would have jumped off that lift without being asked and helped out. Don't worry though I still go over there from time to time buying odds and in's, I don't hold a grudge. I do however look for that lil bast--d everytime I go overthere,LOL

 

[THALL10326]

OK, I have worked in one of those ma and pa shops since 1981. The only people I have ever seen get a discount are the repeat customers that buy a saw every year, usually a 460 or larger.
We never treat a good customer bad, only a bad customer. You know the one, they might buy a saw there, then they will OWN you for life. Repairs should be free, you "just worked on it", five years ago, and without a discount, they cannot buy from you. Tell us you can buy it cheaper elsewhere, and we say, Sounds like a real good price, I would buy it there. Please get it serviced there also.
Man, what a bunch of jerks we are! To a jerk, that is.
But, to a good customer, we will
Discount any multiple chain purchases
Discount other supplies
Fix the easy stuff for nothing
Give a loaner saw
Fix their saw first
Ask for warranty if it is warranted, even if it is over time
Deliver a part or supply, saws stay in the shop
Find a good used part
Give a free estimate
Fix your off brand saw
Fix your buddie's saw
Explain how you can fix it to save money
Hold a new saw, without a down payment
Hold a nice used saw, because we know you want it,
Only go so far in repairs before calling you,
Fix other things we find, because we know you will thank us for it,
Stay after closing time for you,
and a few other things I can't remember

NOW, if you can get all that at a place that will discount the saw price, then by all means buy it there. And please get it serviced there also.

And, by the way, business has never been better.

Dayummmmmmmmmm thats gotta be a Stihl dealer, good job!!!!!!

 

[rahtreelimbs]

I can't understand someone asking for $100 off of a $400 saw!!!

I mean............these shop owners have lives to maintain too!!!

But then that is just me!!!

 

[sedanman]

You should hear some of the replies I get when I turn it around on the buyers, ask how would they feel if offered 80 percent of the price they quoted to mow my lawn or pave my driveway etc.,etc.,etc. The look at me like I'm nuts to cheapen the value of their labor. Fair is fair. If you can take money out of my pocket, I can do it to you.

 

[Lakeside53]

Most bussiness models say it takes about an 8% mark up on average get to break even (the cost of running the business) so an 18% mark up if fair. On a $500 saw after the cost of business (8%) you make a 10% profit or about $50. So I agree not much room to discount a saw. On the saws with a 23% mark up there could be some room but that is how sales work you have to mark some items up to cover the items you have very small mark ups on.

While I don't own a stihl that seem very fair, things much be much different with husky since it is easy to find 15% to 20% difference in prices so there much be a larger mark up or some shops get much better prices than other shops from Husky.

That business model (8%) just doesn't apply to a Stihl OPE store (not one that's a back room of an ACE Hardware, part of an Equipment Rental company or Napa Store). It assumes a sale volume sufficient to make those numbers! Let's assume I buy $400k of equipment from Stihl a year. We have reasonably low overheads and run a tight shop... but 8% of sales barely covers the cost of one underpaid employee, and that unit purchase volume would be in the upper 25% of Stihl dealers by sales volume.. so pity the 75%.

Unit sales keep the lights on, pays rent and the employees. In January and February, the heat needs to be on on low... The service work makes it worth while, but even that isn't all gravy.

 

[spike60]

Markup % is only part of the story, and often not as big a part as many people seem to believe. We make about 100% on spark plugs, but Lord only knows how many spark plugs we'd have to sell to pay the rent. And the rent has to be paid with "$" not "%".

% is just a portion of the selling price. Which is why I mentioned in an earlier post that we really make our living with the big ticket items. You CAN'T make a living just selling the lower price point/consumer hand held equipment. The profit in the handheld business, wholegood unit wise, comes from the more expensive pro saws and backpack blowers. And a shop has to move big unit numbers in order to generate significant dollars.The other profit is from parts and service and, particularly with saws, accessories such as bars and chains.

So, if you decide not to buy from your local dealer to save a few bucks, that's your choice to make. But you should at least understand why you may get a cool reception from that dealer if you ask him to work on the saw. One thing that frosts many dealers is that we have made a commitment and an investment in parts, training, personel, and a facility to service the products we sell. That is the competitive advantage that we have over the box stores and web sites. Those sellers in a sense, get a free ride by not making those investments. As I mentioned in some earlier posts in this thread, it is not in my interests to "fill in the blanks" in the mass-retail sales channel. You may not agree with my reasoning, but at least understand where I and other dealers are coming from.

Further, comparing the selling of chainsaws with the sale of a gallon of milk, ($3 and change?), and $30,000 vehicles fails to illustrate anything relevent to this discussion. The similarities are few and the differances are many between those businesses.

One sentiment that I always find interesting, not that I'm looking to defend car dealers, is that people are content to pay $30,000 for a vehicle if the manufacturer is getting $29,700 and the dealer is getting $300, but if the manufacturer is getting $28,000 and the dealer is getting $2000; "Oh my God! I got raped! He shouldn't make that kind of money! What a crook!" Human nature I suppose.

This thread is actually quite a bit of fun. Lot's of valid points from many posters. I wish that many of you were my customers, but I'm also glad that a few of you aren't.

 

[Uwharrie]

I applaud anyone who sells only chainsaws and is able to stay in business, it has to be a well run tight ship. The margins are tight and we have so many variables to deal with, such as the weather, price increases and customers who demand us to absorb the increase. Increasing overhead, employees, building rent or up keep as well as increased competition by many manufacturers to sell their products at the no so discount stores ( their pricing is not less than your dealers, don't let anyone fool you). If you look at the value a dealer gives and you really knew the facts about his business, you would buy from him. There are some dealers that charge too much but I guess you could use that argument against these stores that lure you in and offer NO SERVICE and charge in my area higher prices than I sell my saws for. Would you never go back in that so called discount store because they were $60.00 higher than my store and go tell everyone how high they are. Most of you would not, but flip it around and let me be $60.00 higher than them on a Husqvarna 359 and you will tell everybody. WE the dealers have a image problem and it's not our prices but your assumption of them. We all think that big store is cheaper, right, as they don't have any overhead. They make more profit than we do yet they have managed to convince the public they don't make any money. WOW how smart do you have to be to look at their stores and see that they spend money on selling and they do not spend money on customer service? When's the last time you walked in a big box and they sharpened your chain while you waited and offered you something to drink or treated you with respect. This could take days, I'll have to continue another time. Tony

 

[spacemule]

I don't want something to drink or respect, I want my damn saw for a good price in a punctual manner. :hmm3grin2orange:

Customer service is really an interesting issue. Sure, we all get huffy and complain about poor customer service, but the box stores continue to grow. My particularlar favorites are the customers who come in about once a week and are upset because they have to wait five minutes while you help another customer or you don't have the pinkly shaded orange self-battery changing widgets made for changing batteries that the other places have. They will storm off huffily saying "Fine!! I'm going to Lowe's!! I'm not ever setting foot in here again!!" Then they'll glare at you while you smile politely and wish them a nice day, and as soon as they're gone you say to yourself "See ya next week arsehole!"

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

One sentiment that I always find interesting, not that I'm looking to defend car dealers, is that people are content to pay $30,000 for a vehicle if the manufacturer is getting $29,700 and the dealer is getting $300, but if the manufacturer is getting $28,000 and the dealer is getting $2000; "Oh my God! I got raped! He shouldn't make that kind of money! What a crook!" Human nature I suppose.

That is a weird one. Human nature indeed - ignorance combined with jealousy. It shouldn't matter to the buyer one whit how much money the dealer made. The only thing that should count is whether or not I was able to get what I want at a price that I'm willing to pay*. As long as the market is open and honest (no collusion, no price fixing, no monopolies), competition will make sure that a fair deal is available to me somewhere.

If I'm too stupid or lazy to dig out that fair deal, that's my problem.






*Obviously, if I can find out what the dealer's markup is, I have a negotiating advantage, but that's a different matter.

 

[ciscoguy01]

Eh

All, I see good and bad with both. Hate to say it, but there is good and bad with both. I myself prefer ma and pop because I like the friendly people, the hometown way about going in to shoot the ****, or how they explain exactly what's wrong and how you could fix your problem should you decide you'd like to give'r a try. Most of the time their stock is better, or if they don't have it, they'll get it overnight. Go to Tractor supply and try to get a bar for an old Stihl, WON'T HAPPEN. They have in stock what they have and usually can't order anything else. Same with all the others. The bad point is a return, most of the time if you buy a saw, say you use it for a day or 2 and decide it's too small, your prolly not going to take it back unless you buy a bigger saw. Not always, but sometimes. What are they going to do with a used saw? Can't sell it for new. Big box stores just return them, no questions asked. Then again, you can't buy any decent saws in those places. I'll stick with ma and pop, they usually make sure your taken care of, and I'll do the same for them...