metal lathe?? Is it useful for saw work?

[parrisw]

Would a metal lathe be useful for saw work. Maybe I'm just looking for an excuse to buy one. It has a 12" bed

 

[Lakeside53]

It's just plain "useful"... but yes, you can use it for saws. I just made a set of bearing pushers that gets around pushing on the oil pump for a fit (not the stihl way, but works much better!), and a quite a few other small tools... Pop-up pistons? Cylinder machining... not my style, but...

Careful in what you buy - there is some real junk out there... Before you buy a lathe.. first you need to figure you what you are going to use it for... and that determines size, precision, TOOLING.... then and $$$, and like CAD, there's M[achining]AD.... but unlike messing with saws you can learn a very useful set of new skills, which you will then take back to the saws CAD becomes MAD..


so.. 12 inch bed? that would be for making jewelry.. Do you mean 12 inch SWING?



Here's mine....EMCO V10P with mill. Used - about $1500-$2000. I'm turning a 2hp 3 phase rotor down for another use.

and here's what it ended up like (keyway cut on the lathe mill). The new shaft is 0.7495- on the button (and I nearly blew it!).

Here's what I want:

http://www.haascnc.com/details_LATHE.asp?ID=310#TL

 

[timberwolf]

Yes, usefull!

But if your talking 7x12 inch lathes, their a lot on the small side, even for saw sized work.

 

[parrisw]

Ya, I was wondering about the size, its 12" between the jaw and the end, I guess its 12" working length. Thing is I can't afford a big boy. I'd love to have one that big, but not at this point.

 

[parrisw]

This is what I was looking at.

 

[Lakeside53]

Yep... small... and light weight - meaning not rigid. For aluminum and small soft steel, it would be o.k.,, but for saws etc? limited.

I'd suggest you buy used... carefully...

I first bought a Jet 9x20 ($700 with tooling)... A few months later I sold it once I figured out that it wasn't going to work for me. The rotor above would have been quite difficult on my 9x20.

The 9x20 lathes, like the 7x12 have big user groups (many forums) and are great "starter" lathes. Some find they are quite sufficient for what they do, and that's O.K. too..

I now find I need two lathes -My V10P and a (TBD) 17X40 with a 2 inch (through) spindle... but... I'll make do on the smaller one for a long time...

 

[parrisw]

Yep... small... and light weight - meaning not rigid. For aluminum and small soft steel, it would be o.k.,, but for saws etc? limited.

I'd suggest you buy used... carefully...

I first bought a Jet 9x20 ($700 with tooling)... A few months later I sold it once I figured out that it wasn't going to work for me. The rotor above would have been quite difficult on my 9x20.

The 9x20 lathes, like the 7x12 have big user groups and are great "starter" lathes. Some find they are quite sufficient for what they do, and that's O.K. too..

I now find I need two lathes -My V10P and a (TBD) 17X40 with a 2 inch (through) spindle... but... I'll make do on the smaller one for a long time...

Hmm good points. Maybe I'll hold off for now until I can afford something bigger. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Lakeside53]

Too late! you've already decided you want one... now it's just a matter of price.:greenchainsaw:


Oh, and I forgot... Cutting metal is fine, but you need to be able to measure it... more $$$, but craigslist is your friend...

 

[parrisw]

Too late! you've already decided you want one... now it's just a matter of price.:greenchainsaw:


Oh, and I forgot... Cutting metal is fine, but you need to be able to measure it... more $$$, but craigslist is your friend...

Ya, I know. I'm still contemplating buying that small one to start. Then I will always have a small one, and get a big one in the future. Measuring tools, I have a dial indicator, vernier calipers x3, micrometers as well.

 

[Lakeside53]

Here's an extract from an email - by a machinist friend of mine (Mark) answering a similar inquiry as yours... The recipient was contempating buying a 10x22 Grizzley to make bicycle parts. Some of the observations may be of interest, as are some of the links

>>>>>

The Griz should be fine for a utility lathe and as a
machine to learn on. The shortcomings for that lathe
will be when you try to learn to cut threads. The
slowest spindle speed is 150 which can make it tougher
to learn to thread the coarser thread pitches. Another
thing is the threaded spindle will make it tough to do
anything that requires running the lathe in reverse,
some people like to use a cutoff blade on the backside
with the lathe running backwards and some people like
to cut left hand threads with the spindle running
backwards and the tool upside down or on the backside.
I also have to agree with Bob that the 1" spindle
bore can be too small. You can never have a big enough
spindle bore it seems like. My lathe has 2.3" and I
find that too small too often, I had to turn down a
good job last week because of it.

Also remember that just because the lathe says it
will swing 10" in reality it wont if you do the math.
Lets say you have a 9" diameter piece of 1018 steel
you want to turn with a HSS tool. If you use 100 SFM
then you would need to turn that at 42RPM which that
lathe wont do. If you do the math about the largest
piece of 1018 you can turn at 100 SFM is 2.5", 4130
would be even smaller diameter. So then you say I can
just use carbide but if you do the HP math there
probably isn't enough HP there for the carbide
depending on what you use. As Andy said you might be
able to use the TT inserts. I would recommend HSS
tooling for that lathe but also a set of the TT
carbide insert tools too. Part of running a lathe is
knowing how to grind HSS tooling properly. You will
need to do it at some point even if you do have insert
tooling.

I don't want to discourage you from that lathe I just
want you to know the limitations. Many people see the
size specs and assume they can max it out.

I know money and space are factors but definitely look
at all your options. Also remember that the lathe will
be useless without tooling and tooling can cost as
much or more than the lathe.

Like I said you should come by and spend some time on
the lathes before you make a decision.

Here is another option that gives you variable speed
and a little larger work envelope,
http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM1127.html
The problem with that one is when you slow it down you
loose HP which isn't good for large diameter stuff
where you need the most HP. You might also look at
some of their other lathes,
http://www.machinetoolonline.com/NewlatheIndex.html

If I was going to buy the 10X22 this is the one I
would buy,
http://www.syilamerica.com/product_C6.asp
But that's just me, I like CNC.

This is one of the machines I have,
http://www.combitech.com.tw/luxmatter/lux1340g.htm
This is another,
http://www.haascnc.com/details_LATHE.asp?ID=310#CNCLatheTreeModel

 

[huskydave]

100sfm? you can go much higher with highspeed steel but the toolbit will wear quicker. The cobalt toolbits would be a better choice and numbers by math and what a machine can do are two different things. That lathe would struggle with 9" dia anything. I would look for a machine with a lot of gearing options. The most important speeds to me are 60-90rpm 250-350rpm 500-700rpm Those are the speeds that are most useful. I agree that the threaded spindle nose is not the best option either. If I was buying a tabletop I would buy an Emco.

Depth of cut feedrate rpm and how rigid a machine are all work together and you can always compensate one or more things to help a weaker machine perform better.

 

[Lakeside53]

I mistyped -it was a 10x22 they were discussing.

The Emco V10's are nice, but parts are almost impossible to find (so don't break anything important!) Mine's a long bed (10x25) gear driven (60 to 2500) with power crossfeed. Nice, accurate (even has class 7 spindle bearings). Only a 0.66hp motor and imperial threading only though..... So relatively light weight, but high quality (Austrian). Mine's also a threaded spindle nose (three differnet noses over time), but it has lock.


Yesterday was turning some nasty tough stuff at 490 SFM.... (1250 though to 2500 rpm).... big blue swirls... but with carbide. No idea what the "steel" was, but it wasn't nice to HSS, even M42, and required the high SFM to get a decent surface finish... Part of the problem with getting aerospace table drops is that you're never really sure what your getting! but free is free. I had to do some internal boring on the same metal with a HSS bar, and it was miserably slow... 80-100 sfm, and fine cuts.

On the other hand, I also turned some 12L14... lolol... like butter.

I have soooo much to learn...

 

[Stihl 041S]

If you get a real deal on a small lathe it can always be used later for polishing or lapping. Or for getting close to your work, I don't like cuddling up to 40 hp and 30 lb jaws on an 18 inch chuck. Small lathes are nice to sit down to for small work.
if buying big, pay someone to check it out, you can not beleive the cost of repairs.

 

[Stihl 041S]

Practicalmachinist.com

Go join but do not say hobby or china too loud. The site for machining. Lots of hobby forums too.
Let me know the lathe you get, I'll send some tooling to the noobee.
Good luck.
Rob

 

[RiverRat2]

If you get a real deal on a small lathe it can always be used later for polishing or lapping. Or for getting close to your work, I don't like cuddling up to 40 hp and 30 lb jaws on an 18 inch chuck. Small lathes are nice to sit down to for small work.
if buying big, pay someone to check it out, you can not beleive the cost of repairs.

Yep on repair cost!!!! we just picked up an Axelson 16" chuck machine 72" bed,,,, got it for well under 5K because the 10 HP 3 phase motor was making noise,,,, had to remove the motor and sent it to the motor shop for evaluation the windings were fine but the leads had to be replaced and new bearings, cleaned windings dipped and baked as well whilst it was scatterd,,,,,, $1,100.00 later it sounds great now,,, still well under 5 total price, took a chance cause the problem could have been in the headstock, Whew!!!! this time we got lucky!!!!!

But the answer about a lathe is yes,,,, can be useful for saw work,,,, If you want to deck cylinders or radius pistons you may have to build some jigs to swing you cylinders of choice but as stated before you will tie up just as much or more in tooling and measuring equipment,,,, you finished work will only be as good as your measurments/setups/tool quality allow,,, get a few junk saws to practice on before you go to shredding aluminum on perfectly good saw parts!!!!!! LOL!!!!

 

[foxeye]

In all the years I have played with chainsaws, and have had a metal lathe or access to one initially there is not one itme that I canthink of that the lathe proved to be needed to do something. I never had to make or improvise tools to repair a saw like someone mentined earlier, but I do see that as a use but odds are you can buy what you need to repair the saw quicker and easier than making it. HOWEVER..as already mentioned yet again, a lathe is one handy item to have as long as you tinker with things. I would give up the wife before my lathe or any of my metal working tools (milling machines, surface grinders etc etc etc) as metal workign and foundry work is my main pastimes as well as one time earned my living for me.

The 7/12 mini lathe can be considered a kit lathe and it is capable of doing whatever a large lathe does only on a smaller scale, however its size is the limiting factor. Stay away fromthe all in one or three in one machines like the Smithy mill/drill/lathe...you'll regret it in the long run one day and it won;t take much use to realize this. Look for a nice 9" or 10 inch Southbend.old yes, fixeable, yes in most cases and parts are still available....Just bne warned that if you do aquire a lathe thats only one aspect of it as its goping to require a lot of various tools and tooling to do any work with it so you can spend a heap more money on these items even if its a mini lathe you have, the tools are the same and the tooling may be smaller in size but decent tooling costs $$$. YOu'll find, just like a chainsaw you get what you pay for with a lathe as well as tooling.......and carbide tooling is not always the answer.....you'll need a good trued up grinder as well.....so there really is not any end to a neat and rewarding hobby of metal working as such.

 

[Lakeside53]

...so there really is not any end to a neat and rewarding hobby of metal working as such.

so true...

If this is CAD

This is MAD

 

[Lakeside53]

. Stay away from the all in one or three in one machines like the Smithy mill/drill/lathe...you'll regret it in the long run one day and it won;t take much use to realize this. .

Well.. depends... a lot of guys use these and produce some very nice work. But in the general sense, yes.. they can be limited.

In the case of my Emco, the lathe was not a compromise, and the mill is just a nice accessory - not for big work, but it is a nice. Parts... yep... can be a problem, but...

A friend of mine is on the hunt for an Emco 6 speed mill to put on his SB!

 

[RiverRat2]

Well.. depends... a lot of guys use these and produce some very nice work. But in the general sense, yes.. they can be limited.

In the case of my Emco, the lathe was not a compromise, and the mill is just a nice accessory - not for big work, but it is a nice. Parts... yep... can be a problem, but...

A friend of mine is on the hunt for an Emco 6 speed mill to put on his SB!

If you are into just doing saw mods & small engine stuff,,, the little combo like Andy's is good,,,,,

The problem is once you start it is like chain saw disease,,,, you find other things to do then you have to go bigger n better,,, and more,,,, and on and on,,, and on,,,,,, there is no end!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!

 

[Four Paws]

If you have the scratch, or just get plain lucky and find one at a bargain, the Emco machines are first rate. This is my friend's lathe that I have had the pleasure of using on several occasions. This is the ultimate saw-builders lathe if you ask me - big enough to do the work, yet a nice small footprint in the shop.

Here it is turning down a flywheel for a project.