mini barber chair

[chuckwood]

Before and after pics always helps. Looking at it now, it seems you removed most of the already split part of the tree before making the back cut. I still believe if you had just went ahead and cut a notch on that side before the back cut, there wouldnt have been a barberchair,.

I agree. The wood about 3-4 feet above my hinge was cracked, busted junk, and so it just broke and peeled off. I should have notched it back maybe three or four inches into more solid wood. Part of my problem was lack of experience with extreme leaners, I knew that there was a *lot* of potential force in there just waiting to bust loose if I made a wrong move, and I was nervous about cutting a lot deeper into the face. In hindsight, I didn't need to be concerned, that wood in the face was all messed up anyway and wasn't doing anything to hold the tree. About all the wood I needed in the face was just barely enough to keep my bar from getting pinched. So much force above was pulling it in one direction that it was not going to be steered by a hinge anyway. An inch and a half or less of good wood would have been enough.

 

[Steve NW WI]

Before and after pics always helps. Looking at it now, it seems you removed most of the already split part of the tree before making the back cut. I still believe if you had just went ahead and cut a notch on that side before the back cut, there wouldnt have been a barberchair, but I wasnt there and it looks easy from where I am setting. You did what you thought was best and only you where in the best position to make that decision. It worked out so You must of been right. Using chains and straps is better than guessing, especially if your guess turns out wrong.

Straps or ropes wound tight and cinched work far better than chains, and chains are far better than nothing.

I've climbed trees that I wound with rope as I climbed because of structural defects. It is time consuming, but it sure is nice to be alive and have to the time to spend on it. Big bucks to get an arborist that knows how and when to wrap a tree to get it down safely.


Mr. HE

I do have to say that looking at the pics?, it looks like cheap galvanized g 30 chain. I'd hate to have it break and swat me. Good chain, cable, rope are irreplaceable.

 

[chuckwood]

I do have to say that looking at the pics?, it looks like cheap galvanized g 30 chain. I'd hate to have it break and swat me. Good chain, cable, rope are irreplaceable.

It's a heavy logging chain. I dumped it in a bucket of white enamel and then hung it out to dry, I was tired of losing it.

 

[Gologit]

Chuckwood...if you had to cut that same tree again what would you do differently?

 

[chuckwood]

Chuckwood...if you had to cut that same tree again what would you do differently?

I should have cut a little more off the face, the wood there was cracked and busted up and just didn't hold well enough for the hinge to work. Also, I made the hinge about an inch too thick. It didn't break at the bottom like I wanted it to, instead it broke about 4 feet up where the wood was in bad shape. But I was nervous about cutting too much off the face, and didn't need to be, the bad wood wasn't holding anything up anyway. One post suggested boring in all the way vertically, underneath, and at a 90 degree angle to the face notch in order to determine how sound the wood is. One thing that can cause an accident is not knowing just how sound the inside of the trunk is. Sometimes a rotten core isn't obvious.

 

[Holtby]

Hackberry makes really good firewood and isn't that hard to split. It does need to be split soon after felling, if left in the round for long it gets punky. Split, it will dry fairly fast and stay solid for years.

I've noticed that punky trait too? Also some insect-borer type will make a lot of fine white powder/sawdust out of some of the stored hackberry too, kind of like hickory does around here?

 

[muddstopper]

Hind sight 20/20. It would be nice to be able to see the results of ones actions before doing anything. I am sure if we could, we would all of made different decisions somewhere along the way. To me, I think the OP made the right decisions based on his own experience level. To err on the side of safety, when in doubt, is always better than taking a risk and hopeing for the best. While I think a little more face cut would have prevented the barber chair in the first place, I have the advantage of seeing the cut after the fact. The Op had to make the decision before he made the cut. Trial and error are great teachers and how most of us learned what we now know. Taking risk and getting away with dangerous situations only makes us braver and trusting in luck. Take enough risks and eventually your luck will run out. I think my first comments in this thread will serve many here very well. When in Doubt, take the Safe way out. I think thats what the Op did in this situation, he had his doubts and took the safest way he knew to get the job done. Tree got cut down and he didnt get hurt. Cant ask for more than that.

 

[chuckwood]

i would have cut higher up on the tree and made the face cut to the split in the tree. and definitely not used a bore cut. all the trees i cut are for firewood, there is no need to make a low cut on your hands and knees. you can cut the stump off later. steep and deep on the face, rarely use my wedges.

I agree about making the face cut to the split in the tree on this one. I should have cut maybe three more inches off the face and got into better wood. There is no way I would have used anything other than a bore cut on this one. There was a tremendous amount of tension in the trunk because of the two very large main branches taking off at a 45 degree angle and then bending to completely horizontal. I was amazed at how fast the thing moved after i cut through the back strap. It went bang and then a split second later I was looking straight on at the moving butt end of the trunk. There was none of that gradual swaying motion and a slowly widening crack at the base, giving you plenty of time to move back. It was bang - whomp! and the tree was on the ground and the trunk up in the air. I was about ten feet back from it holding a pole saw and I still involuntarily jumped back from it. I've heard that really bad barber chairs can break high up and then fold back on you. If it's big, and you are in the line of fire, you'll be going to the hospital.

 

[johncinco]

90 degrees wrong direction? some else wrong with that besides a barber chair.


Jus sayin....
But hey it is on the ground and nobody hurt. it all worked out.

 

[Nuzzy]

Why the sloping back?

Because then it's easier to log with mules and save the hillside from erosion.

 

[Pelorus]

And to the op if you would have just made a regular back cut she probably would have went slow .

Sigh. I think it would have ended badly.
Not saying you can never make a conventional backcut through a heavy leaner quick enough to prevent it b/c ing...but if the featured tree had anywhere near the lean of the hackberry in the other photo, then I think you are talking above your pay grade.

 

[Gologit]

Every time. I'm not saying I never had an issue with a tree. Never with a big tree though.

Wait.

 

[chuckwood]

I have cut plenty of leaners never with chains and pole saws though. It barber chaired cause he didn't cut to the split, and the bore cut, it was inevitable. It was a how not to cut a leaner documentary.

Have you cut any like these? Here is just a partial list of trees I'll have to deal with sooner or later. I'm still going to bore cut these. In my mind, big face cuts and regular back cuts on these is just going to get me hurt or get my saw stuck while I'm cutting the face.

 

[woodchuck357]

That tree would have probably killed me because I would have bet most of the farm that a hackberry could not be barberchaired. Still waiting to see a sycamore

I guess you will have to come help me remove some of the nearly horizontal sycamores after the spring floods. I'm sure not boring some of them would result in a chair.

 

[Trx250r180]

Have you cut any like these? Here is just a partial list of trees I'll have to deal with sooner or later. I'm still going to bore cut these. In my mind, big face cuts and regular back cuts on these is just going to get me hurt or get my saw stuck while I'm cutting the face. View attachment 334258 View attachment 334259 View attachment 334260 View attachment 334261

this is a cut i use on leaning alders ,and have had good luck with similar leaning trees ,i have been lucky enough not to have one blow up using this method ,the coos cut ,i use a humboldt face ,connect the corners of the face with the triangle side cuts ,then proceed with my back cut nipping slowly till i hear popping then walk away and let it go over ,hope this image helps explain somewhat how it works ,i also use a longer bar ,28 or 32 inch and use the tip area to keep my body more out of the way if it does decide to pop ,this is the same cut ,just top and bottom images to show how the holding wood did it's job

 

[Hinerman]

this is a cut i use on leaning alders ,and have had good luck with similar leaning trees ,i have been lucky enough not to have one blow up using this method ,the coos cut ,i use a humboldt face ,connect the corners of the face with the triangle side cuts ,then proceed with my back cut nipping slowly till i hear popping then walk away and let it go over ,hope this image helps explain somewhat how it works ,i also use a longer bar ,28 or 32 inch and use the tip area to keep my body more out of the way if it does decide to pop ,this is the same cut ,just top and bottom images to show how the holding wood did it's job

View attachment 334275 View attachment 334276

It appears all of your cuts to make the triangle are on plane with each other. Is this correct? As opposed to having the side cuts elevated above the face cut,,,the same way a back cut is normally elevated above the face cut. Am I understanding this correctly? Thanks in advance

 

[Trx250r180]

It appears all of your cuts to make the triangle are on plane with each other. Is this correct? As opposed to having the side cuts elevated above the face cut,,,the same way a back cut is normally elevated above the face cut. Am I understanding this correctly? Thanks in advance

the 3 triangle cuts are all on the same plane and the 4th cut the back cut is a traditional back cut through the same plane beginning at the tip of the 2 triangle points ,here is image i posted earlier if helps ,the one to the right

 

[treeslayer2003]

Have you cut any like these? Here is just a partial list of trees I'll have to deal with sooner or later. I'm still going to bore cut these. In my mind, big face cuts and regular back cuts on these is just going to get me hurt or get my saw stuck while I'm cutting the face. View attachment 334258 View attachment 334259 View attachment 334260 View attachment 334261

well sir, I wasn't going to get into this but you seem to want sound advice.
yes I would cut those trees, there is a different way than GOL. make a face with cuts lining up like always even if it has to be shallow, then bore in the middle of the face and gut out the heart leaving 2-3" on each side. by doing this you have eliminated most of the compression wood and each side is holding up the tree off your bar. when you go to the back cut don't play, cut it and leave. I think you already know what you did wrong on the one. stay safe.
somebody more computer savey than me might post up some diagrams.

 

[Trx250r180]

well sir, I wasn't going to get into this but you seem to want sound advice and so far all I see is BS.
yes I would cut those trees, there is a different way than GOL. make a face with cuts lining up like always even if it has to be shallow, then bore in the middle of the face and gut out the heart leaving 2-3" on each side. by doing this you have eliminated most of the compression wood and each side is holding up the tree off your bar. when you go to the back cut don't play, cut it and leave. I think you already know what you did wrong on the one. stay safe.
somebody more computer savey than me might post up some diagrams.

i like how you do those gut cuts ,do you think there is enough room on the ones in the images he posted ? look 12-14 inches across judging off the pallet on the ground

 

[treeslayer2003]

yes, you just have to down size your cuts to match the tree. obviously don't cut thru the back while gutting.