Moisture Level of Wood for Milling Question

[Brush Stomper]

Hello All,
I would appreciate any information anyone has on the moisture content of wood they mill. I've read all the information I could obtain on the internet about milling. I have been milling some mesquite that is pretty dry. It's been down 5 or 6 years. I'm using an Alaskan 24"mill. I have plenty wood in all stages and am just beginning to start milling. Thanks
Kenny

 

[oakman]

hey kenny,
around here in michigan i cut and mill mostly red oak and hard maple. depending on what time of year you cut the tree down, the moisture content will be between 30 and 40%. i don't know about mesquite. if it's been down 5 or 6 years i would guess it it very dry indeed, which makes for tough milling. the real question should be what you intend to do with the boards after you mill 'em. furniture, cabinets and the like will require the wood to be very dry, around 5 to 7% to be stable. more than that and you risk shrinkage, joint failure, and all kinda crazy stuff as the wood will continue drying when you move it indooors. of course different species have different characteristics. some are more stable than others. all wood moves with changes in temp and humidity. softwoods are less stable than hard. i mill most of mine into 1 1/8" inch thick, then i stack and sticker them outside , put sheets of plywood and a plastic tarp on top, and weight the stack with concrete blocks . air flow is the key to drying outside. don't stack them up next to the barn. it can take several months to air dry, depending on the weather. you will only be able to air dry down to the average relative humidity in your area. here it is about 12-13%. after that you must force the rest of the moisture out, using some form of a kiln. in the old days, furniture makers would simply move the wood indoors, where they heated with wood or coal which makes for very dry conditions, and let it continue to dry naturally. your best bet is to buy a moisture meter. i use a mini lignomat digital, which can be had for around 100 bucks. cheaper anolog, or led display ones are also available. hope this helps ya.

 

[Brush Stomper]

Tim
Thanks for your reply. I know the log I referred to has been down too long but my wife just wanted some boards out of it because it came from a tree in our yard which is over 75 years old. It was taken dowin during a wind storm. This milling is really hard on chains. There is a guy in our area who mills a lot of dry mesquite with a Timber King mill but charges
$55.00 an hour after you take it to his place. Later I'll start milling some less rank stuff from the pastures.
I don't want it too green because the dust will bind up worse in the saw --I think. I haven't run through any green wood yet.
I know drying will be a long process cause I don't have a Kiln.
Kenny

 

[user 2993]

Kenny, as you already know, Mesquite is quite hard in general, especially when dry. Wood will maintain moisture for a long time when left in the log. Although if you're in west Texas, the rel. humidity may be low enough that those 5 year old logs could be down around 20%. I haven't got to milling any real hard dry stuff yet, but I've been wondering if a taller side plate angle ( less hook ) might increase the life of the cutting edge. It works on circular and band saw blades, but I haven't tried it on a chain yet. Also, if you are using skip tooth, or Granberg style ripping chain, maybe try full comp filed to 0 degrees.
Good luck,
George

 

[Crofter]

Woodbeard: I think you may find that if you go to less hook on your ripping chain looking for longer stay sharp you will find it takes more pressure to make it feed and you will wear the bar more. Those longer bars are pricey aren't they.

Frank

 

[user 2993]

Crofter, thanks, I hadn't considered that, but it makes sense. Would semi chisel chain be better for milling hard, dry wood?

 

[Crofter]

Semi Chisel would probably give a smooth cut but I dont think it will feed well. The fibers in the outer half of the corner radius have to be severed several times instead of just once with the full chisel. The side plate doesn't cut at all when you are at 0 deg. I am thinking about slightly narrowing the outsides of the cutters on a chain to try it. I think the standard chain at least when near new takes out a lot more wood than necessary to clear the bar. Any hardness value of the crome is useless any way as the top plate does 100% of the work in ripping. Are you removing alternate top plates for scorers?

Frank

 

[user 2993]

Right now I am using the .404 skip tooth full chisel chain that came with the saw, filed to 0 deg. I am still new to this and haven't played around with other types of chain yet. Does removing the alternate top plates improve the speed or the cut?
I'm not real interested in a smoother cut, but less time in the log would be nice. I'm using a roller nose bar, so I'll probably try out other pitches as well. I have a loop of .325 that I want to modify for ripping.
My suggestions were mainly trying to address Brush Stomper's question, but now that I reread it, I see he was mostly asking how dry logs should be when milled ( I think? ) Actually, the greener the better. If you have trouble with the sprocket clogging, consider modifying the cover to allow more sawdust to escape, but primary milling of wood should be done as soon as possible. It is prone to checking and ring shake if left to dry in log form, and cuts easier when green.

George

 

[Newfie]

"Does removing the alternate top plates improve the speed or the cut?"

I beleive the main purpose is to help reduce heat buildup.

 

[Ryan Willock]

where's Kevin when you need him???

 

[Crofter]

It seems to be easier to make the saw feed into end grain if each tooth does not have to penetrate full width. The easier it feeds the less you have to push so the chain wastes less energy rubbing the bar.
It really is quite quick to nip off the alternate top plates. I do it free hand with a cutoff disc in the angle grinder, working off the tip of the bar. Just set and release chain brake for each tooth.
Heat is the enemy; it takes 3 to 4 times the energy to cut end grain than it does cross grain.

Frank

 

[Brush Stomper]

milling

Thanks for the replies. I am using a ripping chain from Bailey's that I guess is a Grandberg. Looks to me like a full comp chain that they have modified though. Woodbeard, this chain has some top plates ground down. I'm not looking at it ,so I can't remember the pattern but there is one.
Stihl's answer to a rip chain is a skip tooth. I got one but have not tried it yet. The angles look to be about 15 degrees.
I have a feeling that it will leave a rougher finish, I'll just have to see. Altering a stock chain to 0 degrees is good idea,but if the Stihl chain works satisfactorally,I'll use them. They cost 29 cents per D.L.
Kenny

 

[Newfie]

bailey's claims to make their chain in house, but I believe the angles are based on Granberg's patterns. It is stamped with an A1 which is either carlton or sandvik, I can't remember anymore. Cutter pattern is two full cutters then two cutters with top plates ground back, alternating sides. I like it but haven't tried anything else to compare it to. Leaves a nice smooth cut.

 

[user 2993]

Crofter, what type of wheel do you use to take the top plates off?
I have been hesitant to use an angle grinder because of the high rpms, thinking it might cause too much heat. Have you had any problems in that regard?
Thanks,
George

 

[Crofter]

I bump the cutter about 3 or 4 times so heat does not build up. The cut off discs I use are only about 40 thou thick so you are not building up a lot of heat any way. I leave the front of the cutter about 3/32 wide and taper it back to just the width of the side plate at the rear. In other words leave a little bit of side relief on the new edge you create.

Frank

 

[Oregon_Rob]

It appears, from reading posts and surfing that people go many different directions in ripping chain design, and most of the research seems to be done by individuals, as apposed to the big manufactures, who have the ability to go about it a little more scientifically. I assume that they don’t see a big enough market to make a big effort.

Here are my favorite sources of info that I have found on ripping chain. I am a novice, but learning.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/milling/messages
http://www.chainsawsforsawmills.com/sawchains.htm
http://www.fosterssales.com/

 

[oakman]

i have addressed this in a previous post, but i'd like to bring it up again, as i have found similar info on all the milling sites. ralph foster is a good guy. i have bought several long bars and chain from him, and he has even given me stuff for free, like handfuls of presets, extra teeth, etc. so i am not bad mouthing him, but here is a quote from his website:

"Ripping" chain as it's called is a specially designed chain for those long, heat producing, cuts made during the milling of boards such as when using the Alaskan Mill. When a 24" or longer bar is used, the heat created from making these wide, long, with the grain cuts is dramatically increased as well as clutch wear due to slippage and heat transfer from the chain. Cross cutting a log is different than cutting with the grain. In cross cutting small chips are produced while cutting with the grain produces long stringy fibrous strands.
Those long strands are notorious for clogging up in the cut or packing the clutch area tight, producing more drag and even more heat. A good ripping chain prevents this yet still gives a better, smoother cut, all the while preserving the life of your saw by not overworking/overheating it. "

the statement, about the type of chips produced, is false, and makes me wonder how much milling they have actually done. here is part of what i posted before on this subject:

"a couple of the bigger websites are describing the long curly shavings you get from milling a log with a chainsaw. this is not the case. what you are doing is cutting directly across the end grain of the log, 90 degrees to the wood fibres. this produces very fine dust, not long stringy shavings. the only way to get those would be to cut into the log parallel, or close to it, to the length, which would require a very long bar to produce boards! remember wood shop in school, when the teacher wanted you to square up the end of a board with a hand plane? same thing when chainsaw milling. so they really shouldn't be calling it ripping, as in ripping with a handsaw or table saw, where the blade is at a decided angle and cutting parallel ''with'' the wood fibres, but something more like ''end grain milling'', or ''cross end grain milling''. i'm sure all you seasoned chainsaw millers already know this, but i thought i would bring it up for those wanting to mill. i have milled more than 50,000 board feet, and have used every type of chain there is for milling, including some of my own modifications. i have found improved performance with a ripping style chain in softwoods, but for hardwoods, a good sharp standard square chisel, with the rakers set at .035 will give the best performance. it is a slow process in hardwood, at best."

 

[Newfie]

Tim,

Thanks for posting that info. I had run across that same erroneous statement about the curly fries and had to wonder myself. Bug dust is the main byproduct

When I first started milling I had to stop and call Bailey's to see if there was something wrong with my chain cuz' all it made was dust (and some very nice boards).

I haven't milled anyway hardwood yet, only about 4MBF of pine. I think I'll try your suggestion in regard to the chain switch for some nice white oak I just took down.
Milling is cool.

 

[oakman]

newfie, you're welcome. i ain't claiming to know it all, i've lived long enough to know that no matter what you do, there is always some other way. some better, some not. this is just my own experience. i have tried "factory rip chain" from various makers, made my own , basically using the methods crofter has posted, and tried various other styles. ripping chain, i.e. one that has every other set of cutters as scorers works good in softwood, but it shakes too hard for me in hardwood. i think this puts way too much stress on the powerhead, so for me, any small gains in speed aint worth a tore up motor. standard square chisel, kept razor sharp, with the rakers down to .035, gives the smoothest, easiest on the saw, cut. i never mill when its hot. too ???? dusty, and the heat will tear everything up. i save it all for late fall, early winter, and early springtime. yes it is a lot of fun to me, as well. a heck of a lot of work to produce usable boards, with the drying and planing and straightedging. if you are counting your labor costs, you are way ahead to buy processed rough lumber from a supplier. but i get a lot of satisfaction from taking a tree down, milling it up, processing the boards, and making something out of them that will, if properly constructed, last for generations. even though i am a bit sad to kill a perfectly healthy tree. but you can always plant 2 for every 1 you cut. we need more trees. one of the few renewable resources on the planet. everybody- PLANT A TREE! more trees=more saws=more fun...............................................

 

[Oregon_Rob]

which of the milling saws have the Side Access Chain Tensioner
066 Yes
395?
088?
3120?
others?