MS 361 Modified Returned and Tested Today

[West Texas]

Recieved my 'woods' modified 361 back today. Put on a .325 square chisel chain with a 9T drive sprocket and 16" bar. Made a minor H jet adjustment for my higher elevation. Took it to the woods and made 26 cuts on a downed dead oak about 9+ inches in diameter. Average time was about 5 sec, using the "one thousand one" and "one thousand two" concept as I was by myself and did not have a timer or video camera.

I pushed the saw down into the wood very hard in an attempt to bog it down; but, it just kept cutting. That was impressive, especially on a 9T drive sprocket set up.

Will be out of town tomorrow; but, plan to take a helper to time and video it on Thursday. Will post results then. Tom

 

[THALL10326]

Recieved my 'woods' modified 361 back today. Put on a .325 square chisel chain with a 9T drive sprocket and 16" bar. Made a minor H jet adjustment for my higher elevation. Took it to the woods and made 26 cuts on a downed dead oak about 9+ inches in diameter. Average time was about 5 sec, using the "one thousand one" and "one thousand two" concept as I was by myself and did not have a timer or video camera.

I pushed the saw down into the wood very hard in an attempt to bog it down; but, it just kept cutting. That was impressive, especially on a 9T drive sprocket set up.

Will be out of town tomorrow; but, plan to take a helper to time and video it on Thursday. Will post results then. Tom

West Tex you old geezer saw man you its good to see your having a ball with that new toy of yours,it really is. Some your age have gone to the front porch and grabbed the rocking chair. Its good to see someone like you out there and getting with it, can't beat it. Impressed with you.............

 

[skwerl]

Who did your mods? I've had saws from Dan Henry, Dave Neiger and getting one from Ed Heard soon. Once you've run modded saws you won't want to go back to stock.

 

[West Texas]

The latest is by Ed and the earlier one was by Dave Neiger. You are right; once you get a good mod its tough to go back to stock. The post above is on Ed's that was just returned today. The one by Dave compares favorably. On the 9+ inch hard dead oak limb there was about a half second difference between the two, with an edge to Ed's. But both were driving a 9T sprocket and neither would quit, even though I pushed them both down hard into the wood. I'm pleased with both.

 

[NWCS]

i am curious, why the use of .325 chain? the saw should pull 3/8" chain just fine. my 036 pro came stock with 3/8 chain and pulled it well. after my porting work it pulls 3/8 full comp chisel like it was an 044. plus with the larger chain you have more chip clearing area in the chain. is there any speed advantage to the smaller chain in work use? i would love to see video.

 

[bwalker]

i am curious, why the use of .325 chain? the saw should pull 3/8" chain just fine. my 036 pro came stock with 3/8 chain and pulled it well. after my porting work it pulls 3/8 full comp chisel like it was an 044. plus with the larger chain you have more chip clearing area in the chain. is there any speed advantage to the smaller chain in work use? i would love to see video.

With 60cc saws and below using round filed chain .325 is always been faster on my saws. This includes a ms 260, EHP260, Greffarddized 260, EHP361, ms 360 and a 036.
I understand that once you square grind the chain 3/8 is better, but I have never tried square except for a few loops of factory stuff, which is not much, if any faster than round.

 

[Lakeside53]

With 60cc saws and below using round filed chain .325 is always been faster on my saws. This includes a ms 260, EHP260, Greffarddized 260, EHP361, ms 360 and a 036.
I understand that once you square grind the chain 3/8 is better, but I have never tried square except for a few loops of factory stuff, which is not much, if any faster than round.

It depends on what you are cutting... out here in the Pacific NW 3/8 outcuts 325 in softwoods... probably due to chip clearance. Factory square ground cuts great, and when its sharpend round, cuts just like RS chisel (no suprise there). Rarely see anything but 3/8 on 026/36/44/46 out here.

 

[Freakingstang]

i am curious, why the use of .325 chain? the saw should pull 3/8" chain just fine. my 036 pro came stock with 3/8 chain and pulled it well. after my porting work it pulls 3/8 full comp chisel like it was an 044. plus with the larger chain you have more chip clearing area in the chain. is there any speed advantage to the smaller chain in work use? i would love to see video.

I think the same way. If I can't pull 3/8 chain on a 50+ cc saw, I don't need to keep it.

 

[West Texas]

I've been out of town today, so missed this discussion. I run both .325 and 3/8 chain with equal ease. But the reason I ran the .325 for my trial and comparison cuts yesterday, is I have some very old square chisel .325 chain that is harder than a brick, which I have been using on my Neiger 361, as a 'limbing' saw on a 16" bar with a 9T drive sprocket. Its been a fun combination in the hard dead oak that I cut on nearby ranches out here in West Texas. I had an extra 9T drive sprocket, so when Ed's saw arrived yesterday, I put it on his saw and went to the woods. Then I just had to swap the bar and chain between the two saws for making comparison cuts. The setup was not crucial, just wanted to have it identical on both saws for my own personal comparison. My plan is to put a longer bar, 3/8x8 drive sprocket and a 3/8 chain on Ed's saw and use it for the falling and the big stuff. Will keep the Neiger 361 configured as I've had it all winter, because I really like the combination. So well, that I've not been using the 026 as much for limbing. I'm not a pro, I just cut firewood and like to have fun doing it.

 

[SawTroll]

I think the same way. If I can't pull 3/8 chain on a 50+ cc saw, I don't need to keep it.

Here is my thoughts on this;

When sprocket diameter is the same, as it practically is with .325x9 and 3/8x8, the .325 will have more cutters in the wood and be faster - provided the cutters are eqally effective, the saw powerful enough to keep the rpms up, and chip clearence isn't a problem.:greenchainsaw:

For the relatively small wood and powerful saws in question here, my guess is that the .325 is fastest, provided each cutters is equally effective.......

At some point, when the wood get bigger and/or harder, the larger number of .325 cutters will slow the rpms enough to make the 3/8" faster. Bogging because of insuffisient chip clearance will also become a problem earlier with the .325 than with the 3/8" - sort of a reversed skip chain effect.

 

[bwalker]

I would like to point out that the only .325 chain I messs with is Stihl RS. It has a tooth that is much bigger than the typical .325 chain and really cuts good.
Currently I have all my only under 60cc saw switched over to run on 3/8, but without a doubt it would cut faster with .325.

 

[bwalker]

It depends on what you are cutting... out here in the Pacific NW 3/8 outcuts 325 in softwoods... probably due to chip clearance. Factory square ground cuts great, and when its sharpend round, cuts just like RS chisel (no suprise there). Rarely see anything but 3/8 on 026/36/44/46 out here.

Lakeside, when I tested square ground Stihl chain last summer I was cutting jack pine, which is very soft. Like I said It wasnt any faster than Stihl RS round ground. It did cut fairly smooth though.

 

[ShoerFast]

Lakeside, when I tested square ground Stihl chain last summer I was cutting jack pine, which is very soft. Like I said It wasnt any faster than Stihl RS round ground. It did cut fairly smooth though.

Bwalker

If you ever get the chance in some big wood, give square another chance.
Make some timed cuts or vid-it and time it from the vid.

I'm not the best square filer, but I do think I can get anything I want out of round filing,,,,, and my square beats my round every time!

Kevin

 

[West Texas]

I have video of both modified 361's but they have failed to load on to AS. Go to the web site below and you will see the video's. I've got them labeled as to which saw is which; and, it should be noted that the limb was getting thicker and close to a crotch when we filmed Ed's saw with the 3/8 x 8 sprocket and longer bar with semi skip chain.

http://westtexas2.zippyvideos.com/gallery.z This is the Neiger saw with 16" bar .325 9T chain. And the limb was not quite as thick at this point as it was for Ed's saw.

http://www.zippyvideos.com/3658771824184306/image016/ This is Ed's with a 20" bar 3/8x8 sprocket on 3/8 semi skip chain.

So its not an exact setup comparison today; but, the way I'll be using them in the woods. I will try a 3/8x7 sprocket on Ed's saw next time for comparison with the 3/8x8 sprocket.

 

[SawTroll]

I would like to point out that the only .325 chain I messs with is Stihl RS. It has a tooth that is much bigger than the typical .325 chain and really cuts good....

I think the RS is the only .325 chain that will fill my criteria as to having "equally effective cutters" as the corresponding 3/8" chain........

 

[bwalker]

Bwalker

If you ever get the chance in some big wood, give square another chance.
Make some timed cuts or vid-it and time it from the vid.

I'm not the best square filer, but I do think I can get anything I want out of round filing,,,,, and my square beats my round every time!

Kevin

Kevin, My opportunity to cut large softwoods is very limited. Most of the wood I cut is Sugar Maple, Oak, and Yellow Birch.

 

[SawTroll]

I think the same way. If I can't pull 3/8 chain on a 50+ cc saw, I don't need to keep it.

I think most of the talk about if a 3 cube saw will "pull" the 3/8" chain really is about the sprocket diameter, and not the pitch itself.

In most cases, the real issue is that the smallest (7-pin) 3/8" rim is larger than the smallest (also 7-pin) .325, and thereby "robs" about 14% torque for a similar increase in (initial) chain speed.
I suspect that a lot of saws that perform good with the 3/8"x7 would have performed even better with a .325x8 and RS chain - at least in small wood.
:greenchainsaw: