MS361 fractured crankcase... what to expect from Stihl?

[lone wolf]

OP why dont you see if you can get a good welder to fix all them?

 

[saxman]

It just seems odd to me that for the number of years that the 361 has been in service and the number of them that have been modded and otherwise inspected in all respects why have we never heard of this issue before? I know this issue gives fodder to all the Stihl haters on AS but really, I believe this is not a design problem. More likely a combination of lots of use and probably some abuse for good measure

Steve

 

[lone wolf]

It just seems odd to me that for the number of years that the 361 has been in service and the number of them that have been modded and otherwise inspected in all respects why have we never heard of this issue before? I know this issue gives fodder to all the Stihl haters on AS but really, I believe this is not a design problem. More likely a combination of lots of use and probably some abuse for good measure

Steve

Don't say nothing spy on them using it and see what the hell they are doing to it.

 

[RiverRat2]

Wonder if the 362 case is reinforced more at that location?

I hope other 361 users on A.S. take a look for hairline cracks in that area and get back to us on their saws.

dhskier2 - if you don't get a response from your regional STIHL distributor, send a letter (the kind on paper) to STIHL USA in Virginia Beach, stressing the conservation corps nature of your work. These are good programs and are influential on a lot of future saw users.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Philbert

I said I would check the two I have left when Get back to the shop @ the end of the week... if they are not out on a job!!!!! (Which I hope they are ON A JOB!!!!)N IF THY ARE CRACKED i HAVE A NICE 036 Pro series saw Im gonna put a top end on any way!!!!

 

[jus2fat]

OP why don't you see if you can get a good welder to fix all them?

Finding a good welder that can weld magnesium can be quite a task..in some places.

I only know of two really good welders that can weld thin aluminum to my approval.

It's what I would do...if the OP can find a good magnesium welder locally..!!

J2F

 

[openloop]

Finding a good welder that can weld magnesium can be quite a task..in some places.

I only know of two really good welders that can weld thin aluminum to my approval.

It's what I would do...if the OP can find a good magnesium welder locally..!!

J2F

Take it from someone who does that for a living.... Judging from the pictures alone...the only way to properly weld that would be to drill out the ends of the cracks and heavily gouge the metal to prepare it for welding. In doing so the relationship of that pin to the other parts of the chainbrake could be effected rendering the brake to sensitive or non functioning at all. Also the case halves are surely tempered and welding them will destroy that temper, and if the metal in that area truly isnt thick enough the same thing will likely happen again. By the time you disassembled the cases and paid a welder to fix weld it... especially when considering the liability of allowing others to use "rigged" saws, you would probably be better off buying another case half.

 

[lone wolf]

Take it from someone who does that for a living.... Judging from the pictures alone...the only way to properly weld that would be to drill out the ends of the cracks and heavily gouge the metal to prepare it for welding. In doing so the relationship of that pin to the other parts of the chainbrake could be effected rendering the brake to sensitive or non functioning at all. Also the case halves are surely tempered and welding them will destroy that temper, and if the metal in that area truly isnt thick enough the same thing will likely happen again. By the time you disassembled the cases and paid a welder to fix weld it... especially when considering the liability of allowing others to use "rigged" saws, you would probably be better off buying another case half.

Ouch!!!

 

[dhskier2]

Of course the manual say so, for liability reasons - but that doesn't mean that it is a sound thing to actually do!

The chain brakes are emergency brakes, they are not supposed to be used as "parking brakes" - that just is something their lawyers write into the manuals for liability reasons!

I've got no probelms with our handbrake use practices. The last thing I need is some serioius incident that would end up in the news with headlines like "local teen injured in chainsaw accident while working for youth organization." They won't have done their homework to know that the person would be at least 18, achieved nationaly accredited chainsaw training (S-212 wildland fire), has notched 200 hours experience on a saw, etc, etc.
A company has their liability practices, and I've got mine too.

That sounds like the 036CQ/MS361CQ Them are built like Rube Goldberg devices and frequently fail...

LINK

I'm not interested in a pissing match here, but don't quote a thread that no merrit to it. There's only three replies to the OP, and you're the only one stating "frequent failure"

What if an operator was holding it wide open and slamming the brake on all the time out of stupidity or malice would that do it? I have seen operators that tend to break the same things on each saw they use due top their method!I had climbers that pull the pullcord way to far out and hard for a small saw and consistently break the little plastic engagement pawls.I had another one always get the saw stuck in a cut and wiggle it free with a good amount of force and always bend chain links.I had another one always drop the saw on the lanyard when in a tree and always broke the ring it was attached to.I had guys that lean on saws too hard and always smoke the clutch. i seen Climbers get the saw stuck and pull on it like a SOB and always broke the rubber anti vibe buffers! I got to the point where who ever was working I would know what parts to stock up on and boy I tell you I did not miss a thing!

I drop in un announced at least three times a month (try to drop by a site once a week). There have definatly been times that I've talked with the crew about using the brake and have had to remind them of lettign the chain spool-down to its resting position before setting the brake. But I have yet to observe negligent use of the brake. I've had the same crew leader the past three years and I'm confident in how they provide guidance in technique and handling skills to our crew.

It just seems odd to me that for the number of years that the 361 has been in service and the number of them that have been modded and otherwise inspected in all respects why have we never heard of this issue before? I know this issue gives fodder to all the Stihl haters on AS but really, I believe this is not a design problem. More likely a combination of lots of use and probably some abuse for good measure

Steve

Other than this crankcase issue (which isn't a cheap fix!), I have been nothign but happy with our line of Stihl saws the past three years. We have had very little maintenance on these saws. I've done a few carb kits, had a couple oil pump/worm replacements, one clutch, a few chain tensioner screw/plate... I'm happy with what we've been running.

Take it from someone who does that for a living.... Judging from the pictures alone...the only way to properly weld that would be to drill out the ends of the cracks and heavily gouge the metal to prepare it for welding. In doing so the relationship of that pin to the other parts of the chainbrake could be effected rendering the brake to sensitive or non functioning at all. Also the case halves are surely tempered and welding them will destroy that temper, and if the metal in that area truly isnt thick enough the same thing will likely happen again. By the time you disassembled the cases and paid a welder to fix weld it... especially when considering the liability of allowing others to use "rigged" saws, you would probably be better off buying another case half.

I talked to a fab shop- basically said the same thing. These cases aren't CNC'd aluminum, they're cast aluminum alloy- which I was told melts at about 1/3 the temp. I was told I'd be hard pressed to find anyone to even touch them, let alone it be a cost-effective venture to do it.



I'll chime back in when I hear back from our regional Stihl service rep.

 

[CentaurG2]

Well mine does not have any signs of fracture and its about 4 years old. I am an optimistically aggressive chain brake abuser. If the chain is not in the wood, the brake is on but this saw is not a front line machine. It don’t do much else than cut firewood. It lost its seat on the big truck to a dolmar 5100 and I have never looked back.

 

[FlyLow]

dhskier: You may not have a problem with their hand brake practice but the saws sure do! It seems like you dont see enough of the use to make a judgment. It sure is easy for you to start blaming Stihl, pass the buck.

I think it would be interesting to see how long it would take a truck full of huskies to show the same damage.

 

[lone wolf]

dhskier: You may not have a problem with their hand brake practice but the saws sure do! It seems like you dont see enough of the use to make a judgment. It sure is easy for you to start blaming Stihl, pass the buck.

I think it would be interesting to see how long it would take a truck full of huskies to show the same damage.

Sounds like they hammered it dont it?

 

[Fish]

What if an operator was holding it wide open and slamming the brake on all the time out of stupidity or malice would that do it? I have seen operators that tend to break the same things on each saw they use due top their method!I had climbers that pull the pullcord way to far out and hard for a small saw and consistently break the little plastic engagement pawls.I had another one always get the saw stuck in a cut and wiggle it free with a good amount of force and always bend chain links.I had another one always drop the saw on the lanyard when in a tree and always broke the ring it was attached to.I had guys that lean on saws too hard and always smoke the clutch. i seen Climbers get the saw stuck and pull on it like a SOB and always broke the rubber anti vibe buffers! I got to the point where who ever was working I would know what parts to stock up on and boy I tell you I did not miss a thing!

I would guess that no one kid uses the same saw all of the time, and you have one kid that likes to engage the brake while the chain is
still wailing along, he probably does this a lot. That incessant shock day in day out would start the cracks.

I had a kid work in the Truck shop I managed, he could find a way to destroy an anvil if you didn't constantly watch him.

 

[walexa07]

From the looks of those saws in the trailer, they look very well cared for considering the hours/users they see. Seems to me that if the chainbrake was heavily abused that brake component failures and maintenance would be significant. In other words, OP just stated a couple carb kits and oiler parts, nothing about spring and brake band maintenance.

Personally, I would expect Stihl to investigate a little, and if no foul play can be identified, step up to the plate - especially since they have other models that are not experiencing the same issues. Or at least give the OP a certain credit per saw towards new replacements.

Waylan

 

[lone wolf]

I would guess that no one kid uses the same saw all of the time, and you have one kid that likes to engage the brake while the chain is
still wailing along, he probably does this a lot. That incessant shock day in day out would start the cracks.

I had a kid work in the Truck shop I managed, he could find a way to destroy an anvil if you didn't constantly watch him.

Thats what I got from reading all this too.Key clue KID!

 

[CentaurG2]

Chain brake is a safety feature and it should handle anything you throw at it. The plastic should fail long before the case. I would speculate that design, age and metal fatigue are responsible. Stihl had a short production run on the ms361. Perhaps there was a very good reason they replaced it so quickly with the 362. Should be interesting to hear from stihl corporate about this.

 

[jus2fat]

To quote the OP:

"These cases aren't CNC'd aluminum, they're cast aluminum alloy"

My understanding is they're all magnesium cases...No aluminum involved at all..??
It would seem if aluminum..they would bend quite a bit before cracking..??

Could someone..'in the know'..please clear this up..??..!!!!

J2F

 

[lone wolf]

To quote the OP:

"These cases aren't CNC'd aluminum, they're cast aluminum alloy"

My understanding is they're all magnesium cases...No aluminum involved at all..??
It would seem if aluminum..they would bend quite a bit before cracking..??

Could someone..'in the know'..please clear this up..??..!!!!

J2F

They are Magnesium not aluminum.I have had magnesium case welded by a local motorcycle shop and he does good work.

 

[Fish]

Yes, magnesium. If you doubt it, take a tiny drill bit and drill a small hole in a remote harmless location of the case, and then pile up all of the shavings, then put a match to it, it will flare up and spark a lot if it is magnesium...

 

[lone wolf]

Yes, magnesium. If you doubt it, take a tiny drill bit and drill a small hole in a remote harmless location of the case, and then pile up all of the shavings, then put a match to it, it will flare up and spark a lot if it is magnesium...

Predominately yes but it could be a Magnesium aluminum alloy with a low percentage of aluminum.

http://www.madsens1.com/saw_thread_repair.htm

 

[Fish]

Chain brake is a safety feature and it should handle anything you throw at it. The plastic should fail long before the case. I would speculate that design, age and metal fatigue are responsible. Stihl had a short production run on the ms361. Perhaps there was a very good reason they replaced it so quickly with the 362. Should be interesting to hear from stihl corporate about this.

Possibly, but who knows?

Chain brake part replacement usually involves replacing the broken handle, and replacing the lost parts that flew off while attempting to replace
the handle. I had to start including the hardware with my brake handles, as I rarely just sell the hardware.

The failures discussed here sound like there is a user that is doing something unique to cause these problems, as the cheaper saws have
the chain brakes working on pins in a plastic crankcase, with NO PROBLEMS.

But I do agree, if there was a problem with this model, the manufacturer will be real slow to step up and admit to anything at all.
Took Stihl and Echo a real long time before they admitted their problems with their fuel lines a decade or so ago..