MS361 fractured crankcase... what to expect from Stihl?

[lcso10]

I am not going to say operator error or design flaw. It is strang for this to happen though. If I were Stihl, with the technology that Stihl has, I would call for the first case half and now this case half and investigate. A good question to ask, are the serial numbers close together with each other? If so, maybe the mold for the case half was near the end of its life and should have been changed just a little bit sooner. That would be something to look at.
Being it is a safety feature, I would think Stihl would want to get involved hip deep.

I know from experience that the first words from a tech at Stihl is " have not heard of this problem." Next thing you know cases start poping up from all around the US.

 

[lcso10]

Curious if all of your saws were bought around the same time - are their serial numbers close?

Philbert

Seems like were thinking along the same thing at the same time!

 

[SawTroll]

I agree with Johnnie...there's likely some operator(s) errors going on here..!!

I've not seen this problem listed before..with the homeowner/PRO users here..!!

J2F

Sounds like repeated and systematic operator errors, imposed by misleading teaching! :bang:

 

[stihl waters]

Sounds like repeated and systematic operator errors, imposed by misleading teaching! :bang:

:msp_thumbup:

 

[dhskier2]

That looks like a pretty slick set-up but do the brake handles touch the side wall?

Nick

Handbrake doesn't touch the wall of the trailer. Saws set in on an angle- about 10" from the power head to the wall.

Curious if all of your saws were bought around the same time - are their serial numbers close?

Philbert

I'll have to look when I get back to the office, but as I recall, three of the five were close, and two in opposite directions of production. Four of the five were purchased at the same time and will be 4 years old this May, and the 5th saw was purchased almost two years ago.


As far as handbrake use/training...
general rule: walking more than 10ft between cuts, set your brake. Moving more than 50ft between trees, kill your saw.
crews are shown the spool-down of a chain and when to, and not to set their brake.
Something dumb like being seen setting the brake with the palm of your hand (except in particular circumstances) puts you on swamper duty for awhile. Training is thumb-wrap never leaves handlebar and it's a roll of the wrist to set the brake.

I'm definitely open to the fact that operator miss-use has a potentially big factor to play here, but the idea that five saws, representing a moderate timeline of production (but not great), all fail in the same spot within a two-month period. My guess is that we'd have found all five saws with the stress fracture at the same time if I knew to be looking for it.

I'll keep you posted. Left a voice mail and another email with Stihl today.

 

[SawTroll]

.......

As far as handbrake use/training...
general rule: walking more than 10ft between cuts, set your brake. Moving more than 50ft between trees, kill your saw. ......

I would call that operator error, no less! :bang::bang:

 

[rupedoggy]

I would call that operator error, no less! :bang::bang:

What are you talking about Nikko? The operator manual that comes with each Stihl saw basically says the same thing and it says to set the brake before starting the saw. Using a chain brake should not cause it to fail. The other line of stihls that the man uses in his work do not have this problem. It is the same operators. Why is it the operators fault if they treat all the Stihls the same and one series fails?
I tell you why. Bad design on this one. When the 044 first came out the crankshafts failed in 100% of the saws in a local logging company. This was like 40 saws over a year period. Stihl told them there was no problem and they must be doing something wrong. About two years after that the shafts were redesigned and a different heat treat and polish was used. Stihl never admitted something was wrong, so don't think they will now.

 

[THE PLUMMER]

Sounds like repeated and systematic operator errors, imposed by misleading teaching! :bang:

could you be anymore of a goof, you always have to throw what you might think is 2 cents worth in every thread at the most inopportune time. You must be the guy on the outside of the conversation circle always trying to be heard , spending 10 minutes thinking on how to say 1 cool thing to fit in. :bang:

 

[fearofpavement]

There are a lot of these saws around, someone on here is going to chime in with the same problem if it is endemic to the model. It could very well be a defect but if so, it would be common all over, not just at one "company" so we wait to hear what others find when they look theirs over tomorrow. I bet a couple people are reading this thread and concerned about their saw but not quite enough to go out in the cold darkness to check it...

 

[blsnelling]

I as well am not buying the operator error theory, at least not yet. A chainbrake is technically supposed to be used as the OP has stated. IMHO, the plastic handle should break long before the case would fracture.

 

[fearofpavement]

could you be anymore of a goof, you always have to throw what you might think is 2 cents worth in every thread at the most inopportune time. You must be the guy on the outside of the conversation circle always trying to be heard , spending 10 minutes thinking on how to say 1 cool thing to fit in. :bang:

If Sawtroll was trying to fit in, he wouldn't make controversial posts. He expresses his opinions like everyone else on this forum. If you don't like his input, skip his posts and scroll down to the next.

 

[juststumps]

just my opion

I'm gonna throw my 2 cents in here.

1: Design flaw . I have one at work and one at home . know a lot of people that have them . Don't think that's it .

2: Operator error . I could see this happening if you have a " CHUCKER " ! Everyone has worked with a CHUCKER at some time in his life . The guy that throws everything . A CHUCKER could grab a different saw everyday . Those brake handle are pretty tough , cast metal is as well . But I could see the casting breaking before the brake handle after repeated drops .

3: THE CHAIN SAW HOLDER . Neat set up , 2 steel channels the bar slides into at an angle . I could see people grabbing the saw by the wrap handle and the brake . And yanking on the saw to get it out , because the chain is getting caught in the steel channels. The nose of the bar extends past the holder . Sort of like a fish hook . Easy in , hard out . At work we have a plywood shelf with slots cut into it at waist height to store saws . The chain always gets snagged on the way out . Back to the repeated shocks on the housing vs a piece of flexible plastic .

Just my 2 cents ,

 

[Philbert]

I have linked to this video before: it appears to show that while quality saws are not made to be abused, they should hold up to some rough handling, as opposed to some of the poor quality knock-offs. I am assuming that the OP's crews have not intentionally abused his saws and am very interested to find out what the root cause of the cracks is.

Philbert

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/v6GAssS-v2k" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[2dogs]

I would call that operator error, no less! :bang::bang:

Troll I usually find myself agreeing with you but not this time. The chain brake should be used just as the manufacture recommends. Often. The chain brake and the saw it is mounted to are not some delicate components that need kid glove handling. The brake can be applied 50 times each day with no ill effects. It is meant to be used.

The 10'/50' rule is a good one that is common in the fire service. The saws don't break. What the OP's problem is I don't know.

 

[nick 55]

I want to clarify my post a little bit. I have just reread every post on here, and I have some revisions to mine, but it has been quoted so I won't edit it. I have a feeling it may be unintentionally done damage. I would be interested in the autopsy photos from the first saw and the second time on that same saw.

Nick

 

[Justsaws]

Handbrake doesn't touch the wall of the trailer. Saws set in on an angle- about 10" from the power head to the wall.



I'll have to look when I get back to the office, but as I recall, three of the five were close, and two in opposite directions of production. Four of the five were purchased at the same time and will be 4 years old this May, and the 5th saw was purchased almost two years ago.


As far as handbrake use/training...
general rule: walking more than 10ft between cuts, set your brake. Moving more than 50ft between trees, kill your saw.
crews are shown the spool-down of a chain and when to, and not to set their brake.
Something dumb like being seen setting the brake with the palm of your hand (except in particular circumstances) puts you on swamper duty for awhile. Training is thumb-wrap never leaves handlebar and it's a roll of the wrist to set the brake.

I'm definitely open to the fact that operator miss-use has a potentially big factor to play here, but the idea that five saws, representing a moderate timeline of production (but not great), all fail in the same spot within a two-month period. My guess is that we'd have found all five saws with the stress fracture at the same time if I knew to be looking for it.

I'll keep you posted. Left a voice mail and another email with Stihl today.

Use fatigue, no idea what they will tell you, but from your description of use and age of saw it is amazing they still run with any original parts. Junked some cases in the past but never needed to look at that area to find damage. 4 years old, commercial duty case failure, not to unusual.

The flip side being that as was mentioned earlier, Stihl techs are never aware of any issues. That is an area that few people look at carefully. Being broken would mean it was uuseable until replaced, so...

If you have any that are not broken you might want to acid etch the paint off the area and see if there is a manufacturing flaw, they would paint pistons if they could.

 

[RiverRat2]

Use fatigue, no idea what they will tell you, but from your description of use and age of saw it is amazing they still run with any original parts. Junked some cases in the past but never needed to look at that area to find damage. 4 years old, commercial duty case failure, not to unusual.

The flip side being that as was mentioned earlier, Stihl techs are never aware of any issues. That is an area that few people look at carefully. Being broken would mean it was uuseable until replaced, so...

Yeah its got me wondering,,, got a couple of them 04-05 vintage ande they have had the doggy pooh run out of them... guess I better have a look at em,,, they are stihl running fine??????

 

[Justsaws]

I would like to see the other side of they cases where the crack is. I do not have any 361s, to new and all fancy with the flippy caps and springs and weirdo porting.

 

[mowoodchopper]

Thats what happens when you run junk stihls, :hmm3grin2orange: Husqvarnas dont do that

 

[Justsaws]

Thats what happens when you run junk stihls, :hmm3grin2orange: Husqvarnas dont do that

The pins just fall out of Huskys, but not before hogging out the hole. One could could say that Husqvarnas ream themselves.