ms440 rebuild and upgrade

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Ima Doher

Ole Sparky
Joined
Jul 24, 2015
Messages
67
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Location
United Chainsaw Land
I finally have the parts in to rebuild this ms440.
An ebayer forgot to tell me the helicoil he installed was failed attempt.
So I'm replacing with a 52mm upgrade and a dual port muffler.
I wish I took before pics but when I started I was not thinking of posting.
The little sucker had some power the 2 days I got to use it so I'm a little excited to see this thing chop em up :)
I havn't had time to study up on porting but I did get some eyeball on pictures and read the posts.
I took into consideration about ring catchers and worked on the interrior edges of the ports to smooth them.
I just need to get this saw back into the game right now so as I learn about porting I can take the jug back off and do a better job.
This is a Mahle cylinder and Meteor piston with caber rings.
The roof of the exhaust and intake were straight across, basically squared or oblong if you will. The exhaust looking from the inside was about straight up and down on the right and beveled outward on the left. I noticed on an 036 that the stock cylinder did the same so I imagine this is normal from factory.
*I got started working and then when I was getting done I realized maybe I was supposed to make the intake bottom of the hole more oval and not the top. I'll look through the porting posts tonight to see if I got it right or wrong. Maybe some feedback will come in to save me some time.
I'd like to get done and reassembled tomorrow if I can.
The exhaust I know is correct to make the top oval on the inside and leave the bottom line flat.
One side of the exhaust port on the inside was beveled outward into the cylinder so like the pictures I looked at I made the other side beveled outward to try and match.
It was not so noticeable that my lines are not perfect until I saw my photos. I didn't expect to do an outstanding job on the first try anyway. I spent about 5 hours on it so far.
So basically I opened it up a tiny bit and smoothed and polished.
In the top there was a defect that was two lines that were deep, in the photo you can see a couple little black marks at the bottom of the photo which is where I dremel-ed and sanded on the defect.
*I was afraid this area would make a hotspot like Ive seen in auto block videos so I did my best to get this smoothed out. I'm sure the right thing to do is to have it machined to a flat surface but for now I think this will do, correct me if I'm wrong please.
*On the top exterior jug I cut some fins off to make room for a decompression port.
I decided I might should see if one is needed before I install one, so if I have to take the cylinder back out to install it if it is rough on the shoulder when trying to start it then I'll just have to install it.
I think I read that anything much over 70cc needs the decompression port, but not certain.
Only time I got hurt was on a 100cc engine once when it snatched back hurt like double hockey sticks.
In the one photo there are three jugs, left to right is an 036 then the oem 50mm and on left is the mahle upgrade.
I read that the upgrade will bring it up to 76cc but I read another post that said it will kick it up to about 83cc.
Probably the upgrade with a expert port job would deliver that kind of results..the 83cc results that is.
So here are my photos and questions.
*Should the intake be oval on top or bottom?
*Will a smoothed out top with a minor impression to the flat surface be ok? or is it asking for a problems out the gate?
*Should I go ahead and install the decompression port or does it not not require one at the cc's I'm talking about?
*I picked up a 9mm tap and a 11/32 drill bit for the decompression port hole will the 11/32 work ok for the 9mm? it is slightly undersized but my other option was slightly oversized at the store.
sizes are 23/64 .3594 - .3543 - 11/32 .3438 All I could find was fractional drill bits and not decimal at the hardware store.
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Inside

Exhaust
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Intake
 
:wtf:

Sorry for the Imogee above, just seemed fitting. I'm a beginner too.

You picked a rare/desirable/expensive jug to play with. It's yours now, so make the best of it. Not sure what you picked it up on eBay for.

It should make it the same CC size as a 046/460. I believe the 85cc size is with the 54mm big block POS. you picked the right jug.

Did you cut the squish band?

It's tough to tell the arch on the exhaust port roof from the inside without a ring in place. Kinda an optical illusion. It needs to be arched though.

As for the floor of your exhaust, make sure you mount it on a saw and see what your piston base looks like at TDC. See if you can see any space under it. That's called "Freeporting" and a bit is OK, but a lot is bad. That's the measure that usually limits your floor depth or the amount you can lower the jug on the piston. I've never built an 046 hybrid, so I'm taking theory here. Someone who knows better will chime in on this.

Your port work looks nice. Hopefully it's placed correctly and will work well for you.

I 100% would NOT have ground down those fins or tried to add decomp. That's just my opinion.

Please post the final product. What may look wrong to some of us can sometimes be a pleasant surprise.

Best of luck on this build.
 
This is actally a mako cylinder I know I said it is a mahle but I confused it with the 036.
Looks like I have to get the cylinder shaved or cut down just a little, is that common to have to do with aftermarkets?
And if I can't find someone local that can do it who is reasonably good to get to do this that I can send it to? considering the price is comfortable for me.
tested with .05 rosin core solder
old stihl 50mm cyl depth from sq bnd to bottom of cyl 71.834 - the squish is .03 w/.016 gasket
mako 52mm cylinder " " " " """ 72.817 - sq w/no gasket .042 nofreeporting
72.817 - 71.834 = 00.983 difference
so today when I got these numbers I said well I have .042 and I want to get to .02 +/- I can remove .02 to .022 off the bottom and use the yama seal or if I want to use the gasket then remove another .016 to make it .036 removed. but with the freeporting that was mentioned it seems I would want to takes as little as possible off so I should go with the .02 maybe even .022

This is all my work not so I'm the one responsible, if I goof then I get another cylinder and get it right. So please realize I won't point the finger at anyone but me lol.
Ok I think I'm through editing this.
I'm not asking any one specifically so feel free to pipe up :givebeer:
 
The way you're posting is confusing. Use cap, punctuation, separate topics/questions with spaces and use the RETURN button between topics.

I may be speaking for myself, but you're hard to follow.

I'm interested as hell to see how your saw runs. You need to hook up a degree wheel and see where your ports are at.

A lot of guys here would cut the base for you for a 6-12 pack. You pay shipping.
 
Did you see where I explained my squish is .042? so if I ad a gasket I won't even be able to measure squish any more because the gap between piston and top squish band will be so large I won't be able to pinch a piece of solder.

I'm still trying to find someone local to shave off the .022 off the cylinder base.
 
I talked to a local today that has a bike shop. He rebuilds bikes and jet ski's.
He said the only way he deals with the cheap jugs is to send them out for a bore and sleeve, said costs 200.00 to do that.
Then you have some safety with any porting you want to do.
He didn't know anybody that makes a sleeve as small as a chain saw.
Said the coatings are sealed in with some type of sealant and as soon as you drill any of it even to shave a base that your break the seal and the nikasil or chrome or what ever is coated inside will start coming off and ruin the piston.
With that said I'm going to scrap this cylinder and get something else and do no porting or anything.
The mako jug looked really good inside except for the defect in the top squish band so I don't think I'll get another.
I just want a good rebuild on this ms440 so I can get it back to milling.
I appreciate the help you guys were trying to give me.
 
My local machine shop cut the cylinder on a end mill I just finished it with sand paper on a flat surface. Never had any problems with nikasil chipping or coming off.
 
I talked to a local today that has a bike shop. He rebuilds bikes and jet ski's.
He said the only way he deals with the cheap jugs is to send them out for a bore and sleeve, said costs 200.00 to do that.
Then you have some safety with any porting you want to do.
He didn't know anybody that makes a sleeve as small as a chain saw.
Said the coatings are sealed in with some type of sealant and as soon as you drill any of it even to shave a base that your break the seal and the nikasil or chrome or what ever is coated inside will start coming off and ruin the piston.
With that said I'm going to scrap this cylinder and get something else and do no porting or anything.
The mako jug looked really good inside except for the defect in the top squish band so I don't think I'll get another.
I just want a good rebuild on this ms440 so I can get it back to milling.
I appreciate the help you guys were trying to give me.
The guy you talked to doesn't know what he's talking about. So much wrong info there I wouldn't know where to start
 
What wrong with the original jug?

The fleabayer that sold the 440 to me didn't tell me about the helicoil. It puked the plug on the second day I used it.
I bought it for 380 so I figured if I can keep the purchase and repair below 500 then I'd still have a good saw, so I just kept it.

The guy you talked to doesn't know what he's talking about. So much wrong info there I wouldn't know where to start
When I inspected the cylinder better after the news about the coatings, I realized I already had a couple chips inside.

Question: Do you know anybody that has ported these aftermarkets and run them for a long time?

Nother question: Are stihl jugs coated in any way?
 
I have never had any luck with aftermarket. Meteor are OK but I've never had a problem with the OEM stihl cylinders nikasil coating. Most aftermarket company's nikasil is either really thin or hard chrome which chips of extremely easy.
 
If you want to cut the base or squish band on any cylinder, put it in a box and send it to someone who knows what they are doing. Mastermind did one for me not a while back... It cost around $50, IIRC. There are many other guys around here that could do it for you, as well.

I would look for a good used OEM cylinder, if it was my saw. They tend to be higher quality and run better than AM jugs, even big bore kits.
 
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