Muriatic acid treatment on cyl video

[RiverRat2]

Muriatic acid is a common name for hydrochloric acid. And the above posters are correct; any decent hardware store will carry a supply, as would any plumbing supply house.

Brad is correct on small pinholes. I had the three jugs of my '00 Polaris xcr-800 re-nic'ed by Millenium Technologies, and when I received them I saw what I thought were pinholes, only to find out they are tiny pits, imperfections that are common in plated cylinders, but they do not hurt performance or reliability at all. Millenium even sent me hardcopy of their warranty which includes the terminology so I am still covered. Unfortunately they cannot do "blind-hole" jugs, which means they cannot do saw jugs. I am sure someone should be able to do them though.

On the aforementioned 028 jug, I'd get it off the shelf and give life to that saw and not worry at all.

US Chrome does blind hole jugs,,, have it ported,chamferd like you want and send the piston/rings you want to run and they will make it fit!!!

 

[redunshee]

I do all the toxic stuff outside...I don't want to breathe that stuff. Not even in a shop.

Here,here! I made a mistake a breathed in some of the fumes. Thought I was going to barf, but couldn't. Not pretty.

 

[Husky1982]

Great video, I haven't done this to a chainsaw cylinder yet, but i am sure I will. I have done it to a Yamaha Banshee (twin cylinder 2 stroke ATV) in the past on one cylinder that ran dry. Applied the acid, let it work and then used a dingle berry hone to bring the cross hatches back and it worked great. Only had to replace the piston. I am a firm believer in synthetic 2-stroke oil. I use Amsoil Dominator 2-stroke racing oil in everything I got and won't use anything but that. Again, great video.

 

[hotshot]

Chrome ID

Thanks skippy!

I hear you on the piston, but I have so little into it at this point that can't see spending alot of time trying to find a "quality" replacement 54mm piston for this cylinder. There are so many crap aftermarket pistons out there that are probably worse than what I've got.

I guess I should really base this decision off of some real data. What measurements would you use? Dia. at the bottom of the skirt? Dia. at the top of the piston?

Also, both the piston and cylinder are labeled Mahale. I thought all Mahale cylinders were Nikasil. Can you tell chrome or Nikasil from the numbers on the cylinder?

Look for a capital "S" with a circle around it, either stamped on the cylinder top/base side & for one on the piston crown.
I remember an article that states you cannot use the standard Stihl cast piston, but it did not explain why.

 

[starsailor]

Look for a capital "S" with a circle around it, either stamped on the cylinder top/base side & for one on the piston crown.
I remember an article that states you cannot use the standard Stihl cast piston, but it did not explain why.

Hotshot,

Is that mark supposed to indicate chrome or Nikasil?

I have no capital "S" with a circle around it on the cylinder. There is a similar marking on one side of the crown of the piston though, 11- capital "S" with a square around it and an "->" pointing to the exhaust side.

The cylinder is marked as follows:

1. On a flat next to the spark plug hole 0 over 9 next to a big capital "C" next to 7 over 7.
2. On one the side of the bottom flange (intake to the right) "MAHALE" and in between the fins over that a "F" over a "V".
3. On the other side of the bottom flange (exhaust to the right) "54ZN9 W4" and below the bottom fin above that "++++++".

The cylinder measures as follows with a digital caliper: 53.98mm to 54.02mm

The piston is marked as follows:

1. Mark on crown described above.
2. Also on crown a capital "C" on the intake side.
3. On the inside of the intake skirt "Mahale" and and "54L46++".
4. On the inside of the exhaust skirt "R031".

Piston measures as follows with a digital caliper:

1. Across top above (top) compression ring: 53.59mm to 53.79mm
2. Across bottom of skirts: 53.64mm to 53.94mm

Do any of these markings definitively indicate what I have? Also how do these measurements sound for a usable piston and/or cylinder?

 

[hotshot]

Circle S for chrome

Sounds like you have a standard cylinder, & the circled "S" (or "SIL") article was in the Intertec
Penton Chainsaw Service manual in one of the Stihl sections. The "C" stamping on both the
piston & cylinder is the tolerance size coding, and they're probably the original OEM Mahle
parts. The boxed S is a Stihl logo I've seen often on parts.

I still can't think metric clearances in my head, but your minimum skirt measurement is too
worn to re-use for that piston ported saw. For a 54mm (2.126") bore, I personally wouldn't
re-use a piston with less than 2.120" on the skirts, as it will spit fuel back through the carb
when idling & running, quickly fouling the air filter as crap sticks to it more. If it's an occasional
use saw, then I'd run it. There are still some original OEM piston kits with "C" stampings for those
Super 045/056 series around, #1115-030-2002.

For the Intertec article on the "SIL" marked cylinder/pistons, go to this link http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/197482.htm
then select Stihl under outdoor power equipment, then select the 075/076 series pdf, & look at page 537.

Sounds like they are calling the Mahle "Nikasil" cylinders "chrome", but were non chrome ones too that took a different piston. Probably does not apply to the S045/056 series cylinders after all, as I've seen the insides of better than fourty to fifty cylinders, & they were all Nikasil plated.

 

[Roanoker494]

Just getting a helpful thread back to the top........

 

[sld961]

Sorry to necro-post, but can someone provide this video or a similar one?It's not available after the switch-over. I'm about to do my first cylinder cleaning and I'm trying to read/learn everything I can before I try it. I tried Googling it, but none of the links work from Google.

 

[Mastermind]

I've changed my method on cylinder cleanup. I don't use acid at all now.

 

[sld961]

I've changed my method on cylinder cleanup. I don't use acid at all now.

Please enlighten me.

 

[tbone75]

Sorry to necro-post, but can someone provide this video or a similar one?It's not available after the switch-over. I'm about to do my first cylinder cleaning and I'm trying to read/learn everything I can before I try it. I tried Googling it, but none of the links work from Google.

There is another way I have been using lately. Tape a piece of scotch bright to a wooden dowel rod,chuck it in a drill,wind it up and clean out the transfer. Been working very well or me ! I have been using some rough scotch bright,but most any of it will work.

 

[sld961]

I like it. I'll give that a shot tonight. Thanks.

 

[Jimmy in NC]

Been meaning to try the scotch brite... no free time.

 

[Mastermind]

Please enlighten me.

I've made several split mandrels from drill rod. I use them to hold emery cloth in various grits to sand the transfer out. I start with 180 grit, end with ScotchBrite. This way, using a mandrel about 1/4" in diameter, I can just sand directly on the transfer without getting on the plating much if any. If you think it's easy to sand thru the plating, try it on an old jug sometime.

Using acid, if there is a spot that has a small scratch thru the plating you can quickly ruin a jug that could be saved. The acid will attack the underlying aluminum and make the scratch much worse, very rapidly. The same it true for a spot that is thin.....the acid will eat thru there in a hurry.

 

[pioneerguy600]

There is another way I have been using lately. Tape a piece of scotch bright to a wooden dowel rod,chuck it in a drill,wind it up and clean out the transfer. Been working very well or me ! I have been using some rough scotch bright,but most any of it will work.

Those wheels I showed you work fantastic.

 

[chuckwood]

OK,i dont need a critique on the quality of the video,i know it sucks but it may help those that are thinking about doing this to clean up a cylinder..
i did the best i could
i guess personal protection and ventelation and NOT breathing the fumes are the most important things i could add..
any suggestions,facts to add,tricks,or anything else to help out somebody that wants to do this and has not tried yet are more than welcome of course....
BTW.. the cyl was not saveable,had burned through the plating above and below the exhaust port..

Somehow, my settings must not be right, I click but no video plays. I've done a few successful cylinder restores with
muriatic acid. The first was with a Husky 350 cylinder that had seized. There was a lot of aluminum to scrub off. I
got tired with the slow speed of the reaction and I started wet sanding inside the cylinder with 400 grit paper. It
seemed to make the job go faster. I tried to wet sand in a pattern to make a new sort of cross hatch pattern on the nikasil. I've not seen this recommended anywhere, so there may be reasons not to do it. My theory is that the sandpaper will take
off aluminum much quicker than it will remove any nikasil, and that it might benefit the nickasil which just gets just a slight scuffing. I have heard that the special chainsaw engine cylinder hones do something like this, and you have to be careful not
to overdo it and cut through the coating. So was I doing right - that there's no way to damage the nikasil by wet
sanding with acid? The saw runs great now. Basically all I had to purchase for the job was a new piston, some acid, rubber
gloves, and sandpaper.

 

[stubnail67]

how about a how to video with the scotch brite pad....i would love to see it....

 

[sld961]

I too would like to see a video. Or at least some pics of your dowel rods/sanding set up.

 

[angelo c]

I've made several split mandrels from drill rod. I use them to hold emery cloth in various grits to sand the transfer out. I start with 180 grit, end with ScotchBrite. This way, using a mandrel about 1/4" in diameter, I can just sand directly on the transfer without getting on the plating much if any. If you think it's easy to sand thru the plating, try it on an old jug sometime.

Using acid, if there is a spot that has a small scratch thru the plating you can quickly ruin a jug that could be saved. The acid will attack the underlying aluminum and make the scratch much worse, very rapidly. The same it true for a spot that is thin.....the acid will eat thru there in a hurry.

Randy, you using that set up in a lathe or a boring bar. Or free handing it with a drill ?

 

[Mastermind]

I free hand it in a Foredom #30 handpiece.