my invention....opinions?

[mga]

my ranch house is "L" shape with the fireplace in the center front part of the house. down the hallway is 3 bedrooms and the master bath. the house is 2000 sq. ft.

the way i have my fireplace set up, it heats the whole house really nice, even on the coldest days. not a problem with that.

i use something called a "heat stream". the logs sit on the grate which is a series of tubes that vent under the glass doors into a 1" opening. there was a blower attached to the end that would blow air thru the pipes and back out under the glass doors. i've been really happy with this set up, plus my fire box is a thick metal box that also conducts heat thru vents on the sides.

i'd like to get more heat down to the far end of the house. the blower is a pain in the ass because it makes noise and i hate it. i don't want to use fans either to blow the air down the hallway.

so...this is my new invention: i ran a 4" flex line and attached it to the heat stream opening (it's on the ends) i then ran that thru an opening in the wall then down into the basement.

in the far bedroom, i want to make an opening on an inside wall and into the floor inside the wall. then, box in the floor joists under that and run 2" PVC pipe from there for 33 feet. then, attach that pipe to an inducer motor i picked up, then run 2" pvc from there to meet the 4 inch flex line.

everything is sealed with caulking. now, when i turn on the inducer motor, it will draw air from the far room and push that thru the fireplace thing. as the motor creates a negative air pressure in the bedroom, it will draw the warm air from the front to replace it, creating a cycling of air.

the inducer motor is very quiet, since it comes off a furnace. so, while sitting in the room with the fireplace, i no longer will have a noisy fan running. the inducer motor is rated at something like 300 CFM's.

as a temporary trial, i attached another blower the the 4 inch flex line with the blower sitting on the basement floor right now. so far it works great with that set up, but i don't want to draw cold air from the basement.

before i begin spending money on 50 feet of pvc and fittings, shouldn't this work in theory? i thought it was a great idea...lol

i also intend to put a wall switch upstairs with a rheostat to speed up or slow down the inducer motor as needed.

whadda ya think?

 

[Mike Van]

2 or 4 inch pipe seems small to me for moving air? I'd think you'd want 6 at least.

 

[mga]

2 or 4 inch pipe seems small to me for moving air? I'd think you'd want 6 at least.

true, but an induction motor was designed to push a high volume of air via 2" pvc pipe. it spins quietly at 3650 rpm's

 

[rick2752]

Try running your furnace fan full time. It will circulate the warm air throughout the house. I have a wood stove in basement and when I burn it I run the furnace blower fan. The cold air returns suck the heat up and run it thru the house.

 

[jburlingham]

MGA have you ever heard the term 'back puffing'? It's when volatile gasses build up in the firebox for any number of reasons....and get hit with oxygen...and a minor explosion occurs. This explosion during a time when power to your fan is off could result in embers being blown back into your duct system......and your duct system is not fireproof.

Also depending on wind conditions if your power is ever off during a storm...meaning your fan is off..... and a downdraft condition exist in your wood heating system....hot embers could be drawn into your duct-work.

I'm sounding the fire hazard alarm!

Your set up is sending up red flags here. Sometimes free advice is worth less then it cost....but it also may save lives.

I agree with Treeco on this Item. As a firefighter and fire Investigator I have seen a number of fires caused by something that appears to be a good Idea. regular heat/ AC duct piping isn't that expensive perhaps closely comparable to PVC, and well worth a slight cost difference.
Though most jurisdictions the FMO cannot inspect a single family residence the issue comes down the road from the insurance co.
If you were to do something that doesn't meet the building/fire code and there is a fire that can be tied to the installation then the Insurance company can refuse to pay.
I would look into a piping that has either a rating for heater ducting, or at very least something made of metal or foil (even if it's dryer hose) after all that way you can argue ignorance and say that you were trying to use something that normally sees a degree of heat and looks to be metal.

 

[mga]

Try running your furnace fan full time. It will circulate the warm air throughout the house. I have a wood stove in basement and when I burn it I run the furnace blower fan. The cold air returns suck the heat up and run it thru the house.

unfortunately, i have hot water base board heat.

if i spend several thousand i could get a wood/gas boiler, but that means doing extensive changes to my chimney.

when i get this air thing hooked up, i'll post back on how well it works.

 

[StihltheOne]

unfortunately, i have hot water base board heat.

if i spend several thousand i could get a wood/gas boiler, but that means doing extensive changes to my chimney.

when i get this air thing hooked up, i'll post back on how well it works.

I have laid in bed many a nights thinking of something just like what you are describing. My thoughts are to run the warm air through 3" pvc from the "hot" room of the house through the back of the cupboard, and into the back of the house, or to run the same system, backward to create the negative pressure to coaz a bit of warm air into the back of the house.

 

[dingeryote]

my ranch house is "L" shape with the fireplace in the center front part of the house. down the hallway is 3 bedrooms and the master bath. the house is 2000 sq. ft.

the way i have my fireplace set up, it heats the whole house really nice, even on the coldest days. not a problem with that.

i use something called a "heat stream". the logs sit on the grate which is a series of tubes that vent under the glass doors into a 1" opening. there was a blower attached to the end that would blow air thru the pipes and back out under the glass doors. i've been really happy with this set up, plus my fire box is a thick metal box that also conducts heat thru vents on the sides.

i'd like to get more heat down to the far end of the house. the blower is a pain in the ass because it makes noise and i hate it. i don't want to use fans either to blow the air down the hallway.

so...this is my new invention: i ran a 4" flex line and attached it to the heat stream opening (it's on the ends) i then ran that thru an opening in the wall then down into the basement.

in the far bedroom, i want to make an opening on an inside wall and into the floor inside the wall. then, box in the floor joists under that and run 2" PVC pipe from there for 33 feet. then, attach that pipe to an inducer motor i picked up, then run 2" pvc from there to meet the 4 inch flex line.

everything is sealed with caulking. now, when i turn on the inducer motor, it will draw air from the far room and push that thru the fireplace thing. as the motor creates a negative air pressure in the bedroom, it will draw the warm air from the front to replace it, creating a cycling of air.

the inducer motor is very quiet, since it comes off a furnace. so, while sitting in the room with the fireplace, i no longer will have a noisy fan running. the inducer motor is rated at something like 300 CFM's.

as a temporary trial, i attached another blower the the 4 inch flex line with the blower sitting on the basement floor right now. so far it works great with that set up, but i don't want to draw cold air from the basement.

before i begin spending money on 50 feet of pvc and fittings, shouldn't this work in theory? i thought it was a great idea...lol

i also intend to put a wall switch upstairs with a rheostat to speed up or slow down the inducer motor as needed.

whadda ya think?

MGA,

Have ya thought about just doing an insert that is alrady set up to feed ducting or flex vent, and those little negative pressure registers?

I know Quadrafire has a couple models set up for remotes, and if they run like mine does, you'll be opening windows in January.

That tubing set up ya have, might be alright at a lower air speed, but how well will it do at a higher velocity needed for what you are doing?

I dunno. The Idea seems sound except for the surface area needed, and the potential for a crack in what is essentially a heat exchanger in the firebox sucking flammable(Explosive) gases into another room where the air is cooler and more dense.......making a Bomb outta your house. Ever see a flashover from the inside of a structure? Scary #### Mang!

Meh...
I ain't tellin' ya what to do.
Just sayin there might be a safer and more efficient way to do the same thing, and get you some of that Green weenie tax credit $$$$ to boot.

At least do a water pressure test on those tubes to find any leaks before ya do anything.... and post Pics!

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[mga]

dinger....point taken.


but, this set up will only be drawing room temp air from the furthest room of the house and using that air to feed the fireplace's heat stream thing.

then, that air is heated and dispersed under the glass doors. my theory is that as it draws the air from that far room, it will be replaced by the warm air being drawn down the hallway.

as it stands right now, my set up, believe it or not, works very well. we never have to turn on our primary heat source unless i run out of wood. but, the front of the house gets really warm, say in the 80's, while the furthest room gets maybe 68 to 70.

now, i know those numbers are good, but, i'm looking for ways to improve on that. ( i do things like that...drives my wife nuts)

 

[KsWoodsMan]

If it keeps the wife crazy , I'm all for it.

This sounds like you are supplying the cold air for the heat exchanger with air from a different part of the house besides the grate room. In theory you should have a more even heat throughout the rest of the house.

Since the circulated air isn't mixing with combustible gasses it sounds safe enough from how I read you describing it.

 

[mga]

If it keeps the wife crazy , I'm all for it.

This sounds like you are supplying the cold air for the heat exchanger with air from a different part of the house besides the grate room. In theory you should have a more even heat throughout the rest of the house.

Since the circulated air isn't mixing with combustible gasses it sounds safe enough from how I read you describing it.

exactly, bro.

so, you agree that in theory it should work fine...right?

i'm going to start on it next week.

 

[turnkey4099]

my ranch house is "L" shape with the fireplace in the center front part of the house. down the hallway is 3 bedrooms and the master bath. the house is 2000 sq. ft.

the way i have my fireplace set up, it heats the whole house really nice, even on the coldest days. not a problem with that.

i use something called a "heat stream". the logs sit on the grate which is a series of tubes that vent under the glass doors into a 1" opening. there was a blower attached to the end that would blow air thru the pipes and back out under the glass doors. i've been really happy with this set up, plus my fire box is a thick metal box that also conducts heat thru vents on the sides.

i'd like to get more heat down to the far end of the house. the blower is a pain in the ass because it makes noise and i hate it. i don't want to use fans either to blow the air down the hallway.

so...this is my new invention: i ran a 4" flex line and attached it to the heat stream opening (it's on the ends) i then ran that thru an opening in the wall then down into the basement.

in the far bedroom, i want to make an opening on an inside wall and into the floor inside the wall. then, box in the floor joists under that and run 2" PVC pipe from there for 33 feet. then, attach that pipe to an inducer motor i picked up, then run 2" pvc from there to meet the 4 inch flex line.

everything is sealed with caulking. now, when i turn on the inducer motor, it will draw air from the far room and push that thru the fireplace thing. as the motor creates a negative air pressure in the bedroom, it will draw the warm air from the front to replace it, creating a cycling of air.

the inducer motor is very quiet, since it comes off a furnace. so, while sitting in the room with the fireplace, i no longer will have a noisy fan running. the inducer motor is rated at something like 300 CFM's.

as a temporary trial, i attached another blower the the 4 inch flex line with the blower sitting on the basement floor right now. so far it works great with that set up, but i don't want to draw cold air from the basement.

before i begin spending money on 50 feet of pvc and fittings, shouldn't this work in theory? i thought it was a great idea...lol

i also intend to put a wall switch upstairs with a rheostat to speed up or slow down the inducer motor as needed.

whadda ya think?

Just a WAG but I suspect your ductwork plans are too small. Air is rather difficult to move in long runs. You will get some heat back there but I wouldnt expect mass amounts of it. Again, that is just a shade tree guess.

Harry K

 

[mga]

Just a WAG but I suspect your ductwork plans are too small. Air is rather difficult to move in long runs. You will get some heat back there but I wouldnt expect mass amounts of it. Again, that is just a shade tree guess.

Harry K

understood, but,i'm limited on the CFM's going into the heat exchanger. too little, then it would not be efficient. too much, then it would not grab enough heat.

i did a trial run with about 20 feet of pvc pipe and it seem to blow the air quite well. but, granted, i'm running about a total of 40 feet. 30 of that for the "draw", and the rest will end in a 2 x 4 coupling to attach to my 4 inch flex line which is attached to the heat exchanger thing.

the motor will be located about 30 feet from the far room, which means i'm hoping it will "suck" enough air thru that distance. that's my real concern.

remember, these induction blowers are the ones used on high efficiency furnaces to exhaust the heat exchanger. they need to push air thru a 2 inch pvc pipe, so they design them a little different than a regular blower.

but, i figure the blower motor was only 10 bucks, the PVC was free, so, if i spend a couple of hours playing with it and it doesn't work as expected, i'm not losing too much.

 

[Mike Van]

Just a few quick figures - A 2" round has 6.28 s.i. of area, a 6" round has 18.8 - A 2x12 rectangle has 24. Just my .02, but I don't think you'll move enough air in that 2 incher to make a difference. Unless you hook it up to the reverse flow on a shop-vac. And who wants that? Your 4" flex hose will impede air movement too, as it's not smooth inside. You asked for opinions, I think it's a lose/lose situation. Lots of work, very little to show for it at the end.

 

[smokinj]

4 in. here it is http://cgi.ebay.com/New-4-Inch-200-...in_0?hash=item414743e701&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
that will move enough cold air

 

[mga]

Just a few quick figures - A 2" round has 6.28 s.i. of area, a 6" round has 18.8 - A 2x12 rectangle has 24. Just my .02, but I don't think you'll move enough air in that 2 incher to make a difference. Unless you hook it up to the reverse flow on a shop-vac. And who wants that? Your 4" flex hose will impede air movement too, as it's not smooth inside. You asked for opinions, I think it's a lose/lose situation. Lots of work, very little to show for it at the end.

thanks, mike. i'll consider those figures.

 

[mga]

4 in. here it is http://cgi.ebay.com/New-4-Inch-200-...in_0?hash=item414743e701&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
that will move enough cold air

yea, i looked at those. sweet little blowers they are. unfortunately, my old lady has some serious doubts about this, so until i can prove to her it will work, i'm not allowed to spend my money.

LOL....married life sucks.

 

[smokinj]

yea, i looked at those. sweet little blowers they are. unfortunately, my old lady has some serious doubts about this, so until i can prove to her it will work, i'm not allowed to spend my money.

LOL....married life sucks.

lol I have a 6 in on my furance its 747 cfm its a bad boy! yep what your trying to do is going to take some power! and you could just dump it close to your insert and making a convection if you will,or cold air return doesnt have to go inside the stove

 

[KsWoodsMan]

A 15'x15'x8' room is 1800 cubic feet. So , every 6 minutes a 300 cfm blower would move a roomful of air. The coldest of the air stays on the floor. I would presume that the cold air intake will be on the floor. Every minute the fan will move the bottom 16" of cold air off the floor back to the heat source.

I don't expect it to be perfect but I do see it to be an improvement in the back bedrooms. Any improvement IS an improvement afterall.

A larger duct for the 40 ft run will put less restriction on the blower so it will work at optimum. I'm pretty sure that you can get more work from the pressure side than the vacuum side of a fan/pump. So the shorter the intake side of the duct the better. Or make it larger, either way it will be less restriction on the vacuum side of the fan.

It seemed sound when it was typed. If none of that makes sense, starting this morning, today has been a blur that I don't wish to repeat.

 

[mga]

basic drawing......

sorry it's a little crude....did it fast just on Paint.