My stupid attack this week.

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John Paul Sanborn

John Paul Sanborn

Above average climber
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Out in a wooded mixed farm residential comunity, high end clientel. My client was finnishing a brush clearing, mostly buckthorn/honeysuckle. I was felling elm snags and doing some habitat work on a few big dead ash.

One of these dead elms was hung up on a box elder from an old felling cit that apeared to have failed from decaywood.

I made about 4 hinged undercuts for it to slide down the tree it was hug in. Had a pull rope there incase the hinges did not fail after I ran out.

Everything went well till the last cut, this one the hinge went out perfectly. For some stupid reason I ran out right in line with the fall:confused:. This hard old dead elm got me right in the shoulder, ckonced me to the ground. Little stiff, ad got a 4x6 inch patch of rug burn from my shirt.:rolleyes:
 
And a coat of armor.....


.......Sir Lancelot to the rescue.....
 
Not really leaners but trees that are hung up or lodged in other trees should be pulled down or pushed over by some mechanical means. (osha)

Now having stated the rule it only makes sense that some situations will differ from one another.
Some trees might need to be cut and rigged but where no other obsticles are present pulling the lodged tree with a winch or pushing it with heavy equipment should be considered before attempting to cut it at the base with a chainsaw.
 
Graeme could have blasted the tree :)

Kevin,

Can you site chpater and verse on the OSHA reg about pulling hangers by mechanical means? Sounds like a logging standard but I'd like to know for sure.

Tom
 
Tom,
This is a logging rule but when it comes to felling trees and safety I don`t see where there`s much of a difference when safety is a concern.

(h)(2)(i)
Before felling is started, the feller shall plan and clear a retreat path. The retreat path shall extend diagonally away from the expected felling line unless the employer demonstrates that such a retreat path poses a greater hazard than an alternate path. Once the backcut has been made the feller shall immediately move a safe distance away from the tree on the retreat path.

OSHA's FCI report also indicates that felling operations are the most hazardous operation in the logging industry (Ex. 4-61). The report indicated that 43 percent of all employees who died did so when they were felling trees.

paragraph (h)(2)(i) of the final rule, OSHA requires that before a feller even begins felling a tree, a retreat path must be planned and cleared. This provision also requires that the retreat path extend diagonally away from the expected felling line. This provision also includes an exception to the diagonal retreat path when the employer demonstrates that in the particular situation such a retreat path is not feasible or poses a greater hazard than an alternative retreat path. The proposed rule contained a requirement for planning and clearing a retreat path before commencing cutting. However, the proposed rule required that the retreat path "extend back and diagonally to the rear" of the expected felling line.
This language also was contained in the 1978 ANSI logging standard.


h)(1)(vi)

Each danger tree shall be felled, removed or avoided. Each danger tree, including lodged trees and snags,shall be felled or removed using mechanical or other techniques that minimize employee exposure before work is commenced in the area of the danger tree. If the danger tree is not felled or removed, it shall be marked and no work shall be conducted within two tree lengths of the danger tree unless the employer demonstrates that a shorter distance will not create a hazard for an employee.
 
Yeah John if you were a foot shorter it would have probably hit you in the head. :eek:
 
I probably would not have ran so far either with shorter legs:D.

careless and complacent. yup yup.

I'd done about ten of them by that time and had only a few more to go before needing to climb anything.

I was calling myself all sorts of names for a few moments. Most bareing on my intelegance.
 
Hey JPS,This is perfectly ok if,#1-you were not hurt and#2 no one (especially the customer) was watching.
 
Whoa, i kinda don't think so!

Letting your guard down and the beast slip one in on ya, is well, um uhhhhhhhhhhhh well it is letting your guard down and the beast slip one in on ya!

Glad, u weren't hurt (as long as u take back the par.........;) )

Hmmmmmmmmm, i all ways thought that running fast was a lil'guys survival strategy!!!! At least i well remember phasing thru it!

i once heard of a fella doing it all right (not to get off subject JP!!!!!), butttttttt, he got killed with a brain bucket on when dropping a tree that dropped a piece of deadwood on him, coming down right on the back of his neck past the helmet. If ya think about it, living after that might be pretty bad and pretty uneventful!!! So, if i sight that risk out, i'll roll up a thick bath towel and pad across my sholders, collarbone and neck. Kinda makes sense that, after direct downward contact with head, that would be highest direct impact risk area. And a sensitive one at that, controlling almost as much as head!

Take Care;)
 
Hey JPS how big were the trees. I know I have to deal with hangups on a daily basis while thinning in conifer stands in the Sierra Nevada's of CA. Usually the trees are vertical and a pie cut and backcut will not work so I usually use what we call a TSI cut which is a downward sloping single cut through the tree. This allows the tree to drop straight down and and the top to fall the oppposite way the butt end goes. so there is some degree of control if you need to get it through some other trees. It is not a cut for the faint of heart though you have to be quick on the feet and never take your eyes off the tree. I read that in the prevoius posts that OSHA regs require mechanical means or other techniques to get hang up down. This is what I consider other techniques. The size of trees are usually under 15 to 16" DBH and are usually green trees but I have did this on larger 30" trees and snags and don't feel too comfortable with it on these sized trees. I Asked Doug Dent about this technique when I went through his class and he felt its main hazard was impaling your foot the the end of the tree as it slid apart. I agree but found that you always make sure the cut slides away from you and not towards you. Hope your felling OK JPS I have been conked on the noggin a few times over the years by small falling limbs and it amazing how hard those little limbs hit even from 10 to 20 feet up. Take care.
 
"I usually use what we call a TSI cut which is a downward sloping single cut through the tree. This allows the tree to drop straight down and and the top to fall the oppposite way the butt end goes. so there is some degree of control if you need to get it through some other trees."
Never heqrd of the TSI cut before.
How sloping is it?..... very much I would guess
What does TSI stand for?
What keeps the bar from getting pinched?
Do you start the cut from the high side and then finish with an "undercut" from the low side?
Why not use wedges?
Very interested.
Thanks and God Bless,
Daniel
 
I've done this enough, I'll take a stab at the questions.

"How sloping is it?"
45 dgrees or so, it's gotta slide off the lower peice.

"What keeps the bar from getting pinched?"
The tree is hung up and mostly vertical, so the top doesn't want to move. It doesn't close up until the last second, then your saw comes out as it slides apart.

"Do you start the cut from the high side and then finish with an "undercut" from the low side?"
The problem with this is you may make a ledge where the two cuts come together, which will prevent the two peices from sliding. If the wood starts to pinch your bar, you can still salvage the cut by pulling out the saw and under cutting until it breaks, sometimes.

"Why not use wedges?"
The idea of this technique is that it is fast and only requires one step, make the cut. Sliping a plastic wedge in about half way through would slove the problem of pinching, but it would be hazardous to try after the saw was pinched.

A safer cut would be to set up a notch and back cut, which won't do anything because the tree is vertical and hung up, then put your saw in a safe spot, and push or pull the butt the direction you want it to go(using a peice of machinery, of course).
 
If we have a hung tree that is getting support from the ground; i like knotching the compression side, backcutting that knotch almost to a point of failure. Then clear out, previous to this we have usually put a line in under the backcut. If in a few moments it doesn't collapse on it's own (closing the hinge, removing it's leg of support; causing it to fall); we tie this piec to the truck and pull it with truck, forcing hinge to fail, and that leg of support is removed tree comes down.

If it ends up 'floating', ie. no support from ground, we bowline it and pull it down till it has that type of support, that we can cause failure in.

Of course the best thing is not to get them hung up! This is where i try not to make slow gracefull falls, but rather use all the leverage and force available to power tree thru possible hangup. Also, i can use that triangle hinge to impart diffrent attitudes of the fall, as it comes thru an obstacle; of course i have to sight out that obstacle and schedule the fall for that. So, when meeting a possible hang or push from other trees to the right, i use similar strategies as a left leaner. In so much that a push from the right (to the left) is a force steering the fall like headweight pulling to the left, so is managed similarily.
 
I've done all that, I too would prefer crashing a fell through canopy, but have been in situations where it is not possible for one reason or another. I have intentionaly hung trees up in the canopy and pieced them down too.

My preferance now is to set a retrievable block and rig them out whenever possible, less damage to adjacent trees that way too. not always possible.

TSI, whatever it means, I use it a lot when topping out a removal too.

I think it is important that we share our stupidities. For us as a networking group and the lurkers that may be trying to learn from us.

I think about what would have happend to the people that could have found me; The lady who tends the horses on the property, or my buddy for whom I was working.
 
i think a man that can admit his faults and shortcomings is bigger, yes , even you!

"....a man has to know his limitations.." -Squint Eastwood movie

i am extra careful around holidaze, not wanting them to become a black memory for my family at what should be a happy time. Especially Christmas, then around the 1st of the year i realize that carefullness should carry thru everyday, so year by year i evolve that way.

Yes plotting the possibilities,and if trouble (hanging widow maker) or dammage is evident, then climbing instead of felling is called for, IMAO. The better, quicker the rigging becomes, the more likely this option is shown as eqitable.
 
Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn

I think it is important that we share our stupidities.
Click to expand...

Its ok to do stupid things, because you can learn from them. What's NOT ok is to let anybody else find out. You don't want to be admitting stuff like this, John. You could almost have gotten away with this one. Now, you'll have the lurkers ragging on you from the peanut gallery.

Just kidding!!

Anybody ever notice, in the 'Whose online now' section of this board, that the 'Guests' outnumber us?
 

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