Narrow kerf - 20" bar

[SawTroll]

Sawtroll, I can understand that the 20NK would be better for boring cuts as it doesn't have the bumper ramps that the 95VP has, but as for being less effective than other chains I don't understand 'why'.

I can also understand that a square cutter will cut faster than a round ground cutter, but that is not an option for the wood I cut.

I've taken the 95VP out a little over 6 degrees of cutting angle and it will chew through a log. For my tastes, that's a bit too agressive for limbing, so I prefer a 5 degree angle. However, the cutters on a .325 chain are closer together than a 3/8" chain so even with an aggressive cutting angle the .325 chain should still run relatively smooth.

The old wives tale about 'chip clearance' on the NK chains also doesn't appear true. Even with a 6 degree cutting angle and the 18" bar buried in softwood there was no indication of a chip clearance problem (except for the pile around my feet).

I must be missing something, as it seems to me that if someone needs a more aggressive chain, then increasing the cutting angle on a NK chain seems the logical answer. I'd rather load the engine with a deeper cut than a wider cut.

The main "problem" with the NK chain probably is that there are no chisel chain availiable - that is what I mainly use. Also, the rakers are larger than on the LP and BP chain, so it is closer to a "safety chain" (but still not as bad as the"3" chain from Stihl and some Carlton varieties). The LP(X) chain is on the same "safety" level as the RSC and LG(X), but is is done a bit differently. Very few chain today has no level of kickback reduction, RSK is the only one that comes to mind in 3/8", none in .325.

 

[Cliff R]

I haven't tried any narrow kerf chain set-ups, but have several saws set up with 3/8 LP.

I feel they are limited to about 16" bar length and 45cc due to bar "flex" and less integrity of the chains on them.

For my 50cc saws, I use 18" bars and .325".

60cc and larger 18" or longer bars with 3/8" set-ups.

I tried going to a longer 20" bar with 3/8" LP on a 50cc saw, and didn't like it. Just too much flex from the bar to make it effective for the type of cutting that I do. They are OK when you first start cutting, but as the chain looses it's "edge", and you start "pushing" the saw a bit, they just don't have the integrity to continue to cut well.

I've grown to like the 3/8" LP on smaller saws, they really cut fast without working the saw to death. Years ago I did all my cutting with the 480CD, and carried around a crappy 141 Husky to cut it loose if I got pinched. I used to laugh at anything smaller than 3/8" set ups and 20" bars. With all these little high speed small displacement saws available, and the fact I'm over 50 years old, the smaller saws see the most use these days!......Cliff

 

[CGC4200]

chain speed

I compared a 3/8 X 7 pin rim to a spare .325 X 7 pin rim.
The 3/8 was ~35 mm., the .325 was ~32 mm. diameter, looks like the 3/8
would give about 9% greater chain speed at same rpm. I have an 8 pin .325 mounted.
will measure next time I service the saw.
I like the .325 NK mainly for limbing, doesn't seem as grabby as 3/8.

 

[thomas72]

Works well when I cut logs out of a creek.

 

[Terry Syd]

CGC4200 - chain speed, of course!

The reason some 50cc saws cut faster with the 3/8" chain was because of the larger diameter drive sprocket. If an engine pulling 3/8" chain has enough power to keep the same engine speed as another engine pulling .325 - the one with the faster chain (in this case 9%) will/should cut faster.

Now if the ones that cut faster with the 3/8" chain had switched to .325 with an 8 pin they may have cut even faster.

 

[Modifiedmark]

CGC4200 - chain speed, of course!

The reason some 50cc saws cut faster with the 3/8" chain was because of the larger diameter drive sprocket. If an engine pulling 3/8" chain has enough power to keep the same engine speed as another engine pulling .325 - the one with the faster chain (in this case 9%) will/should cut faster.

Now if the ones that cut faster with the 3/8" chain had switched to .325 with an 8 pin they may have cut even faster.

Terry you have to remember that the folks here get a little anal about faster and faster.

When there talking about .325 being faster then 3/8's or vice versa most times its fractions of a second.

I have done a small amount of testing myeslf on this .325 vrs 3/8s stuff, tried it on 50cc saws, 55cc saws and 60cc saws with 7 pins 8 pins etc.

My results tell me you need a stopwatch to tell any differences and the differences are highly over rated here.

My self I seem to like .325 up to 50cc. I can go either way on the 55cc saws and when you get to 60cc its 3/8's time.

 

[aglicknmex]

20NK on Husky ported 262xp

Good discussion! Glad to see some interest in this set up. I cant say enough good things about running the lighter .325, 20 inch bar and 20NK chain. Ive never had a breakag----,boring, felling, limbing, bucking. For a small guy like me, weight and sharpness are really important. This chain stays sharp and like a few guys have said, who is out there measuring partial seconds when the work gets done safely and efficiently!! Dont worry about breaking this chain. If you do, its abuse anyway, its plenty strong.
Ive used the Baileys bar and the Oregons that come on some of the Husky 325 equipped saws. Keep the chain razor sharp and you wont wear out a lighter bar.
I cut mostly Ponderosa with big hard knots and White and Doug Fir. This is a terrific, fast cutting, easy to maintain combo!
I run a fast 262xp, a ported 154 and yes a ported Stihl 026, all with 20" bars. I only ever found the Stihl bars once at Baileys, but would really like to get another one. Any ideas on finding them??
n

 

[SawTroll]

I compared a 3/8 X 7 pin rim to a spare .325 X 7 pin rim.
The 3/8 was ~35 mm., the .325 was ~32 mm. diameter, looks like the 3/8
would give about 9% greater chain speed at same rpm. I have an 8 pin .325 mounted.
will measure next time I service the saw.
I like the .325 NK mainly for limbing, doesn't seem as grabby as 3/8.

The chain speed difference will be a bit larger than that, but it is just about the initial speed, out of wood. What happens in the wood is another story!

 

[Terry Syd]

Mark, I tend to get a bit anal about performance myself. Heck, I bought my first chainsaw and got a two year warranty - then two days later started pulling it apart and modifying it. I just have to know why things work so that I can get the best performance out of them.

Now that I have the knowledge about modifying chainsaw engines (specifically stratos), I need to pick up the finer points on chain modification. A person can get fixated on engine mods, but after this is a 'cutting instrument', and just like the fine points of sharpening an axe or a knife the chainsaw chain/bar has its own body of knowledge to learn.

I am fairly limited in the chain I can use, dirty (filthy?) wood is is 90%+ of what I cut and I feel a bit safer in the conditions I cut with a low-kickback chain. If I am going to be limited to a certain style of chain, then I want to get the best performance out of it I can.

I'll be giving that 95VPX a very close lookover when it arrives.

 

[Modifiedmark]

Mark, I tend to get a bit anal about performance myself. Heck, I bought my first chainsaw and got a two year warranty - then two days later started pulling it apart and modifying it. I just have to know why things work so that I can get the best performance out of them.

Now that I have the knowledge about modifying chainsaw engines (specifically stratos), I need to pick up the finer points on chain modification. A person can get fixated on engine mods, but after this is a 'cutting instrument', and just like the fine points of sharpening an axe or a knife the chainsaw chain/bar has its own body of knowledge to learn.

I am fairly limited in the chain I can use, dirty (filthy?) wood is is 90%+ of what I cut and I feel a bit safer in the conditions I cut with a low-kickback chain. If I am going to be limited to a certain style of chain, then I want to get the best performance out of it I can.

I'll be giving that 95VPX a very close lookover when it arrives.

Be sure to let us know what you think of it. I have not personally seen or used the newer VPX yet.

I also should clairify, that when I said 60cc was 3/8s time it was only my preference. My informal testing still didn't show much difference in speed at all.

 

[Terry Syd]

Well, I got the 20" bar and it looks like it will suit me fine for those bigger logs.

Now about that 95VPX - I started comparing the chain that was sent to me to my old 95VP chains and I couldn't find any difference. No wonder, the Baileys stock label on the end of the box called it 95VPX - but the box itself was labeled 95VP from Oregon.

I also remembered that the 95VPX came with a blue cutter. I confirmed that with the Oregon site and sure enough, this chain had the old style non-colored cutter.

They also sent me two chains of 78 links, which is indicated on the website for 20" bars, but the Husky bar requires 80 links (I found that 80 link chain on the second page). OK, my fault for not noticing the listed part number on the bar for the number of links.

Anyway, I thought I should mention all this in case someone else was going to be ordering. I'll try again with Baileys and see if they really do have the 95VPX chain in stock.

I can shorten one of the chains to 72 links (for my 18" bar) and then take two of the extra links and make an 80 link chain. I have done heaps of motorcycle and bicycle chains, but I have never done a chainsaw chain. Anybody have any information on what I need?

 

[Modifiedmark]

Well, I got the 20" bar and it looks like it will suit me fine for those bigger logs.

Now about that 95VPX - I started comparing the chain that was sent to me to my old 95VP chains and I couldn't find any difference. No wonder, the Baileys stock label on the end of the box called it 95VPX - but the box itself was labeled 95VP from Oregon.

I also remembered that the 95VPX came with a blue cutter. I confirmed that with the Oregon site and sure enough, this chain had the old style non-colored cutter.

They also sent me two chains of 78 links, which is indicated on the website for 20" bars, but the Husky bar requires 80 links (I found that 80 link chain on the second page). OK, my fault for not noticing the listed part number on the bar for the number of links.

Anyway, I thought I should mention all this in case someone else was going to be ordering. I'll try again with Baileys and see if they really do have the 95VPX chain in stock.

I can shorten one of the chains to 72 links (for my 18" bar) and then take two of the extra links and make an 80 link chain. I have done heaps of motorcycle and bicycle chains, but I have never done a chainsaw chain. Anybody have any information on what I need?

I don't know what bar you have but around here the 20" .325 bars do indeed use a 78DL chain.

 

[Terry Syd]

It's a Husky bar marked 508 92 61 - 80. It is 20"/50cm .325"/80DL .50"/1.3mm with the narrow kerf logo on it.

I even tried removing the clutch and to put it together as a unit. I can't even squeeze the sprocket onto the chain when the chain is on the bar. This bugger needs an 80 DL chain.

After looking at some of the threads on making up chains, I think I could get by with grinding the rivets off one side and then use my bicycle chainbreaker to push out the link (or push them out with a punch). Then get some joining links and use a hammer to flatten the rivets.

Maybe I should take it to the local shop and make sure it is done properly?

 

[SawTroll]

....... No wonder, the Baileys stock label on the end of the box called it 95VPX - but the box itself was labeled 95VP from Oregon.

I also remembered that the 95VPX came with a blue cutter. I confirmed that with the Oregon site and sure enough, this chain had the old style non-colored cutter.

They also sent me two chains of 78 links, which is indicated on the website for 20" bars, but the Husky bar requires 80 links (I found that 80 link chain on the second page). OK, my fault for not noticing the listed part number on the bar for the number of links.

Anyway, I thought I should mention all this in case someone else was going to be ordering. I'll try again with Baileys and see if they really do have the 95VPX chain in stock.

......

Yes, there are lots of options - and in this case both the costumer and the seller made mistakes....:waaaht:

.325 20" Husky bars always take 80dl, as far as I know.

 

[SawTroll]

......

Now if the ones that cut faster with the 3/8" chain had switched to .325 with an 8 pin they may have cut even faster.

I have tried that, with 21LP vs. 73LP on the 5100S and the NE346xp. In the wood I used, the .325x7 was fastest on both saws, but only with an insignificant amount (unless you are racing). Both chain were new, filed two strokes.

 

[Terry Syd]

ST, yeah I can see that now. It looks like the Arbopro takes a 78DL. The Woodland Pro chain comes in both 78 and 81DL (for the Husky bar?) for the 20" bar. So hopefully anyone contemplating getting a 20"NK bar will read this thread so they don't make the mistake I made.

I have to go into town tomorrow on business so I'll drop the chains off at the shop and have them do it.

I still want to get a couple of loops of the 95VPX to try. I'll report back what Baileys has to say about availability.

 

[SawTroll]

....
Ive used the Baileys bar and the Oregons that come on some of the Husky 325 equipped saws.
.......

Are you sure the bars that came on the Huskys actually are rebranded Oregons?

Husky makes a lot of the laminated bars themselves, and have done so for a long time.

 

[Modifiedmark]

ST, yeah I can see that now. It looks like the Arbopro takes a 78DL. The Woodland Pro chain comes in both 78 and 81DL (for the Husky bar?) for the 20" bar. So hopefully anyone contemplating getting a 20"NK bar will read this thread so they don't make the mistake I made.

I have to go into town tomorrow on business so I'll drop the chains off at the shop and have them do it.

I still want to get a couple of loops of the 95VPX to try. I'll report back what Baileys has to say about availability.

Terry, every small mount Husky .325 pitch bars that I have had, have taken the 78DL chains but they were not NK bars. Maybe they went with the odd DL count on just the NK bars to keep someone from running 95VP on a standard bar?

Don't make sense though as I have had NK and regular Husqvarna 18" bars and they both took the same 72DL count.

 

[bonden]

Here is my Logosol sawmill and Stihl 066 with narrow kerf 36" bar and low profile chain.

 

[SawTroll]

Terry, every small mount Husky .325 pitch bars that I have had, have taken the 78DL chains but they were not NK bars. Maybe they went with the odd DL count on just the NK bars to keep someone from running 95VP on a standard bar?

Don't make sense though as I have had NK and regular Husqvarna 18" bars and they both took the same 72DL count.

Both NK and Standard Husky bars in .325 take the same dl count in all lengths. Both are 80dl for 20" bars, at least currently. Aftermarket bars can of course be different, as lots of saw brands use the "small Husky" mount pattern, and it may have changed over time.

I see that Baileys offer Husky branded bars that are 78dl though - this is a bit odd......