Need a bit of advice outdoor woodstove..

[cstroke]

Ok

Here are all the details..

I have an old house around 2200 sf.. and a large shop a 28x 40 attached to a 38x40.

the wood stove will be located beside the shop 110' from my house.

Its an older Hardy stove that i "inherited" (it has some problems but im able to fix them)
I live in central pennsylvania and have access to hundreds of acres of hardwoods, lots of locust, oak, cherry, walnut you name it..

I'd like to run this stove for a while till I upgrade..

I've been researching piping thermo pex etc..

I have a line from my shop already, an empty 4" pvc line that is glued below frost line..

A) should I buy thermopex piping and be done with it, pay for the excavation and things associated with it??

B) make my own pex piping and insulate it with bubble wrap and pull it thru the existing conduit??

C) buy the pex piping with the bubble wrap and pay to have it excavated in??

The shop will be heated but probably just to take the chill off of it and possibly just part of it..

I know thermopex is great stuff but the heat loss in 110' would equate to how much wood??

and who sells thermopex in central pennsylvania, anyone know??

Im sort of on a budget till i get back to work..

I appreciate all your thoughts
thanks in advance..

 

[deutzman]

I installed and just got up and running about 4 weeks ago. I bought Thermoflex and have a loss of 2 deg. in a 100 ft. run and about 6 ft. is on top of the ground. It's cheaper than Thermopex . I paid $9 and change per ft. delivered and got 2- 1 1/4" pex in a 5 in. pipe. The 1 in or 3/4 will be less. I also live in an old house built in 1917. I used a 24"x24"x5" heat exchanger and with the set point at 170 I get 137 deg. air out of the duct. My neighbor next door has the same Central Boiler model and used 3/4" lines and a smaller exchanger and he gets 98 deg. out of the duct.

So read, search, study and ask questions. I read on this site for 4 months before I bought anything and it sure helped me make decisions. I sure appreciate this site and the folks that run it and the folks that post here. Lots and Lots of valuable information. If you want to know where I purchased the Thermopex pm me. Lots of good insulated pipe out there I'm sure. We all try and keep the cost down but still get good results. I'm very happy with what I chose.

 

[atlarge54]

Stay away from anything that has bubble wrap. When I put floor radiant in my crawl space I used some bubble wrap and some 1/2" foiled foam. There is no comparison it's obvious the heat passing through the bubble wrap is huge compared to a lousy 1/2" of foam. Underground I can't help but think the heat loss would be huge.

For underground lineset my choice would be pex with closed cell foamed in the trench, if you can find a local foam contractor that's competent.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

A) should I buy thermopex piping and be done with it, pay for the excavation and things associated with it??

Yes. Cry once, or cry forever.

B) make my own pex piping and insulate it with bubble wrap and pull it thru the existing conduit??

No. This is no place for redneck engineering.

C) buy the pex piping with the bubble wrap and pay to have it excavated in??

It's still redneck engineering even if you pay someone else to do it. Bubble wrap has it's place. This ain't it.

I know thermopex is great stuff but the heat loss in 110' would equate to how much wood??

A lot. the fun thing is, if you do a bastard job of it, you'll never know how much less wood you could have been burning! You'll think things are fine, and once in a while you'll wonder why you burn so much wood.



Waaaaay back when I was young I worked for a manufacturer's rep for commercial plumbing products. One of our lines was insulated copper pipe for industrial applications. I learned a lot about heat loss in piping, both in-ground and above ground.

I see people bragging about their amateur installations, and how they "only see a little snow melt", and I just shake my head. These people have no clue how much they don't know, and how much extra wood they are burning.

Do it right, or wait until you can.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Stay away from anything that has bubble wrap. When I put floor radiant in my crawl space I used some bubble wrap and some 1/2" foiled foam. There is no comparison it's obvious the heat passing through the bubble wrap is huge compared to a lousy 1/2" of foam. Underground I can't help but think the heat loss would be huge.

For underground lineset my choice would be pex with closed cell foamed in the trench, if you can find a local foam contractor that's competent.

Ah, the voice of REASON!


That bears repeating:


Stay away from anything that has bubble wrap.

 

[Windwalker7]

What I did;

When I installed my OWB I did my own pipe.

I have a 100' run.

I have 2, 1"and 2, 3/4" pex ( total of 4 pex pipes) inside a 6" pvc pipe. 2 for DHW and 2 for HX in plenum.


I insulated mine with Solar Guard. Solar Guard is basically like the foil bubble wrap except it has fiberglass instead of bubble wrap.

It is wrapped about 4-5 times around the 4 pex pipes. I have nothing seperating the pex.


The 6" pipe is burried 3'.

I have a Ranco thermostat at the OWB and a temperature gauge at the plenum in the basement.

Whether there is a difference in the two guages or what they always read the same temp. So I assume heat loss is minimal.

The logster type piping is awesome but if you already have a burried pvc pipe. Might try wrapping it yourself and pulling that through.

Be warned, pulling that pex through can be frustrating.

I used one of those flat metal drain cleaning eels and slid it through the pipe, tied a rope one the end, and pulled it back through.

I tied/duct taped it to the pex and pushed, pulled and shoved the pex through.

 

[Slick]

Any Central Boiler dealer will sell Thermopex,that is CB's line of insulated pex. If you want to stay on the cheap use that 4" conduit you have (assuming it's water tight) and pull pex covered in foam pipe insulation through it (no bubble wrap). If you want to dig it up use Thermopex.
Not sure where your at in central PA but my CB dealer is DLH in Danville, good guys, big rolls of Thermopex in stock whenever I'm there.

 

[1harlowr]

My install on my Hardy

I also used four pex lines as Windwalker7 did. I put mine inside a 4" pipe with three electrical lines (one for furnance, one spare, one for a light at the OWB) and a thermostat wire. All four are 5/8" lines. Wrapped the four pex inside a foam pipe insulation sleeve (3" I think). Run is 110' buried 4-6' deep up a hill to the OWB. I loose only 2 degrees from OWB to house.
I don't know how much extra wood I'm burning because of 2 degress vs 1 degree on some of the other stuff, but have to believe it's not much

If the line you have now is water tight, use it. If any water at all is getting in the pipe, replace it. Outside water getting to pex is the real enemy of heat lose if it's buried deep enough. Just my opinion though. I'd do it the same way again

 

[cstroke]

thanks for the replies..

im not to far from danville maybe 1.5 hrs..

I cant justify putting two 1" lines in and having to re do it anyhow.. over 300 in piping and the time to do it..
I absolutely hate doing things twice

ughhhh looks like i'll be crying once LOL..

 

[mtfallsmikey]

Yes. Cry once, or cry forever.





No. This is no place for redneck engineering.



It's still redneck engineering even if you pay someone else to do it. Bubble wrap has it's place. This ain't it.




A lot. the fun thing is, if you do a bastard job of it, you'll never know how much less wood you could have been burning! You'll think things are fine, and once in a while you'll wonder why you burn so much wood.



Waaaaay back when I was young I worked for a manufacturer's rep for commercial plumbing products. One of our lines was insulated copper pipe for industrial applications. I learned a lot about heat loss in piping, both in-ground and above ground.

I see people bragging about their amateur installations, and how they "only see a little snow melt", and I just shake my head. These people have no clue how much they don't know, and how much extra wood they are burning.

Do it right, or wait until you can.

It's still redneck engineering even if you pay someone else to do it. Bubble wrap has it's place. This ain't it.


Yah! Just what I would have said...

BTW, check with a HVAC/plumbing supply house, Uponor is making underground insulated PEX sets now.

Mark: I "redneck engineered" my lines, no melt, no fuss, I'm hurt and bitter by your lack of understanding.

 

[happycamper]

ot door wood stove

first get a real hot roring fire fill up the fire boxs with
kndling small thin wood
let it burn for 10 minutes
than completly fill up the stove with big pcs of oak and locus
leave the damper fully open
for a good long hot burn
I have an old house around 2200 sf.. and a large shop a 28x 40 attached to a 38x40.

the wood stove will be located beside the shop 110' from my house.

Its an older Hardy stove that i "inherited" (it has some problems but im able to fix them)
I live in central pennsylvania and have access to hundreds of acres of hardwoods, lots of locust, oak, cherry, walnut you name it..

I'd like to run this stove for a while till I upgrade..

I've been researching piping thermo pex etc..

I have a line from my shop already, an empty 4" pvc line that is glued below frost line..

A) should I buy thermopex piping and be done with it, pay for the excavation and things associated with it??

B) make my own pex piping and insulate it with bubble wrap and pull it thru the existing conduit??

C) buy the pex piping with the bubble wrap and pay to have it excavated in??

The shop will be heated but probably just to take the chill off of it and possibly just part of it..

I know thermopex is great stuff but the heat loss in 110' would equate to how much wood??

and who sells thermopex in central pennsylvania, anyone know??

Im sort of on a budget till i get back to work..

I appreciate all your thoughts
thanks in advance..[/QUOTE]

 

[forcedintoit]

Is thermopex the same as LOGSTOR? Because logstor is what I used when installing my OWB 4 years ago! And no problems so far! (knock on firewood)!

 

[cbrslider]

Stay away from Bubble Crap.

First install was with the 80' of three wrap bubble wrapped pex in the drain tile(flimsy black pipe). It was filled with ground water within a year and was buried about 2-3' down. I could plant flowers in February where the snow melted off. I burned over three triaxle loads of mixed hardwood logs to heat a 2500sq ft new home.

I contacted the installer and he contacted the manufacturer. They sent me 100' of free four wrap bubble wrap in black drain tile. I pulled it out of the drain tile and put in my own schedule 40 6' pipe buried approx. 4' underground.

I'm not completely happy with the setup. I'm still losing too much heat. The nice thing is I cut my wood consumption in half, but believe it could be even better.

I wish I would have done it correctly the first time or the second time and used thermopex. I was trying to save money and learned the hard way.:bang: Probably going to dig it up again and put in the good stuff.

Just my two cents on the issue.

Ray

 

[cstroke]

well 1500 clams later i have my pipe and got it put in yesterday..

11 bucks a foot is what i paid.

Bought it from a local central boilers dealer, really helpful guy..

boy are the new stoves nice but out of my price range for a year or so..

and found out the wall on my house isnt 12" thick stone, its 23" thick, a great thing to know LOL..

thanks for all your help guys i appreciate it..

I chose the route of crying once..

 

[cbrslider]

Great move. Good luck to you. I'll probably start crying for the third time next summer. Guess I'm a ssssslllllooowwww learner.

Ray