need help in cny

[jeeptj19992001]

anybody in cny, might be able to help me out?
live just outside cuse, bought a house w/ owb, as-hole did not leave me anything on the furnace system. ran the owb last winter when we moved in feb, but the furnace would still kick on. and would melt us out of the house, the extra heat gets pumped to the basement slab, basement was 90+ most of the time, too hot. i need a way to keep the furnace from kicking on. i turned back the thermostat switch on the furnace to a lower setting so it would not cycle as much and helped a bit, but i rather not use the furnace at all. if i turn off the furnace power, the circ pumps will not work. i think i need to add a switch so the circ pumps will be powered on , but the furnace is not....any pros in the area, want to stop by?

 

[blackdogon57]

Please post more detail

I think you will get better advice if you post more info. What type of furnace system are you running/what type of exchangers are you using. If your OWB was installed correcty you should not need to run the back-up system(furnace) at all.

 

[jeeptj19992001]

I think you will get better advice if you post more info. What type of furnace system are you running/what type of exchangers are you using. If your OWB was installed correcty you should not need to run the back-up system(furnace) at all.

the OWB is a heatmor, and he ran the system into a propane boiler system, with a heat exchanger just inside the house, as for not needing the boiler, i agree that it should never be running, that is why i am asking for help.
the woodmor rep saw the system last year and gave the lowdown on how to run the OWB, but think there something askew with the control on the furnace.

 

[CharlieG]

Might just be a defective control

 

[jeeptj19992001]

the heat exchanger is a water to water, plate type, seem to can not find any like it on the web.

 

[mga]

the heat exchanger is a water to water, plate type, seem to can not find any like it on the web.

so...you want to be able to circulate the hot water thru the existing house system without turning on the LP boiler...right?

first, is it (the lp boiler system) zoned at all or just one large loop?

second, the pumps are usually tied electronically into the flame's "call for heat". in other words, when the flames turn on, the pumps will start. trying to by-pass that is going to be tricky because you can't, or don't want to, change that.

you might have to install a stand alone pump for the OWB to feed the house. i don't think you can use the existing pump....i'm not positive on that. maybe someone will chime in and correct me.

either way, it's going to require some "engineering" and that would be hard to do on-line.

 

[ms310]

Try this

I went to this web site when i was installing my heatmor, they gave me the best illistrations, and know how that i could find with out hiring some one to install it for me. http://www.centralboiler.com/otherExamples.html

 

[Mike Van]

I think mga is on the right track - In most circ. controls there's a wire you can remove to keep the furnace from kicking on everytime a zone calls for heat.

 

[mga]

I think mga is on the right track - In most circ. controls there's a wire you can remove to keep the furnace from kicking on everytime a zone calls for heat.

true, but what if the boiler fails and he needs heat from the lp boiler?

i imagine he could wire up an on/off switch to that, but that means he'd have to physically be there. i was hoping something a bit more automatic would be nice....lol

still don't know if it's zoned or not......

 

[jeeptj19992001]

so...you want to be able to circulate the hot water thru the existing house system without turning on the LP boiler...right?

first, is it (the lp boiler system) zoned at all or just one large loop?

second, the pumps are usually tied electronically into the flame's "call for heat". in other words, when the flames turn on, the pumps will start. trying to by-pass that is going to be tricky because you can't, or don't want to, change that.

you might have to install a stand alone pump for the OWB to feed the house. i don't think you can use the existing pump....i'm not positive on that. maybe someone will chime in and correct me.

either way, it's going to require some "engineering" and that would be hard to do on-line.

the system is multi zoned, there is a stand alone pump that circs the OWB, that seems to run constant. that loop is good. there is a thermo switch that is on the furnace, that you set so that when the furnace water hits a certain temp, it kicks on. each zone runs with out kicking on the furnace. with my simple understaning of the system the water that is comming from the owb should keep the boiler water hot enought that the thermo switch would not kick on, I turned the thermo switch to the lowest setting, think its is set at 120 degress, but the furnace still kicks on. would just like to defete that thermo switch so the furnace will not kick on.

 

[urhstry]

If you have that set at 120 and the water temp is over that, you have a controller failure. There is no way that should fire the bolier with that much of a temperature difference. Or something is wired incorrectly.:monkey:

 

[Mike Van]

mga - It doesn'i shut the furnace off or down - I hooked mine up 10 years ago, I just went down to look, but can't remember what I had to do - Old Age I guess? Anyway, I have the same type setup, but inside boiler plumbed to oil boiler, 3 seperate zones. When any zone would kick on, the furnace would fire, even if the water was 170 - I talked to a plumber - boiler guy - Inside the 3 zone controllers, there's a wire that has to be shifted, then that 'automatic fire' is disabled, the furnace won't fire until it see's water temp below what the main boiler temp is set at. In my case, 140 - Help any?

 

[mga]

the system is multi zoned, there is a stand alone pump that circs the OWB, that seems to run constant. that loop is good. there is a thermo switch that is on the furnace, that you set so that when the furnace water hits a certain temp, it kicks on. each zone runs with out kicking on the furnace. with my simple understaning of the system the water that is comming from the owb should keep the boiler water hot enought that the thermo switch would not kick on, I turned the thermo switch to the lowest setting, think its is set at 120 degress, but the furnace still kicks on. would just like to defete that thermo switch so the furnace will not kick on.

more information....much better now.

set it to the highest limit. the LOW limit tells the boiler to turn on at 120 degrees and OFF at the highest setting.

mga - It doesn'i shut the furnace off or down - I hooked mine up 10 years ago, I just went down to look, but can't remember what I had to do - Old Age I guess? Anyway, I have the same type setup, but inside boiler plumbed to oil boiler, 3 seperate zones. When any zone would kick on, the furnace would fire, even if the water was 170 - I talked to a plumber - boiler guy - Inside the 3 zone controllers, there's a wire that has to be shifted, then that 'automatic fire' is disabled, the furnace won't fire until it see's water temp below what the main boiler temp is set at. In my case, 140 - Help any?

yep. he added more info.

my boiler is zoned into two sections for my house. however, the pump doesn't run constantly....only when one of the thermostats calls for heat. ( i have only a natural gas boiler...no OWB)

if his OWB is keeping the water at a certain temperature, say, 180...and his zones call for heat, his furnace should not be turning on ( firing the gas) unless the HIGH/LOW limit switch isn't working. right?

but.....if his LP boiler is still turning on, even with the hot water from the OWB, it seems to me that he'd be blowing the pressure relief valve now and then.

 

[Mike Van]

if his OWB is keeping the water at a certain temperature, say, 180...and his zones call for heat, his furnace should not be turning on ( firing the gas) unless the HIGH/LOW limit switch isn't working. right?

but.....if his LP boiler is still turning on, even with the hot water from the OWB, it seems to me that he'd be blowing the pressure relief valve now and then.

Nope, it's something in the way the controller is wired. The boiler guy told me that as a 'stand alone' unit, when a zone calls for heat, the boiler knows it's going to have to run, so it does - Plumbing in an aux. heat source [like I did] doesn't change what the boiler knows it's supposed to do - It wouldn't run for long, maybe a minute? But everytime a zone called for heat, it fired. Mine are Honeywell controls, and the fix was just changing a wire, but darned if I can remember which!

 

[jeeptj19992001]

thanks for the help guys, will check the limit switch this weekend, and the zone control box. this has been very helpful.
i know what to do now...take shot gun and shoot furnace...that should fix the problem.

 

[mga]

Nope, it's something in the way the controller is wired. The boiler guy told me that as a 'stand alone' unit, when a zone calls for heat, the boiler knows it's going to have to run, so it does - Plumbing in an aux. heat source [like I did] doesn't change what the boiler knows it's supposed to do - It wouldn't run for long, maybe a minute? But everytime a zone called for heat, it fired. Mine are Honeywell controls, and the fix was just changing a wire, but darned if I can remember which!

wait a sec.....if the HIGH limit is, for example, 200 degrees, the flame shuts off when the water reaches that temperature, but the circulator pump will continue to run and move hot water until the thermostat is satisfied.

if his OWB is heating the water to, say 180 degrees, and he lowers the HIGH limit to 180 on his LP boiler, then his LP boiler flame should never turn on as long as the water is at 180 degrees.

however, he'll be changing the HIGH limit of his LP boiler, which may make it less efficient. i don't know what his manufacturer recommends, i just gave examples.

so........if he LOWERS the HIGH limit on his LP boiler, and just allows the OWB to heat the water, he should be OK...providing he depends almost 100% on the OWB for heat.

my next question is what temperature is the water heated from the OWB at the heat exchanger?

 

[mga]

thanks for the help guys, will check the limit switch this weekend, and the zone control box. this has been very helpful.
i know what to do now...take shot gun and shoot furnace...that should fix the problem.

LOL...we confusing the issue more?

 

[Scootermsp]

Boiler Electrician

Save yourselves some hair falling out and talk to or hire a boiler electrician to look at your problem. Chances are they will solve it in about 30 seconds and in doing so you will learn more about how your particular system functions.

 

[jeeptj19992001]

wait a sec.....if the HIGH limit is, for example, 200 degrees, the flame shuts off when the water reaches that temperature, but the circulator pump will continue to run and move hot water until the thermostat is satisfied.

if his OWB is heating the water to, say 180 degrees, and he lowers the HIGH limit to 180 on his LP boiler, then his LP boiler flame should never turn on as long as the water is at 180 degrees.

however, he'll be changing the HIGH limit of his LP boiler, which may make it less efficient. i don't know what his manufacturer recommends, i just gave examples.

so........if he LOWERS the HIGH limit on his LP boiler, and just allows the OWB to heat the water, he should be OK...providing he depends almost 100% on the OWB for heat.

my next question is what temperature is the water heated from the OWB at the heat exchanger?

hot enough that i can not touch the pipe for more then 5 seconds

 

[jeeptj19992001]

Save yourselves some hair falling out and talk to or hire a boiler electrician to look at your problem. Chances are they will solve it in about 30 seconds and in doing so you will learn more about how your particular system functions.

tryed that one gay wanted 200 to just look the system over, told him to pound sand, other guy came, looked at system told me that is how they run
and sent me a bill for 50.00
they have been no help at all