Need Landscape expertise

[whitenack]

Check out the photo below. I want to plant a tree right in that middle yard. What tree should I use?

I had thought about a tulip poplar, but my mother (the artist) said that such a tall tree would look odd compared to the short, wide, duplex. So, I bring the question to the experts. What would look right there?

The tree would need to work well in clay soil, near the road, will get plenty of sun, shade tree. No evergreens please. Location is central Kentucky. Neighbor across the street just put in two Japanese maples. My understanding is that they are short trees. I would like something taller and less ornamental.

Thanks for your help.

 

[treeman45246]

My vote goes to a thornless honeylocust. The size won't overpower the house, they grow fast, and they provide a nice, dappled shade. The branch attachment is stronger than other fast-growing species, and the canopy is open and spreading. They will do well in the clays we have in the midwest, and are tolerant of urban abuses.
As with any tree, they do have their drawbacks. Surface roots can become a problem as the tree matures, so I would recommend a wide mulch ring around the base. They have occasional problems with insects, especially the 'sunburst' variety around here. I recommend both 'Skycole' and 'Skyline' as they have done well in Cincinnati.
I'm sure others will have their own suggestions and comments, so keep checking back.

 

[whitenack]

Treeman,

How wide can those surface roots get? I have to be careful because I have those walkways on both sides.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Tuliptree great choice imo; encourage the artist to look at the scale in relation to the tall trees in back, and not just the short duplex.

Exposure? Where is north?

 

[fmueller]

How bout a Redbud(Cercis Canadensis)? 20-30 ft tall, 15-20 wide at maturity, pink flowers in spring, low maintenance.

 

[treeman45246]

Surface roots can be out into the yard a bit, and could, with time, disrupt the sidewalk blocks. By planting at the correct depth and watering deeply, not frequently, most roots will stay well enough below the surface to not be a problem. Water too frequently in clay soils and the roots will stay nearer the surface, where there is plentiful oxygen. I would value the shade and increase in property value over the potential cost of replacing a few sidewalk blocks.
Tulip poplars will also surface root in certain situations, and frass from aphids can be a problem. They are a large tree that does well in this part of the country, and a fast-grower. Redbuds are well-behaved and also do well here, but I would consider it to be a small tree. Everyone will have an opinion, it's all going to depend on what you want in the long run. You might want to tell us more about what you want from the tree - fall color, overall size, flowers, fruiting, overall shape.... all are considerations for you to make. Just about any selection has its good and bad points... hopefully guy and fmueller will continue to help - they certainly contribute more to the site than I do. I mostly lurk and learn...

 

[whitenack]

I'm a lurker and a learner too.

What I want from the tree:

#1 Would have to be improve property value. I own this rental property and I would like to increase the aesthetics and comfort of this duplex. Having a nice shade tree in the yard would make it feel more homey, increasing the demand from renters and making the property more valuable when/if I decide to sell it.

2.) Shade. My wife and I are currently living in one side of the duplex, so we are actually interested in the tree shading the property. The picture above is facing north, and the sun really beats down on this south wall.

A) I don't know how long we will actually live at this duplex. More than likely, we will have moved out long before the tree we pick will actually provide shade, but I still want it for the long term investment. Plus, I love trees.

B) I am a huge fan of Bur Oaks. However, I have ruled that out due to the acorns being a nuisance on the unsheltered cars and walkways. I do, however, plan to plant a Bur back in the back to replace the half-dying water maple (barely noticable in the picture in back left corner).

C) Tell me about the 'frass from aphids'.

D) I had the Honeylocust on my list as possibilities, but I found out they had those big seed pods and I am worried about them getting on my nerves.


Thanks

 

[treeman45246]

The pods won't be a problem - the honeylocust varieties I recommended are seedless and thornless.
The frass from Tulip trees - what I can tell you is based on complaints I've received only, as I have not lived or parked beneath one. Apparently, aphid populations slowly build on Tulip Trees as the summer progresses. Being an insect which feeds by sucking on plant parts, and with a simple digestive system, they exude a fair amount of frass as they feed. The frass is sticky, and in cases where the insect population has built up, you can find sooty mold growing on the lower leaves and the frass that has accumulated there. This seems to get some homeowners fired up as they need to wash their cars on a regular basis during the summer months.
Both of these trees do one thing well - they grow fast. Fast growth in trees often equates to poorly structured or weak wood. I don't feel either tree has poor structure - tulip tree has a largely classic shape to the crown, while honeylocust is wide and spreading. I feel that the wood of the Tulip tree is weaker, as I have a fair amount of breakage in these trees after storms. Tulip tree will be a much taller specimen in the long run... Capable of heights around 80 feet here. Honeylocust grow quickly to around 35 feet, attaining this in 10-12 years typically here, then they slow down and rarely get much more than 50 feet tall.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

How about a honeylocust in the middle and redbuds in the smaller areas? One tree's not enough to shade that big duplex.

Or an amelanchier and a Prunus mume (winter-flowering apricot) in place of the redbuds. You can get 4-season interest if you plan it right.

Power to you, thinking about the property after you sell. Wish all my clients could/would. Property balues will grow as your landscape grows.

 

[Toddppm]

If you're going to plant the tree in the midlle I wouldn't worry about the cars being hit by acorns ( not for a while ). I think an Oak would be a great tree, lots to choose from or even a Hickory. Try to pick a native forest tree. A redbud would be too small I think and they're an understory tree anyhow.
A Linden or Basswood would grow a little faster. If want someting different Zelkovas are really nice.

 

[Nickrosis]

Definitely plant a lot of trees...perhaps a dozen. I'm thinking a grove of Kentucky coffeetrees to fit the state.

 

[che]

Take a short drive to Danville and drive through Centre College, Walnut Street, and Lexington Rd. There are some beautiful trees and older properties along these streets. If you go soon, you'll get an idea of what they'll look like in the fall.

In a property that small, I think your dogwood and redbud would do well. There's got to be a reason so many are grown around here. Kentucky Coffeetree is a nice tree, but the ones I've seen are a bit too....uh...'upright'.

I have a nice burr oak that is doing great (in spite of my brother-in-law and thanks to the help I received here.)

But....my favorite tree is my Gingko. It has such a wonderful form, interesting history and leaves, right now it's a beautiful yellow. Soon, all the leaves will fall at once....easy cleanup. Again, a drive through Danville (main street downtown is lined with a very upright columnar (sp?) variety) will show you many Gingkos.

JMHO....an 'expert' by no means.

 

[whitenack]

I know the area you speak of well. However, I am a Transylvania alum, so I don't want to give Centre too much credit...

I was hoping for something bigger than a redbud or dogwood. They are nice for color, but I was looking for something more...useful.

Hey Che, are you the poster whose brother-in-law backed into your Bur Oak with his truck? I remember you.

We have a row of Ginkos on poplar street here in Harrodsburg that I park under everyday. Yes, they are beautiful trees, but the females are way too stinky to have around. If there were some way to distinguish the males early on, they would be worth planting.

 

[whitenack]

I saw on a website that the tuliptree prefers to be transplanted in spring instead of fall. Is that right? If that's the case, I guess that shoots down that option.

The website...
http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/forestry/Education/ohiotrees/tuliptree.htm

 

[treeman45246]

That is just a preference. I have had good luck with fall planting tulip trees. Are you leaning towards the tulip? I can throw some more species out for you, if you haven't decided yet. Lacebark elm is nice, as would be the Zelkova (I think someone already mentioned that one.) Both are a little slower to grow, but have great overall form and few problems.

 

[whitenack]

I haven't decided yet. I like the tulip trees because they are such good growers. My parents planted some tuliptrees about 5 yrs ago and they are huge! They planted their's in the fall too and didn't have any trouble. You have be scared about the aphid thing though. Sticky poo would not be good because there is no shelter for the autos. Is it a given on all trees, or is it just an occaisonal occurance?

My decision is also limited to the selection of the local nursery here in town. When I was buying trees for my old house the nursery didn't have tuliptrees due to deer deystroying the crops. I had to settle for a maple and an oak.

I guess I will get back to you guys when I know what my selection is.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by whitenack
You have be scared about the aphid thing though. Sticky poo would not be good because there is no shelter for the autos. Is it a given on all trees, or is it just an occaisonal occurance?

Only occasional, and pretty easy to manage if it does become a problem. Planted in the middle area, it'd be several decades if ever before aphids were a nuisance.

Our deer don't seem to eat tuliptrees. I can get all I want with a shovel. They're pretty easy to transplant. I love Liriodendron!

 

[whitenack]

Alright, here are my choices:

Red Maple (October Glory)
Purple Ash
Tulip Poplar
Red Oak
Willow Oak

The nursery sells the Tuliptrees cheaper than the rest because they grow faster. In fact, I can get a 1-1/2" diameter tuliptree installed by them and guaranteed for a year for the same price as a 2" maple or ash that I plant myself and no guarantee.

 

[Elmore]

tree of your dreams

Liriodendron tulipifera is ok on a large estate. The tops are often blown out of them and they require a more loamy soil than you can afford. Okay, it really sucks for this location. It would become a liability. Chinese Lacebark Elm and Zelkova serrata would both be good. Lacebark grows faster. Whatever species you get, you should make sure that you get a cultivar that is likely to grow to the specifications, size that you ultimately want. I, too, like Ginkgoes. As a matter of fact I spoke to a man in KY yesterday in regard to about ten male grafted trees, eight 'Magyar' and two 'Autumn Gold'. He has 'Princeton Sentry' and male grafted. 'Magyar' or 'Princeton Sentry' both are narrow in habit and would be good in that location. Acer buergeranum - Trident Maple and Acer truncatum - Shantung Maple would both be good. Neither are very fast growing but in general a fast growing tree is usually short lived and often becomes a liability. If you can find a grafted Ginkgo you won't be able to do any better. They are tough and long lived.
Here is a tightly foliaged and compact male tree that I am propagating. It would be perfect for your site but none are yet available. Compare it to the large Palm tree to it's right. heh heh
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/Elmore/Ginkgo/IMAG0011.jpg"width=550>
This one, that I have also been cloning, is ultimately too large but sure is beautiful.
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/Elmore/Ginkgo/PennyLane450w.jpg"width=550>

 

[Elmore]

Acer truncatum - Shantung Maple

Here are some images of Acer truncatum - Shantung Maple a.k.a. Purple-blow Maple. An extremely drought tolerant, trouble free tree. Typical landscape size is about 20' - 30' x 20' - 30'. Zones 4 - 8. Somewhat purple tinged new growth and buttery yellow to orange/red fall color.
Acer truncatum - Shantung Maple
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/Elmore/Acer%20truncatum%20-%20Shantung%20Maple/ShantungMaple10-5-03.jpg"width=550>
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/Elmore/Acer%20truncatum%20-%20Shantung%20Maple/Purple-blowMaple10-5-2003.jpg"width=550>
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/Elmore/Acer%20truncatum%20-%20Shantung%20Maple/Acertruncatum-ShantungMaple10-5-03.jpg"width=550>