Need soil/lawn help.

[CaseyForrest]

Keep the ground moist, not saturated, untill you start to see green. Then once in the AM before the sun comes up and once in the PM after the sun goes down.

 

[gasman]

As Casey said, you don't want the seeds or newly germinated grass to get dry.

 

[CUCV]

For putting in lawns I made up a automated sprinkler system with six zones. I usually run it 3 times a day for 15 min each on each zone each time until I have cut it 2-3 times. If you do have a ton of clay in your soil you can apply gypsum but it doesn't work over night. I usually wait 6 weeks after seeding to apply the second application of fert. Make sure it you top dress with compost that it is good compost. If it has a lot of non-decomposed wood chips/saw dust it will suck nitrogen out of the existing soils. For fastest green up use a contractors mix of seed, it will most likely have a good mix of perennial and annual grass with a high concentration of Rye grass.

 

[BostonBull]

Thanks for all the tips guys! Kepp them coming...lawnsite who?

 

[SilentElk]

My advice to the original post would have been, amend the soil, till and reseed. Seems time is an issue so I wouldnt till for sure. Appears you reseeded. The person who made the comment about the rye is very correct.

I would not have seeded heavy but that is me. Most grasses are applied at 10lbs per 1000 sq/ft. Although it makes a yard look nice and green in a hurry, long term this is a bad idea. Reason being is the grasses compete and patches of your yard are liable to die off. (long term: years) Cant guarantee it will or wont but makes it more likely is all. Like planting too many trees kinda. Sure it makes it green fast but they are all weaker.

CaseyForrest and Gasman are on the money with watering. Keep it damp but not saturated. You want to keep the ground moist. If you are having water run off it is too much or standing puddles. We recommend watering twice a day for first couple weeks if it is hot and dry. Once good at night and a second time during the heat of the day for long enough to get some more water.

Best of luck with the yard. For the record, my dad has owned a hydroseeding company for 7 years and I am his estimater. Here's a picture of a nuclear missle command center we hydroseeded in 2005. Big place. 6 acres hydroseeded.

 

[BostonBull]

Thanks for the tips elk. I used about 1/2 of a 20lb bag on just under 10,000 sq/f. Twice between two months.

I was alwyas told watering during the hottest part of the day would kill the lawn, and watering at night was a bad idea too, becaus the grass wouldnt dry. Is this watering advice ONL to NEW lawns?

Thanks!

 

[CaseyForrest]

Thanks for the tips elk. I used about 1/2 of a 20lb bag on just under 10,000 sq/f. Twice between two months.

I was alwyas told watering during the hottest part of the day would kill the lawn, and watering at night was a bad idea too, becaus the grass wouldnt dry. Is this watering advice ONL to NEW lawns?

Thanks!

Watering in the heat of the day is bad for a couple reasons...First is you lose allot of water to evaporation. Second is you can scorch the lawn.

You are also correct about watering at night. Invites fungal growth.

Just before sunrise and just after sunset are the ideal times. It also depends on the temp. If its not to hot you can water throughout the day. If its getting into the high 80's and 90's, best to not water during the heat of the day.

 

[rb_in_va]

lawnsite who?

BB,
I'm not a turf pro, so I was trying to point you to some help. Next time you need help I guess I'll just shut up, eh?

 

[SilentElk]

Thanks for the tips elk. I used about 1/2 of a 20lb bag on just under 10,000 sq/f. Twice between two months.

I was alwyas told watering during the hottest part of the day would kill the lawn, and watering at night was a bad idea too, becaus the grass wouldnt dry. Is this watering advice ONL to NEW lawns?

Thanks!

Could different climates. It is an arid climate here and can be over 100 degrees during the day. Water evaporates fast. Typically, here in CO we water at night although evenings and mornings are common.

I would not water during the day if the grass was established. If it starts drying out below 1/2" soil depth, then getting some water on germinating seeds is best. If a seed is germinating and completely dries out it will die. Once it starts to grow and kinda fill in, then I would minimize daytime watering unless it seems to dry out signiticantly. 1st year is the most critical to get the grass established.

Additionally, sandy soils dry quickly. Basically, just kept it moist often and dont let the ground get bone dry and you will be fine.

Best of luck!

 

[Woodie]

Do not, for love or money, God or country, use any type of annual rye in a seed mix.

Ixnay on the eyeray.

Studies have shown that annual rye crowds out the good grass, and as a result, when it dies, you have thin turf.

It is always a bad idea, in every situation, to use annual rye in a seed mixture when starting a residential lawn. Only the cheep crap has it anyway. It's there to "give that quick green-up." Of course, so is quick-release nitrogen, but I wouldn't use THAT either.

Lots of the crap folks like Scotts pass off as "lawn advice" I wouldn't do to my worst enemy. Their weed and feed is the dumbest idea in lawncare...potentially dumber than the mulch volcano.

 

[BostonBull]

BB,
I'm not a turf pro, so I was trying to point you to some help. Next time you need help I guess I'll just shut up, eh?

Not at all, that wasnt a dig at you! I was just saying the boys here are pretty educated in other aspects than woody plants.

Again thanks for the lawnsite tip!

 

[BostonBull]

Do not, for love or money, God or country, use any type of annual rye in a seed mix.

Ixnay on the eyeray.

Studies have shown that annual rye crowds out the good grass, and as a result, when it dies, you have thin turf.

It is always a bad idea, in every situation, to use annual rye in a seed mixture when starting a residential lawn. Only the cheep crap has it anyway. It's there to "give that quick green-up." Of course, so is quick-release nitrogen, but I wouldn't use THAT either.

Lots of the crap folks like Scotts pass off as "lawn advice" I wouldn't do to my worst enemy. Their weed and feed is the dumbest idea in lawncare...potentially dumber than the mulch volcano.

Uh-Oh!!! This is the seed I used, http://www.scotts.com/index.cfm/eve...t/documentId/6b247a717b968efa6f508e7a6487bbb3, mixed with this....http://www.scotts.com/index.cfm/eve...t/documentId/f1d64ea00e97318d2553f2cae23e0785

Did I do bad?

Which seed, fert, would you guys suggest?
Is the Scotts annual program THAT bad?

 

[Ed Roland]

BB,
I'm not a turf pro, so I was trying to point you to some help. Next time you need help I guess I'll just shut up, eh?

ok

 

[CaseyForrest]

I use Scotts. Right on par with the rest of the ferts one can get from Lowes and HD. I can also buy the 5000sq/ft bag and do my yard twice!!!

WN brings up a good point about annual ryegrass. It is good for a quick green-up, but will not return the following year unless you have mild winters and the grass doesnt actually go dormant. Once you get your lawn established, and eliminate weeds with a Broadleaf control such as 2 4-d, or something else you can get from Lowes or HD using a weed control is about redundant.

One thing that gets overlooked by allot of homeowners is the use of pre-emergent in the battle against weeds.

EDIT: Just looked at that seed link. That mix has perennial rye, wich will return from year to year.

Thats the difference between perennial and annual. Annuals are only good for one year depending on the winters. An annual in MI may be a perennial in FL.

 

[Woodie]

Is the Scotts annual program THAT bad?

Two tips to remember when killing weeds and fertilizing:

Always use liquid weed killer, and always use pelletized fertilizer.

Here's why the Scotts "program" is so bad: You're using a ton of chemicals you don't need to, and you are putting down quick-release nitrogen which is also a bad idea.

Quick-release nitrogen causes a flush of top-growth, which the roots are then incapable of maintaining. Your grass is not putting enough into the roots, which is what you want grass to be doing. Grass plants with deep, well-established root systems are better able to withstand drought and other stresses (mowing too short, etc.).

As to the weed-killer, the only way the Scotts granules can actually kill anything is if they physically stick to the plant leaves. Of course, very little of it does, and you are just dumping uneeded herbicide onto the ground.

Far better to spot-treat with something like 2,4-D, or better a mixture of that and a handfull of others. (Dicamba, Tryclopyr, etc.) Get yourself a bottle of Bayers Advanced Lawn All-In-One or something similar, and spot treat where and only where you see a weed coming up. Unlike Scott's granular junk, this has whats called a "spreader-sticker" in it...think sticky surfactant and you're halfway home. It helps the active ingredients adhere to the leaf and break through the waxy topcoat.

If a lawn is just tore-up with weeds, you can buy liquid products that go on the end of a garden hose that can help, but that's not something you want to do often. Again, think uneccesary chemical use.

Not to worry about the annual rye...while it may not be optimal, millions do it every year. Next time you overseed, though...make sure there's no annual rye in it.

Good luck, and keep us posted!

 

[Woodie]

One thing that gets overlooked by allot of homeowners is the use of pre-emergent in the battle against weeds.

This is excellent advice.

Not many grassy weeds can actually be killed by selective herbicides. (Crabgrass being a lucky exception!) The only way to keep them out of your lawn is either treat with a pre-emergent, or physically pull/poison them and reseed the bare spot.

Added note: Pre-emergent is always a pelletized herbicide...that contradicts what I said in a previous post about always using liquid herbicides. My bad...

 

[gasman]

I'm not a grass seed expert, but seems like in the future, BB might consider getting seed advice from folks in his immediate location as to what does best. I'm sure whatever you've done this year will be okay for now.

I have no weeds in my front lawn. I use no regular chemical program (I do use a crabgrass preventer). I spot treat once or twice a year. Other than that I just keep the grass healthy and thick with lime and fertilizer , and pay careful attention to the proper amount of water. My back lawn I spot and do allow some weeds to pop up without getting too worried about it.

At my old house (before kids) once I got the weeds under control, I actually hand weeded with my wife 2000 sq feet for a couple years. If you have a small lawn I think that would actually be totally reasonable, but that doesn't describe your lawn.

 

[BostonBull]

Learning more everyday I read this thread!

I am starting to hand weed the back lawn when i water.

I asked the local guys their advice, but they are all biased. Scotts, Lemco, Bayer etc etc........its like going to a ford dealer and asking them what the best truck is.

I am now watering at 5:30 a.m., and then again when I get home between 3:30 & 7:00 p.m.

when should I fert again, and whats the best type of fertilizer? Brand?


Thanks again guys!

 

[Woodie]

Learning more everyday I read this thread!

I am starting to hand weed the back lawn when i water.

I asked the local guys their advice, but they are all biased. Scotts, Lemco, Bayer etc etc........its like going to a ford dealer and asking them what the best truck is.

I am now watering at 5:30 a.m., and then again when I get home between 3:30 & 7:00 p.m.

when should I fert again, and whats the best type of fertilizer? Brand?


Thanks again guys!

Since you've already put down a fertilizer, I wouldn't put anything else on until fall. Sometime after the heat breaks in your area, I'm guessing around a mid-September time frame, put down a COMPLETELY slow-release fert like Milorganite, or something made by Ringers called Lawn Restore. The bottom line is that you want it to be 100% slow-release. If it has urea in it, or any ingredient that starts with 'ammonium,' don't do it.

A soil test is also in your future, because that can point out other deficiencies you may need to fill. You may need some bonemeal for phosphorus, or muriate of potash for potassium, but do not, repeat, don't, put down anything but simple nitrogen (first number) without doing a soil test first. A good soil test from your county extension agency is incredibly cheap and probably the most useful thing you can do for your lawn. The kind of things those tests pick-up is incredible. Can't recommend one highly enough.

Sounds like your watering schedule is right on. Remember, all you need to do is keep moist...just keep the ungerminated seeds wet. Anything else invites fungus/disease, and washes seeds away to boot.

 

[DGG]

Where I live the soil is so full of clay and rocks that you can make a snowball out of it. The park across the highway is called "White Clay Creek State Park" for good reason. Here is what I do. I'm not claiming it is the best method but it works for me with a little effort.

1. I check the PH with a $5 tester each year to see how much pelletized limerock to add in the spring (or fall if I can get it). I usually add about 300# per acre.

2. I use a balanced fall fertilizer and a spring "pre-emergent" fertilizer. If those pesky weeds can't germinate, they can't grow. I use Scotts because I like the way it spreads (micro pelletized) from my broadcast spreader. I can do the whole yard (about 1.5 acres) in a half hour. In the spring I also put down "Grub-X" because I get grubs if I don't, probably from living in the woods.

3. During the spring and summer I'll dig out any of those little yellow flowering weeds, that turn into puff balls, with a small tool that looks like a sawed-off barbeque fork. You have to get out that huge root they have or they pop right back. Spraying them works also but I don't want to zap the surrounding grass. Just get that dandalion. I make this part of my lawn cutting routine.

4. I don't scalp my lawn when I cut, like so many of my neighbors seem to do. I leave it a minimum of 2.5-3" high after cutting. I also don't bag my grass clippings. My lawn tractor mulches it up pretty fine. I think my not scalping and also mulching really helps, keeping the roots cool and helping to choke out the weeds. It also helps if you don't have a sprinkler system (I don't) or don't want to pay big water bills.

5. About every other year my neighbor and I rent an aereator for the day. It pulls plugs of soil out of the sod. We do this in the fall. We tried to get some of the neighbors to go in on the rental but they couldn't be bothered. It isn't hard and as clayie as our soil is it helps break it up and breath.

6. If I need to spread some seed I get it from the local garden shop. It is a blend made for my type of soil.

When I moved into the place the yard was a mess. It took about three years of maintenance to get it looking really nice.