Needing advice about starting a firewood supply business PLEASE!

[challenger]

I am currently "retired" meaning I work more & harder than most people that are retired. I have to stay busy and I am one that enjoys physical labor.
I'm 56 and in good health at 6'2" & 190 lbs. I like puppies, walks on the beach and watching sunsets from my kitchen window with my 36 cats gathered nearby. Well the first sentence applies but not the second.
My wife and I recently found out she has breast cancer and I am looking for a way to keep physically and mentally busy.
Prior to finding out about the illness I was tossing the firewood idea around but it never got any farther than bouncing around in my head colliding with the twenty other thoughts that fill a void of this size. I would like to ask some people here about this business to see if it is a potentially profitable endeavor or maybe I should ask how can selling firewood be made into a profitable business. In other words-what are the tricks & tips one needs to be educated on?
Here are some newb questions if I may:
Where do most suppliers get their logs if they don't have their own growth to harvest?
I have a HD truck and trailer which I would use for delivering. The sell & deliver method seems most popular in this forum so is this best as opposed to having stacks for people to come get?
I see a lot of "truck load" quantities being advertised locally and zero cord prices. I'd be interested in selling "cord wood" because it takes the possible objection of quantity/price out of the picture. Are cord wood sales ONLY a bad practice?
I currently dont have a splitter but I've got a pump, cylinder for making one that came with an electric motor I bought for another purpose. Does making a splitter make any economical sense? I know I won't be looking for any chinese equipment IF I do buy a splitter and this has had an impact on equipment that I've made after finding out there were no USA suppliers of such.
Is there a place in a firewood business for electric splitters or are IC engines the best choice?
Everyone that sells firewood locally are side liners and show up when they want and are casual and unprofessional. I'm saying this about my area ONLY so don't flame me about stating facts as I know them for my local area. I'm not condemning fire wood suppliers in general. Prior to retiring I owned a local service related business which is still thriving. I built this business over 20+ years and we were always on time and did what we said we would do. When we screwed up took responsibility and made things right immediately. These few things along with honesty and proper value made the business well sought after. The only way I could see myself selling firewood is using these same principles. Do buyers give a rats a$$ about weather or not a firewood business is "professionally run"? Again I am not casting aspersions on any other firewood sales area. I'm also not claiming to be better in ANY way than anyone else that sells wood. I'm just trying to clarify my position as it may impact if I am a candidate for this business.
Any constructive information about forming this business is greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Howard SE NC

Beekeeping for chordoma

 

[lone wolf]

Simple build or buy a good strong splitter, get a dump truck, build a website to sell your product, then cut wood year round so you have seasoned wood for your customers. You will need a help too! American one.

 

[Sagetown]

Yesterday's Newspaper Front Page. Tree Service selling seasoned delivered and stacked $65 per cord.

 

[farmer steve]

Yesterday's Newspaper Front Page. Tree Service selling seasoned delivered and stacked $65 per cord.

 

[djones]

In this area, people who deliver what they offer on time are called upon again and again. Offering the wood at a discount if the customer picks up themselves will keep them coming back as well. Many suppliers have logs delivered to their work area then cut, split and stack at that area till deliveries have to be made. I've watched several neighbors run their business that way for years. One of them just cuts and splits during the spring till fall and then vacations in south America on the profits during the winter. One nearby neighbor used an electric splitter and had no problems with it, sure was quiet.

 

[farmer steve]

if you follow the business practices you described you are 3/4 of the way there.cord sales or fractions thereof are the way to go. gives the customer an idea on what they are getting even if they don't have a clue.access to good quality wood is a must.cut all wood to a standard size.(i cut mine to 16")as far as delivery or customer pickup its a toss up. i like pick ups as i can schedule them to suit me.deliveries have to suit the customer. don't price according to what the "other" guys are charging.like my dad tells customers when they ask the price,"the wood is free your paying for my labor and equiptment." depending on your setup you may handle 1 cord of wood 4-5 times and no,buyers don't care if the snow is a$$hole deep to a giraffe they just want their wood delivered yesterday. good luck.FS

 

[zogger]

The oak around here takes two years to get down to low teens moisture content. It will burn at one summer drying time, but it is not optimal.

Something to consider for looking at when the income will come in. If you have *good* wood, this will set you apart from the other guys. Stacked with good air and sun and off the ground well works the best.

I think there are any number of people around here who have never burnt actual dried oak.

 

[Big_Al]

Biggest things I've found are good quality dry wood , give a little extra and show up on time. Probably half the customers I talked with last year said they'd been stood up, shorted or got green or punky wood.

 

[Guido Salvage]

Anyone with a saw and a truck or trailer can be in the firewood business. Many are looking for a few $ and don't care about delivering a good product or service. If you like physical labor, hard work and minimal reward then it is a profession for you.

 

[Hinerman]

Anyone with a saw and a truck or trailer can be in the firewood business. Many are looking for a few $ and don't care about delivering a good product or service. If you like physical labor, hard work and minimal reward then it is a profession for you.

QFT

 

[HD2010]

I like Guido's last statement. It's the truth. You will not get rich doing this. Not saying you want to, just saying.
Start out with a great product, be dependable and be honest. Don't get greedy. Your price will be dependant on what people will pay. If customers only knew what we went through to get them a load of wood. I think a truckload of wood should be $200.00 but I wouldn't sell any at that price. I work with a partner selling wood. He get's greedy. He starts out the season high and wonders why it's not selling, we then lower price. By then it's too late and sales suck and we are delivering in Jan. and Feb. This year he asked me what to start at. I suggested $75.00 a truck load and $25.00 for delivery. We sold out Thanksgiving week. He now keeps asking why we did so good. I told him once or twice it was the stable price. I now say nothing. I think the price is too low but it is now obvious it's not. Well maybe a little.

As far as selling by the truckload that is what we do. Most people don't know what a cord is nor do they care. There are little to know other ads for cord wood. I think it would just confuse people around here. I know this is not legal in some states but it works here. I sold one customer a cord of wood out of 35 cord.

I hope this helps you out.

 

[branchbuzzer]

Where do most suppliers get their logs if they don't have their own growth to harvest?

Ask loggers or inquire at mills about delivered logs. You can also scrounge off of Craigslist, look for dead and down on people's property and offer to remove, etc. Your local market will determine what is feasible, in some markets buying wood would stretch margins very thin in others it makes good sense.

I have a HD truck and trailer which I would use for delivering. The sell & deliver method seems most popular in this forum so is this best as opposed to having stacks for people to come get?

You can do both, and some customers want to pick up. Some want the discount, some want to see firsthand what they are getting.

I see a lot of "truck load" quantities being advertised locally and zero cord prices. I'd be interested in selling "cord wood" because it takes the possible objection of quantity/price out of the picture. Are cord wood sales ONLY a bad practice?

A cord is the legally recognized way to sell, but you will do better by learning to sell both ways and in the customary way of your local area. You can still convert that "load" into a cord during the sale to make it hunky-dory legally. If you are the only seller advertising cords you will get some sales the others won't ( there are always people that move in from other areas ), but you need to be able to do it both ways. All customers want to know exactly what they're getting, so having a picture of what you're selling and good communication is very important.

I currently dont have a splitter but I've got a pump, cylinder for making one that came with an electric motor I bought for another purpose. Does making a splitter make any economical sense?

That depends on your personal situation and how much you are trying to sell, etc. Sometimes it makes sense, sometimes not. It's usually cheaper doing it by hand, but only if you can physically do it, have the time, etc. There are profitable sellers here that even hire people to hand split, so a splitter isn't essential. It can be done many ways and still work.

Everyone that sells firewood locally are side liners and show up when they want and are casual and unprofessional. I'm saying this about my area ONLY so don't flame me about stating facts as I know them for my local area. I'm not condemning fire wood suppliers in general. Prior to retiring I owned a local service related business which is still thriving. I built this business over 20+ years and we were always on time and did what we said we would do. When we screwed up took responsibility and made things right immediately. These few things along with honesty and proper value made the business well sought after. The only way I could see myself selling firewood is using these same principles. Do buyers give a rats a$$ about weather or not a firewood business is "professionally run"?

Certainly they do care, especially the ones willing to pay the most, and if you keep those principles you are already a big cut above most of the sellers out there. Your assessment of the average "schmuck in a truck out to make a quick buck" is mostly accurate, but you will need patience to grow a set of clients that appreciates the higher standard that you are setting. You are competing with all kinds of sellers: unemployed guys trying to make ends meet for a short time, tree services with extra wood to get rid of, hobby sellers that also burn wood themselves, alcoholics and pillheads looking to get their next fix, just to name a few. For that reason, you need to set yourself apart and find creative ways to market your wares. Those sellers that are desperate keep a lid on prices and smart buyers know how to take advantage of that. If you know you're selling good stuff, don't try to match the desperation sellers - especially at the start of the season.

 

[Naked Arborist]

Bodies that continuously show up for work. One of my biggest hurtles ever.

 

[challenger]

Great advice from everyone. It is much appreciated.
I am going to contact a friend that owns a lot of land in my area. He also develops and farms and has a lot of downed trees. I am going to see if he is interested in leasing me some dirt for this operation. I only have a 2 acre lot and there are too many HOA restrictions and neighbors that....well....suck.
I still don't understand the illegality of selling truck loads of wood but I'll do more research on this when I get to a real computer.
Given the fact I'm fairly well known locally and people know I sold a successful business I don't think I'd have a problem selling wood at a premium price. It would be premium wood or at least better wood than others are selling at the cheaper prices. I know myself that being on time and taking care of customers is something most people greatly appreciate not getting hung out for 1-2 hours or days. If someone tells me a time I expect they are here at that time. I'll take 10-15 minute delay or a call/explanation. Otherwise I'm not using this person again. I cant count the number of times people were genuinely surprised that I came to appointments on time and I built a niche for servicing high end homeowners & builders by providing what I promised when I promised. People say, "oh what's the big deal I'm an hour late or I didn't show up on a certain day". That show they operate and it's fine for them. I can't go with that laid back mentality. Not saying it's bad-just bad for me.
Thanks!

Beekeeping for chordoma

 

[Naked Arborist]

If you provide a good service and product, the **** sells itself!

 

[farmer steve]

Great advice from everyone. It is much appreciated.

I still don't understand the illegality of selling truck loads of wood but I'll do more research on this when I get to a real computer.


Beekeeping for chordoma

the laws on selling firewood vary from state to state.here in PA it must be a cord or fraction of a cord or cubic feet. i just like it better. everyone knows what their getting. our firewood laws are governed by the dept. of ag.

 

[svk]

Lots of good advice from the other posts.

Unless you can find a reliable source of wood that isn't too far away I would find a good logger who can deliver you truckloads at a fair price. This will reduce your profit per cord but you will save time (which allows you to split more wood) and wear and tear of your vehicle and tools by scrounging. Scrounging will work but it means you are often dealing with someone elses problem: giant yard trees, rotten wood, low BTU species, unknown metal in yard trees to wreck your stuff, etc.

Craigslist, word of mouth, and flyers will get you lots of business. You are already a seasoned businessman so you know how to take care of a customer once you find them.

I know people who buy wood up here and there are very few reliable suppliers. And we are in the heart of a timber industry area. No-shows and unseasoned wood are common expectations. Someone running a clean firewood business could sell as much as they could make.

Also my very best wishes for a speedy recovery for your wife.

 

[TeeMan]

As stated above, there are a number of previous threads that you could skim through under the search box for 'firewood business' and pick up most of the suggestions. I would advertise on craigslist (with photos), key up with a supplier for log form hardwood, make a few key contacts for larger consumers such as BBQ places and restaurants, and utilize any and every bit of wood that you can. I believe luckydozen can chime in since he sells in various amounts, sells the uglies as campfire, and even the sawdust! Give the customer options for pickup or delivery (maybe even wrap half cord loads on pallets for easy loading with forks).

Good luck with it and cheers to a recover for your wife.

 

[nk14zp]

With your work ethics I think you are off to a good start already.

 

[challenger]

the laws on selling firewood vary from state to state.here in PA it must be a cord or fraction of a cord or cubic feet. i just like it better. everyone knows what their getting. our firewood laws are governed by the dept. of ag.

Oh OK. Now I understand the premise. To me it sounds like another governMENTAL desperate stab at protecting people from themselves which always translates into more G jobs for people to punch in when they start their G job and punch out one more time after 20 years of pushing around documents titled, "make life a PIA for-insert name". These "workers" come up with a law that protect buyers of firewood because they are the type of people that are too stupid to look at what they are buying and being responsible for their personal purchases. Really? Firewood buyers have a layer of government that protects them from making a poor buying decision? The PA AG department has GOT TO have a million things that anyone with common sense (maybe 5% of the USA population IMO) can categorise as being much more important than being "wood police". I bet there is a license required to sell firewood in PA yes?
Sorry for this rant-it isn't directed at you by any means. I'll never be bowled over by any "department" our multi layered government systems come up with. One local example here in NC. I fairly recently purchased a kayak and was informed that I need a PFD while I am out in it. This makes my a$$ ache until my teeth rattle. I am fishing in a creek that I can stand up in nearly any part of at high tide. I swam competitively for several years and I can tread water for as long as I'm awake. Not that I would have to because I can walk the hell home IF my sit on top kayak (which cannot sink BTW) somehow got abducted by aliens. Needless to say I've yet to add a bulky PFD to my kayak fishing equipment list. I have another-I was fishing off a pier in this same creek. I caught a "slot size", meaning legal size, red drum. I was leaving so I filet this fish and throw the filets in the cooler and the rest into the creek. Just then a wildlife officer, that lives in my development, comes walking down the pier. He proceeds to spend the next 45 minutes telling me how he should give me a ticket for having a "mutilated finfish" in my cooler and that is illegal to clean a fish without keeping the carcass until I get to my home. This way they can measure the fish, which I took a picture of prior to cleaning it, and determine if it of legal size. If you live on the water and catch and clean a fish you must take the fish parts up your personal pier to your personal home then turn around and walk your butt back down to the water to discard the carcass. Huh? What is wrong here?
I could go on but I'm sure too many readers are already thinking I am an old codger with authority problems but that assumption would only be 50% accurate.
Thanks