New CAD rebuilding tools!!

[Martinm210]

After much thought about this saw rebuilding and reading a few horror stories about crank bearings giving way, I decided that I wanted to finish up the job and do the crank bearings on my 066 and 044 build. The 044 had a bad bearing anyway.

I tried all the suggest tricks for getting the bearings out without a press, but just couldn't do it. I was also getting tired of trying to clean out in all the nooks and crannys when I wanted to repaint the cases and other parts, so I headed over the hill to my local Harbor Frieght to do some shopping.

First up, my new sand blasting cabinet. Oh so nice, it still takes time, but working really well to get down to bare metal in all those tight places. Strapped in a light, hooked up my shop vac, and went to town stripping pieces clean..

Speaking of sand blasting, has anyone bought and used one of those powder coating systems?

It seems like powder coating a case and starter cover would be the ideal for durability??

And on to my next tool...originally was looking at a 6ton A frame style shop press, but I didn't like the mechanics of it, and was hopefull this 1 Ton arbor press would do the trick.

After cutting out a nice block of wood to press around the crank and turning some aluminum stock for an arbor (socket would work just fine too, I just didn't have any that big). I was in business.... Of coarse my youngest wanted to be included in the operation, my little press helper.

The arbor press works awesome, I don't know how you guys can do these bearings without a press....I couldn't do it even after trying all the heating suggestions.

Cheers to tools..., fairly low cost(around $175 for both) and very helpful CAD rebuilding tools..:greenchainsaw:

 

[Martinm210]

And this is what was lurking behind the flywheel side bearing "AFTER" what I thought was a very good flushing. That's dirt and crud that could have easily washed into the bearing later accelerating wear and possibly leading to failure pretty soon. I've decide that anytime I put on a new cylinder, I'm changing the crank bearings out...it's really not that hard and I'll sleep better knowing I did.

Special thanks to Andy for his case splitting thread here:
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=40590&page=2&highlight=066

It was extremely helpful

 

[teacherman]

And this is what was lurking behind the flywheel side bearing "AFTER" what I thought was a very good flushing. That's dirt and crud that could have easily washed into the bearing later accelerating wear and possibly leading to failure pretty soon. I've decide that anytime I put on a new cylinder, I'm changing the crank bearings out...it's really not that hard and I'll sleep better knowing I did.

Special thanks to Andy for his case splitting thread here:
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=40590&page=2&highlight=066

It was extremely helpful

I seem to recall the Keeper of the Flame saying that the crud will naturally collect on the side of the bearing, which is why NOT to flush them. Also, that the stuff will generally stay put and cause no problem. That seems to be what I recall...........

 

[Martinm210]

Ahh..so flushing could be bad, but what do you do if the cylinder was missing and the crank area was covered in dirt/dust? That's how my 066 came so I had to do some flushing.

For me, I have so much more invested in other new parts, the cost of new crank bearings is relatively small in comparison and worth it to change. The 066 bearings are a bit more pricey, but the 044 are only $50 for the set which isn't too bad...

 

[parrisw]

Ahh..so flushing could be bad, but what do you do if the cylinder was missing and the crank area was covered in dirt/dust? That's how my 066 came so I had to do some flushing.

For me, I have so much more invested in other new parts, the cost of new crank bearings is relatively small in comparison and worth it to change. The 066 bearings are a bit more pricey, but the 044 are only $50 for the set which isn't too bad...

Do yourself a favor and go to a industrial bearing supply and buy your bearings there when you can, you'll save yourself some cash. I just bought a set for my 371 build and cost me $23

Nice blast cabinet. I got one just like it.

 

[Lakeside53]

Do yourself a favor and go to a industrial bearing supply and buy your bearings there when you can, you'll save yourself some cash. I just bought a set for my 371 build and cost me $23

Nice blast cabinet. I got one just like it.

Not for the clutch side 044, or any pro stihl ... OEM only... Even the FW side is proprietary, but often you can get a decent fit with generic...

 

[Martinm210]

Do yourself a favor and go to a industrial bearing supply and buy your bearings there when you can, you'll save yourself some cash. I just bought a set for my 371 build and cost me $23

Nice blast cabinet. I got one just like it.

I'll check that thanks!

Is there anything special you have to ask for (Engine crank bearing), etc.?

 

[Lakeside53]

Ahh..so flushing could be bad, but what do you do if the cylinder was missing and the crank area was covered in dirt/dust? That's how my 066 came so I had to do some flushing.

Then you flush.., after poping out the seals and flushing continously with brakeclean. I've even put the entire crankcase into my ultrasonic cleaner and pounded (ultrasonicly) on it...

 

[parrisw]

Not for the clutch side 044, or any pro stihl ... OEM only... Even the FW side is proprietary, but often you can get a decent fit with generic...

Yes, that's why I said when you can.

Do yourself a favor and go to a industrial bearing supply and buy your bearings there when you can, you'll save yourself some cash. I just bought a set for my 371 build and cost me $23

Nice blast cabinet. I got one just like it.

I realize that sometimes you can't get the right ones.

 

[parrisw]

I'll check that thanks!

Is there anything special you have to ask for (Engine crank bearing), etc.?

Bring your old bearings with you. They'll measure them up, or see if there is a number on the side of them.

 

[Martinm210]

Then you flush.., after poping out the seals and flushing continously with brakeclean. I've even put the entire crankcase into my ultrasonic cleaner and pounded (ultrasonicly) on it...

I already bought OEM bearings and seals for the 066, so I'm going to split the case anyhow but I'll keep that in mind if it happens again.

I guess I was just expecting the splitting and bearing removals to be more difficult than it is. I can see saving the bottom end if it's a fairly new saw or bottom end build and you know the saw from personal use, but if it's an ebay saw or some other you don't know much about, it seems like a really good idea to replace the crank bearings if you're replacing the P&C. I'm not experienced enough to feel very confident about what a good or bad bearing is yet anyhow.

For me, the 044 had a bad bearing. Scoring in the cylinder and impact marks in the jug and piston were as a result of a bearing cage getting chewed up, so it was a good example of what bad can happen when a bearing does fail. My 066 didn't have that problem, but it was without a cylinder for a long period of time. I made the mistake of flushing it without removing the seals, but it hasn't been fired yet and I do have new bearings here for it already. So both of my rebuilds will get new bearings and seals, and I'll probably follow that routine on any other project saws I buy and rebuild.

New tools, I gotta use them...

 

[Martinm210]

Bring your old bearings with you. They'll measure them up, or see if there is a number on the side of them.

OK, thanks!

Unfortunately, the cranks side bearing was toast and I already threw out the inner ring. I'll go down and check them out anyhow, might come in handy for some other saws down the road..

 

[parrisw]

OK, thanks!

Unfortunately, the cranks side bearing was toast and I already threw out the inner ring. I'll go down and check them out anyhow, might come in handy for some other saws down the road..

What about the other side bearing? Measure that.

 

[Martinm210]

What about the other side bearing? Measure that.

They are two different bearings on th 044/440

The Clutch side bearing is 35mm OD x 15mm ID x 13mm Wide - Part#9523-003-4275

The Flywheel side bearing is 35mm OD x 15mm ID x 11mm Wide - Part#9503-003-0346

At least to be best of what I can measure with cheap calipers and assuming the ID is the same on both sides which appears to be correct when measuring the crank. The Stihl IPL notes the same 15x35x13 number in clutch side bearing, but they only note "Grooved ball bearing 6202" on the flywheel side.

There are legible numbers on both of the existing bearings, both say made in Portugal, both have a "W220B" written on both the inner and outer ring, then the clutch side bearing has a "56B304BA" on the outer ring, and the flywheel side has a "562992?" on it, kind of hard to read.

I'll check into industrial bearing shops this week sometime on a lunchbreak and see what they have.

 

[parrisw]

They are two different bearings on th 044/440

The Clutch side bearing is 35mm OD x 15mm ID x 13mm Wide - Part#9523-003-4275

The Flywheel side bearing is 35mm OD x 15mm ID x 11mm Wide - Part#9503-003-0346

At least to be best of what I can measure with cheap calipers and assuming the ID is the same on both sides which appears to be correct when measuring the crank. The Stihl IPL notes the same 15x35x13 number in clutch side bearing, but they only note "Grooved ball bearing 6202" on the flywheel side.

There are legible numbers on both of the existing bearings, both say made in Portugal, both have a "W220B" written on both the inner and outer ring, then the clutch side bearing has a "56B304BA" on the outer ring, and the flywheel side has a "562992?" on it, kind of hard to read.

I'll check into industrial bearing shops this week sometime on a lunchbreak and see what they have.

Just give them the measurments out of the IPL then, but the 6202 is a standard bearing I think.

 

[Lakeside53]

The "6202" is a standard SIZED bearing, but it's not a "standard bearing"... You can get away with some stock bearings if you use C3 fit (don't use "EM" or "electric motor"), 160C operating temp cages (easy now days), and look for one with a decent radius on both inner bore edges (hard to find). If you use one with a metal cage, make sure it is riveted between each ball, not just spot welded. The Stihl bearing has a specific large radius on the inner bore to relieve crank stress. Small radius edges are bad - the crank flexes. And.. use a major brand. like SKF, Nachi, FAG etc..

The crank side bearing is not available anywhere but from the Stihl.

The 5xxx... numbers are the custom spec number that is not able to be cross referenced.

 

[Martinm210]

The "6202" is a standard SIZED bearing, but it's not a "standard bearing"... You can get away with some stock bearings if you use C3 fit (don't use "EM" or "electric motor"), 160C operating temp cages (easy now days), and look for one with a decent radius on both inner bore edges (hard to find). If you use one with a metal cage, make sure it is riveted between each ball, not just spot welded. The Stihl bearing has a specific large radius on the inner bore to relieve crank stress. Small radius edges are bad - the crank flexes. And.. use a major brand. like SKF, Nachi, FAG etc..

The crank side bearing is not available anywhere but from the Stihl.

The 5xxx... numbers are the custom spec number that is not able to be cross referenced.

Thanks Andy!
Great info, I was curious about the radius, they did seam a bit more rounded. If I have to buy one OEM, I may as well get them both. As expected, there's alot more to bearings that I would have imagined. I need to order some paint and an 066 flywheel puller anyhow.

Do you have any thoughts on aftermarket vs OEM seals? I was going to buy an aftermarket kit, but I was curious if there was any sort of noteworthy quality difference in things like the crank seals?

 

[Jacob J.]

Just buy the OEM gasket and seal set. It's not much more than the aftermarket set and the quality is much, much higher. I only bought the aftermarket set once and I was greatly disappointed in the quality of the seals. I tossed that set and have only used OEM. Seals are one of those items that if done right, they can last near to forever. I've been tearing down old Mac 125s lately and on quite a few, the seals are actually still in great shape, even though the saw has sat more than 20 years.

 

[parrisw]

Just buy the OEM gasket and seal set. It's not much more than the aftermarket set and the quality is much, much higher. I only bought the aftermarket set once and I was greatly disappointed in the quality of the seals. I tossed that set and have only used OEM. Seals are one of those items that if done right, they can last near to forever. I've been tearing down old Mac 125s lately and on quite a few, the seals are actually still in great shape, even though the saw has sat more than 20 years.

Good to know, I just put a aftermarket gasket in the case of the 371, along with standard bearings?? Did I do a bad thing here? Oh well, well see how long it lasts. Still waiting on another dam crank seal though.

 

[Jacob J.]

Good to know, I just put a aftermarket gasket in the case of the 371, along with standard bearings?? Did I do a bad thing here? Oh well, well see how long it lasts. Still waiting on another dam crank seal though.

Nah, you'll be fine. Actually, and this is a dirty little secret, the aftermarket case gasket for the 371/372 is better because it comes apart easier if you need to split the case halves in the future. The OEM gasket always comes apart and you end up scraping the case halves. That and the exhaust gasket is too brittle.