New Husqvarna burned up using factory premix

[SteveSr]

Gas goes bad in two ways.

1. The lighter end hydrocarbons evaporate off, leaving the heavier stuff behind. These lighter end hydrocarbons also are the main octane components, and have the highest vapor pressure. This means they're most likely to escape, and you get reduced octane fairly quickly, even if the fuel will still burn. This can mostly be mitigated with a tightly sealed metal barrier can, which is exactly what it comes in. I did let out a tiny bit of those lighter end

The evaporation of these higher volatility components is what provides the majority of the cooling in these small 2-stroke engines. While flywheel fans and cylinder fins help, 2-strokes are essentially fuel cooled engines. This is why running OLD gas can we just as bad (if not worse) than STRAIGHT gas.

 

[Goofaroo]

The reason octane is added to fuel is to make it less volatile (or explosive if that sounds better). That is why low octane fuel pings (or detonates) too soon in high compression engines. It is also why most engines run cleaner on low octane fuel. It’s “explosiveness” makes it burn more completely.

The octane rating that you see at the pump is in fact a measurement of the fuel’s volatility or “anti knock index”. Not a measure of how quickly it evaporates.

If you’re a motorcycle enthusiast you’ll know that antique motorcycles are pretty scarce compared to the number of bikes built back in the early days. A lot of their rarity is attributed to the gasoline of the era. Just to start a bike took a routine of priming, oiling, setting throttle, setting timing, priming the carb, and peddling. Many went up in flames from either operator error or mechanical malfunction. With octane numbers in the 60s and low 70s all it took was a spark or a hot exhaust component to ignite a few drops of leaked fuel and they would go up in flames. Needless to say this led to development of safer fuel and eventually the modern blends we have today which are much more difficult to ignite.

 

[North by Northwest]

You've mentioned this twice now. Are you too cheap to buy oil or what? I'm guessing you buy gas with corn in it too.

Gas with corn in it ?

 

[North by Northwest]

If it was lack of oil the intake side would be scored too.. I'd bet on lean tuning as most saws come no days. Big box stores aren't going to tune them so it's up to the buyer. LEARN how to tune a saw. Steve

Right on Steve !

 

[North by Northwest]

He could do better with Amsoil run it 100:1

Only if in its Sabre !

 

[OM617YOTA]

The reason octane is added to fuel is to make it less volatile (or explosive if that sounds better). That is why low octane fuel pings (or detonates) too soon in high compression engines. It is also why most engines run cleaner on low octane fuel. It’s “explosiveness” makes it burn more completely.

The octane rating that you see at the pump is in fact a measurement of the fuel’s volatility or “anti knock index”. Not a measure of how quickly it evaporates.

If you’re a motorcycle enthusiast you’ll know that antique motorcycles are pretty scarce compared to the number of bikes built back in the early days. A lot of their rarity is attributed to the gasoline of the era. Just to start a bike took a routine of priming, oiling, setting throttle, setting timing, priming the carb, and peddling. Many went up in flames from either operator error or mechanical malfunction. With octane numbers in the 60s and low 70s all it took was a spark or a hot exhaust component to ignite a few drops of leaked fuel and they would go up in flames. Needless to say this led to development of safer fuel and eventually the modern blends we have today which are much more difficult to ignite.

Got you, I see the issue here.

All my posts above, "volatile" meant how easily it evaporates.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/volatile?s=t
I see the second definition, and where you get yours from.

My explanation of why fuel loses octane as it ages stands. Feel free to go back through and replace anywhere I say "volatile components" with "easily evaporated components" in my posts, if that helps.

 

[North by Northwest]

Octane rating is resistance to ignition when exposed to temperature and pressure. The higher the octane, the higher the resistance to ignition when being compressed by a piston in a cylinder. You want that mixture to burn at exactly the right moment, controlled by the spark plug, not whenever it feels like because it got too warm.

Volatility is how easily a substance evaporates. That's it.

Octane rating and volatility have nothing to do with each other, other than the more volatile components also happen to be the ones with more octane. You ever hear of someone leaving regular 87 grade out until the volatile compounds evaporate away, so now they have 92 octane left? No, because that's not how it works. Diesel fuel isn't very volatile at all compared to gasoline but it's octane number is only ~20 or so.

Absolutely Dude !

 

[Goofaroo]

Got you, I see the issue here.

All my posts above, "volatile" meant how easily it evaporates.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/volatile?s=t
I see the second definition, and where you get yours from.

My explanation of why fuel loses octane as it ages stands. Feel free to go back through and replace anywhere I say "volatile components" with "easily evaporated components" in my posts, if that helps.

All this fuel talk is making my head all hurty. All I know is I have no interest in canned premixed fuel. 87 octane with whatever synthetic oil I pick up at the bike shop mixed at 50:1 and I run it in everything and I have never had any issues. In the fall and winter I mix 5 gallons at a time because I run it through my bikes and saws. In the summer I mix one gallon at a time for my trimmers, blowers, and edgers. I don’t need as much in the summer because I replace riding my bikes with floating in the pool. No premix required but my beer and tequila expenses are significant.

I will add that if there are people viewing this that are buying canned fuel because they aren’t sure how to mix their own fuel I would recommend a Ratio Rite. It is simply a plastic funnel shaped pitcher that has everything you need to know molded into it. It measures CCs and ounces and tells you exactly how much oil to add for a given ratio in a given amount of fuel. It’s also very useful for pouring fluids into oil fill holes or anything else you come across. It makes it very easy if you want to empty the tank on a small engine to work on it. Just dump it in the Ratio Rite and when you’re done pour it back in. They’re about $8.00 or so and mine were bought years ago at bike shops but I think they are being sold at other stores as well. I think I saw one at Autozone. I highly recommend it to anyone that does any kind of mechanical work and it will certainly take any mystery out of accurately mixing your fuel. I wouldn’t know what to do without mine. I use it constantly.

 

[Huskybill]

The two stroke oil what little there is separates in the pre mix can when sitting, any size can for that matter. Shake the **** out of the can to blend it again. I add extra oil anyway. I don’t buy new saws twice nor fix them.

I need to come up with a blend of non ethanol gas, husky Xp oil and stabilizer. Gas the saws up, run them, drain the fuel, run them out of gas and store them dry.

 

[cuinrearview]

I don't buy non-ethanol for the octane. I buy it so the corn doesn't separate and turn my fuel lines to mush. If you can't understand it's likely because you don't work on equipment, which is fine. Milky white mushy rubber is part of what fuels my hobby so corn on!!

 

[toadman]

Check the cans before your buy. Packaging regs may vary from country to country, i.e. U.S. vs. AU. I have never seen a oval Moto-Mix can in the U.S. THe few Moto-Mix cans that I have seen have not been tamper sealed.

I found this out today. I dropped off my saw, and looked at the Stihl fuel cans while I was there. Nope. No safety seal of any kind... But I did ask out of curiosity, and there are No returns of any kind allowed on pre mixed fuel, mix oil, oil, any type of filters, or disposable's. even what's unopened or parts still in bag/cartons.
Lowe's told me the same thing, both in person and on the phone. Local manager claimed Corporate allows No returns/refunds of any kind on any type of fuel's or fuel product after it's walked out the doors.

 

[Huskybill]

Screw the manager email the Lowe’s CEO.

 

[full chizel]

I don't buy non-ethanol for the octane. I buy it so the corn doesn't separate and turn my fuel lines to mush. If you can't understand it's likely because you don't work on equipment, which is fine. Milky white mushy rubber is part of what fuels my hobby so corn on!!

Living a mile from Lake St. Clair I probably have 10 places within 10 minutes to get the corn free gas

 

[Okie]

If you are not trying to hide this Lowes purchase from your wife or girlfriend tell her about such with the Lowes return reject story and tell it where she get's mad and tell her you need her to go with you.
Them CS people do not like to talk to a woman, especially a mad woman that wants a REFUND. While she is talking to CS rep (or the manager )video record their response on your phone.
I would think about going to a different Lowes for the refund and take the woman and let her do the talking. Tell them you just changed your mind if within the 60 days return policy. I would not even mention the pre-mix or any other info. Just let on like it's a return, you changed your mind. It does not really matter what caused this it's bad and under warranty, enough said. They do not even need to know that it's bad, just a return. (You may have bought someone's saw that had already been returned, but that don't really matter, it's BAD.
Too much info will just confuse them CS people. Tell your woman friend to go for a REFUND and exchange as a last resort. If you get a refund you can then go buy new elsewhere or take your woman friend out for Dinner and too the Casino.

AND I never ever trust anyone else to mix my chainsaw or 2 cycle gas. I do it myself.
I've worked at places where it was quite common to see chainsaws ruined due to simply pouring gas into a saw from a can because it was supposed to be pre-mixed by someone else and no one knew who done the mix.

 

[Deleted member 117362]

Screw the manager email the Lowe’s CEO.

No, he just wants store managers, district manager. He does not want it to go higher. Your only going to get CEO's secretary.

 

[North by Northwest]

I don't buy non-ethanol for the octane. I buy it so the corn doesn't separate and turn my fuel lines to mush. If you can't understand it's likely because you don't work on equipment, which is fine. Milky white mushy rubber is part of what fuels my hobby so corn on!!

Yeah , non ethanol in the small engines . If I must than startron treated fuel only .

 

[toadman]

Update on my 193t- the guy disassembled it almost entirely, and sanded the cylinder, replaced the piston & rings, lubed and reassembled.
Runs great, I did give it a little richer in the low jet and tune the high, as I felt they were off slightly.
After 2 gallons through it of Stihl premix on a huge double maple removal the last two days, everything looks better than brand new inside
I am ashamed to admit it, but I was even noodling some 25" by 12" thick rounds with it to get them into the truck at the end of the day... not something I''d recommend doing with a saw this small, but it did as well as my 290 I climbed with did, & didn't seem to get overly hot or bog down. Chip clearance in abismal on the 193t. noodling or not, most of my chips where slung all the way around the bar and flying off the tip on the far side of the log, rather than at my feet like most saws. Good for in a tree, but not for noodling. I suspect it robs power pretty bad.
I switched back to the 462 after a short time. 462= better suited for noodling than my 193t.

 

[Brent Nowell]

Big box stores are great for refunds and exchanges, like red mentioned they have the resources to not care about a few hundred dollars to be returned.

to the OP
I’m sorry this happened to you. ‘Tis a shame when you follow directions and it breaks anyways...
For your next saw you can tell when something is not right when

It won’t idle at a steady pace
High idle with the chain spinning
Blogging throttle response
Cracking and sputtering exhaust note at full throttle

those kinds of things are not normal and should be brought to a person with the knowledge to asses it, or return the product.
If you are still into husky, the rancher line up is more money but a much better saw.

 

[Okie]

The evaporation of these higher volatility components is what provides the majority of the cooling in these small 2-stroke engines. While flywheel fans and cylinder fins help, 2-strokes are essentially fuel cooled engines. This is why running OLD gas can we just as bad (if not worse) than STRAIGHT gas.

Very good explanation:
This is why it's critical to get the carb adjusted on the rich side when the Chainsaw engine is loading up into a heavy cut for a longer period of time, gas hitting the piston (not air) is what is helping to keep the piston from expanding too much into the cylinder creating friction and the engine eating itself. Using a tach and adjusting the carb so as not to exceed max rated rpm's will not keep the engine from overheating if the engine is leaning out when into a cut. When the chainsaw engine starts overheating the OPerator may think the saw's chain is just bogging because the engine is slowing down due to piston friction, he takes it out of the cut, piss revs a few times and back into the cut and more damage to the engine when it loads.
The saw's engine may run for a long time being operated if the operator is only taking light cuts in and out of wood and not really loading up the engine for 30 seconds or more into bigger timber cuts and the operator not ever realize the engine is running lean until he starts having saw problems, l;ooks at the piston/cylinder and thinks the problem recently occurred when in fact it was lean and destroying itself slowly over a long period of time. He re-builds the saw and back to the same issue again if he is not aware of how to tune the carb or if the saw is leaning out due to other issues..

 

[mike-s]

The evaporation of these higher volatility components is what provides the majority of the cooling in these small 2-stroke engines. While flywheel fans and cylinder fins help, 2-strokes are essentially fuel cooled engines. This is why running OLD gas can we just as bad (if not worse) than STRAIGHT gas.

You're going to have to provide an authoritative citation to support that claim.