New toy: basket case 084

[Lakeside53]

Andy that is cool! I often think about buying a basket case project saw. I bet they would get heavy cutting day in and day out though. What size bar are you running on it?

right now - 36 .404 for milling, 25 .404 for fun... Came out nice... especially considering it was a pile of junk in a box when I got it - see pics. The 028 is just for size comparison (and it was on the bench).

 

[PWB]

Mine's got a .404 24" bar that came with the burnt one. I do have a 33" hardnose on my big Dolmar that will fit, but I'm planning on putting on a 30" 3/8" Oregon bar that's sitting here when we get around to milling the slot out big enough. Going to start with an 8 tooth drive on a full house square chisel. Toying with getting some of those custom sprockets from Madsen's, maybe a 10 tooth?

Wanted to put the saw in some wood today, but it's raining.

Did a little research, apparently there's two different coils in these saws, rev limited to either 12250 or 12500 rpm. I wrote the numbers down off the coil I put in, don't have it in front of me, but I don't think the numbers match either one. Is there another coil that fits the same "core" that would have been limitless? Two different timing slots on the crank depending on which coil you have. Just thinking there might be some gains to be had............

 

[Lakeside53]

Mine's got a .404 24" bar that came with the burnt one. I do have a 33" hardnose on my big Dolmar that will fit, but I'm planning on putting on a 30" 3/8" Oregon bar that's sitting here when we get around to milling the slot out big enough. Going to start with an 8 tooth drive on a full house square chisel. Toying with getting some of those custom sprockets from Madsen's, maybe a 10 tooth?

Wanted to put the saw in some wood today, but it's raining.

Did a little research, apparently there's two different coils in these saws, rev limited to either 12250 or 12500 rpm. I wrote the numbers down off the coil I put in, don't have it in front of me, but I don't think the numbers match either one. Is there another coil that fits the same "core" that would have been limitless? Two different timing slots on the crank depending on which coil you have. Just thinking there might be some gains to be had............

The earlier 1124 400 1306 was a rev limiting coil. The later coil 1124 400 1308 is NOT rev limiting..

 

[PWB]

Well................. The bulletin I read said they both were, one was just higher than the other. I'm getting frustrated because I can't find the piece of paper I wrote the numbers on. May have to pull the saw apart to check the number again.:bang:

 

[Lakeside53]

Well................. The bulletin I read said they both were, one was just higher than the other. I'm getting frustrated because I can't find the piece of paper I wrote the numbers on. May have to pull the saw apart to check the number again.:bang:

Ha! I did that yesterday for a similar reason... To find out if mine was a 1301 or 1309 coil...

here's the tech note you need:

 

[PWB]

Thanks, found it this morning on "giftsofwood"..........

 

[Lakeside53]

Quote:
Originally Posted by PWB
Well................. The bulletin I read said they both were, one was just higher than the other. I'm getting frustrated because I can't find the piece of paper I wrote the numbers on. May have to pull the saw apart to check the number again.

Ha! I did that yesterday for a similar reason... To find out if mine was a 1301 or 1309 coil...

here's the tech note you need:

I think I found the source of the confusion - the Tech note is contradictory... On Page 1 it says the new coil isn't rev limiting, and on page 2 it says they just changed the limit point. My Stihl tech contact is going to ask the factory, but believes all the 084/088 coils are limiting... I guess nobody reads these tech notes - this one is from 1995!

It's also why they changed the WOT setting from 12,000 to 11,500. If you go much more than 11,500, you'll start to bounce off the ignition limit and if you go further, it's easy to get too lean as the tach won't read correctly (it reads low).

 

[PWB]

Thanks guys, I guess I'm going to have to pop the saw apart again to check the number I've got. In my mind's eye I keep seeing the number on the coil ending in "0"..............

 

[Lakeside53]

Quote:
Originally Posted by PWB
Well................. The bulletin I read said they both were, one was just higher than the other. I'm getting frustrated because I can't find the piece of paper I wrote the numbers on. May have to pull the saw apart to check the number again.






I think I found the source of the confusion - the Tech note is contradictory... On Page 1 it says the new coil isn't rev limiting, and on page 2 it says they just changed the limit point. My Stihl tech contact is going to ask the factory, but believes all the 084/088 coils are limiting... I guess nobody reads these tech notes - this one is from 1995!

It's also why they changed the WOT setting from 12,000 to 11,500. If you go much more than 11,500, you'll start to bounce off the ignition limit and if you go further, it's easy to get too lean as the tach won't read correctly (it reads low).

I got an answer back from Stihl... NEITHER coil is rev limiting.. The tech note was badly written. it appears the timing change between the two allows you to make the minor change in WOT. The WOT change BACK (richer) to 11,500 on the 088 was to keep the cylinder head/piston temperatures down.

 

[PWB]

Thanks, good to know. I've had several people warn me that these are prone to siezing, especially if not allowed a little warmup time. I know I've got it set too rich at the moment, have to get a tach one of these days. Won't two stroke until it's under serious load. I run 40 to one mix (or a littel stiffer), hopefully won't have any problems.

 

[PWB]

Finally got a chance to put this thing in some wood. We milled the slot in a 30" Oregon power match plus bar and put it on with a new 3/8" full house chisel chain with an 8 tooth sprocket. Dropped a big maple, a couple of ashes, a beech, and a cherry that had the top broke out of it. This thing rocks!!!! Nothing like having enough power! This was after work. Used an 066 on some big maples at work today, nice but it's just not the same!
THe beech was scary, cracks running vertical spiraling around the trunk, wind damage. Didn't cause any problems, but sure makes you think!

 

[Frank Boyer]

Quote:
Originally Posted by PWB
Well................. The bulletin I read said they both were, one was just higher than the other. I'm getting frustrated because I can't find the piece of paper I wrote the numbers on. May have to pull the saw apart to check the number again.






I think I found the source of the confusion - the Tech note is contradictory... On Page 1 it says the new coil isn't rev limiting, and on page 2 it says they just changed the limit point. My Stihl tech contact is going to ask the factory, but believes all the 084/088 coils are limiting... I guess nobody reads these tech notes - this one is from 1995!

It's also why they changed the WOT setting from 12,000 to 11,500. If you go much more than 11,500, you'll start to bounce off the ignition limit and if you go further, it's easy to get too lean as the tach won't read correctly (it reads low).

Is there a place that lists the tsb's for saws. I recently got a 084 from my brother and I should have an owner's manual in a few days. Stihl still sells the shop manual for the 084 for $3.95 from my local dealer. The power on these saws is unreal, but they are extremely heavy.

 

[oldsaw]

Is there a place that lists the tsb's for saws. I recently got a 084 from my brother and I should have an owner's manual in a few days. Stihl still sells the shop manual for the 084 for $3.95 from my local dealer. The power on these saws is unreal, but they are extremely heavy.

There is no replacement for displacement in the saw world. That said, I like the balance of power to weight on the 066. Still, I want to buck up a big tree with the 3120 someday. Hopefully soon. Been a wet and now icy winter.

Mark

 

[PES+]

If you like contradictory nonsense you can collect all their TSBs

That little number about the coils is what got me screamed at by the German engineer at a seminar..they were NOT rev limited coils and the reason for the drop in RPM was because they never actually corrected the crank and PTO bearing design flaw in those saws. Your 88 crank broke lakeside not due to a lubrication issue but because the crank is a very poor piece compounded by a deficient PTO bearing web in the case

 

[Lakeside53]

Actually their TSBs are remarkably accurate and good. Maybe a tiny handful of the older sheets have problems..

See my Post # 29... and the 088/880 crank has been unmodifed for 12 years.. and is Stihl going strong... Trust me, I know why my one (and who) broke. Stihl's pretty good about modifying parts if they fail in use - many revision in pistons, bearing, cranks and parts for many saws over the years, but not the 088 crank.


Maybe you should redesign the crank for them? While you are at it, check out the current ignition in the 880 - you still think it's not limited?

Better Stihl - just for Pest: Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure.

 

[Lakeside53]

Is there a place that lists the tsb's for saws. I recently got a 084 from my brother and I should have an owner's manual in a few days. Stihl still sells the shop manual for the 084 for $3.95 from my local dealer. The power on these saws is unreal, but they are extremely heavy.

Yes, Stihl sends out a master list they publish each year or two. The problem will be getting all the old TSB's - dealers (some) have one printed copy, but most prior to 1995 aren't available electronically. We have a set going back over 30 years. If I ever get a month or two with nothing to do, I might just scan everything... maybe... Some realy good reading in the very old service manuals.

I've attached the 2004 list..

 

[PWB]

So what's the latest decision on rpm for this saw? Ordered a tach I'm picking up at the local stihl dealer today. Later saw (see through tank) Coil from earlier solid tank saw, coil has an external trigger. I think I've got hte saw on the rich side, more power available but REALLY don't want to fry it.


Muffler is the two tube version with the arrestor cut off, no basket. Came that way on the older saw.

Do I dare run it at 12,000?

Just while I'm at it, how about some numbers for my 064 and 034 super?

 

[Lakeside53]

If you have the external trigger it's not rev limited so 12k is a decent target (250 rpm here and there is irrelevent).

064 - 13k
034 - 13,500

 

[Cut4fun]

I looked at the coolest looking 880 yesterday with a modded dual port muffler design and yes that 880 muffler is one heavy duty system like you said,Thall.

Good thread here to read.

 

[PWB]

If you have the external trigger it's not rev limited so 12k is a decent target (250 rpm here and there is irrelevent).

064 - 13k
034 - 13,500

Thanks!
Tach is an EDT 8. That and 2 boxes of 7/32 files (boxes of 12, one for me and one for a neighbor) cost me $100 canadian tax and all. Believe it or not that's cheap around here!