Failing graft.
It's possible that both root stocks are not the same.
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It's possible that both root stocks are not the same.
.
Newly Planted Apple In Decline
- Thread starter Raintree
- Start date
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MikeRock
ArboristSite Member
Why aren't the roots underground at least five inches??
The "graft" must remain above ground,,
or, the tree will "un-graft".
- This is obviously not winter kill. It's got wilted leaves.
- Root girdling cannot yet be a problem, as that tree was planted only a year ago.
- I don't think the photo's show any definitive "buried too deep". Furthermore, I don't think Raintree is going to plant one too deep. Notice he said "my property".
- I'm thinking recent heat wave has escalated the cause of the wilting and scorched leaves, coupled with a general vascular decline yet undiagnosed. Notice the other trees have no scorched leaves, and are actively setting fruit. This tree has been declining for quite some time.
I believe some tree varieties are a good deal more resistant to that disease than other varieties, but I don't do any orchard maintenance.
Research says read here:
https://apples.extension.org/table-of-apple-rootstock-susceptibility-to-phytophthora-spp/
Clay soil? "The disease often affects low areas of orchards having heavy, poorly drained soils"
And this note: "Because a number of Phytophthora species cause root, crown, and collar rot, it is difficult to make absolute statements about the relative susceptibility of different rootstocks to these diseases."
https://apples.extension.org/table-of-apple-rootstock-susceptibility-to-phytophthora-spp/
Clay soil? "The disease often affects low areas of orchards having heavy, poorly drained soils"
And this note: "Because a number of Phytophthora species cause root, crown, and collar rot, it is difficult to make absolute statements about the relative susceptibility of different rootstocks to these diseases."
Gamma Woods
ArboristSite Operative
Raintree does seem to know what they are doing, so I was led to believe this thread was intended for the benefit of the Googlers. Obviously, being from TN, the winter isn't to blame but I listed that as a concern for others in more temperamental locations. Planting too deep, poor draining clay and mulching against the trunk can certainly cause these symptoms, as can an unexpected late frost.
Gamma Woods
ArboristSite Operative
Gamma Woods
ArboristSite Operative
Roots that are above ground will typically harden and become wood, burying a bit too shallow doesn't TYPICALLY cause a concern, as long as they get well watered. Raintree is definitely doing a good job watering, so I'm leaning in th eother direction.
I'd ignore the rust, it doesn't kill trees and it doesn't cause wilt like this. You can use sulfur spray to get rid of cedar-apple rust, but the only sure fire way is to get rid of all the apples, or get rid of all the cedars within 2 miles. Fungus jumps back and forth a few times over the year, but at least it's just an annoyance rather than a disaster.
Root girdling takes many years to become a health problem. Generally on the scale of 10-20 years.
Vascular wilt can happen within a few days, and is generally associated with a severe traumatic event (abrupt onset), harsh weather (also short term onset), or vascular pathology, which might be slow or relatively fast, depending upon the tree and pathogen in question.
My point was that this is a pathology that appears to have been acting on the tree since it was planted. Notice the size difference from the adjacent trees. The whole row is the same size except the single tree at the end that is dying.
Your repetition of my statements without any comment suggests that you either don't understand the two seemingly disparate comments, or you somehow think they are in conflict. Do my comments above clarify that for you?
Vascular wilt can happen within a few days, and is generally associated with a severe traumatic event (abrupt onset), harsh weather (also short term onset), or vascular pathology, which might be slow or relatively fast, depending upon the tree and pathogen in question.
My point was that this is a pathology that appears to have been acting on the tree since it was planted. Notice the size difference from the adjacent trees. The whole row is the same size except the single tree at the end that is dying.
Your repetition of my statements without any comment suggests that you either don't understand the two seemingly disparate comments, or you somehow think they are in conflict. Do my comments above clarify that for you?
Gamma Woods
ArboristSite Operative
Not so much a clarification for my benefit, but (once again, for the Googlers) I trust it will be appreciated.
These were planted a season ago, does that make the current situation easier to understand?
These were planted a season ago, does that make the current situation easier to understand?
Absolutely. Especially when compared to the other trees planted at the same time. It is obvious that this tree is not thriving since planted. That is a much different condition than a similar appearing tree that was doing well until recently.
Ever go to the doctor? They pretty much always ask when the symptoms were first observed. Even if it's a cut on your thigh caused by the chainsaw you were using.
Good call Del, the graft has failed. What is the clue from the pictures other than the wilted leaves that the graft has failed?
Excellent guess pdqdl, Phytophthora symptoms would mirror what we see in the wilting apple. It's always something to consider when making observations that a soil borne fungus came in with the nursery stock. Since I am high and dry here with no other trees being symptomatic its unlikely. However we cannot rule it out, when I pull out the tree shortly I will check.
To move this thread along look closely at this picture. 
Who can tell me what's going on with this root collar?
Who can tell me what's going on with this root collar?
The roots are growing off of the lower portion of the mid section scion, if there is a mid scion. Some fruit trees may have scions from 2, 3 or 4 more separate genetics. The rootstock may be completely dead.
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Right you are Del, what we are looking at is adventitious roots growing from the scion. This is not a proper root flare. The hardy rootstock is no longer supporting the tree. These weak roots extend 90⁰ from the lower stem. They will grow as the rootstock begins to fail in an attempt to support the plant.
I pulled the tree out of the ground today, notice the lack of feeder roots. As someone around here would say "your tree is toast ".
You can clearly see the proper root collar just underneath the adventitious "sucker roots".
Carving back the bark one can see the graft line between dead and live wood. No evidence of Phytophthora found.
Sometimes even with the best planting and tree care practices. You can still lose a tree due to it being a poor specimen.
Well, that was fun!
As I said, I'm not an orchard man. I've never even heard of graft failure. I figured that if it gets to the size it was when planted, surely the graft is good to go forever.
Now I've seen quite a few root stocks grow shoots past the grafted upper portion that died. I always associated that with failure of the top due to excess heat, sunscald, and other obvious signs of why the tree died. Now I'll have to start thinking about it differently.
As I said, I'm not an orchard man. I've never even heard of graft failure. I figured that if it gets to the size it was when planted, surely the graft is good to go forever.
Now I've seen quite a few root stocks grow shoots past the grafted upper portion that died. I always associated that with failure of the top due to excess heat, sunscald, and other obvious signs of why the tree died. Now I'll have to start thinking about it differently.
Yes, that's about it. If you grew a variety of apple solely from its seed. You would get wildly inconsistent apple fruit, different levels of sugars and textures. Grafting gives you consistency. Picking a compatible root stock that is hardy and vigorous. The scion or twig to be attached may not of had a robust root system. When the graft fails quickly the scion doesn't have the opportunity to sprout adventitious roots, the tree just dies. In my case the graft slowly failed, when I planted it last year I saw the problem. I was hoping the new scion roots would take over and support the tree. This does have its own challenges, I'll make an other post to explain.
No, it's just the natural variations in the variety of fruit, the consumer wants consistency. Right now in TN the black berries are ready to pick. Ever notice the difference in the berries between patches?
