Not Impressed.

[fritzhund]

Please don't run that motor full throttle and blow it up just because you have an unknown problem. That is not the answer. Sure, you'll split wood, but you will need to re-motor again soon. I agree with others that you probably have a restriction, or a leak. That motor, with a good plug, a break in period, and maintenance, will probably last you for years.

That's why I tore my junkyard Lickity Splitter find down to a large parts pile, and I am putting it back together one piece at a time. Careful inspection and diligent repairs outway anger and frustration big time.

Breathe slowly and take a walk away from it. I have done that 20 times and my toolmaker always has a solution in the morning that costs lunch, or free. You'll get it done in time.

Any photos?

Mark

 

[KsWoodsMan]

I'm going to start splitting my wood for next year soon, I'm going to run the engine wide open and if it doesn't preform I'll be taking apart the Ram and checking the seals.

Thanks for the input guys~

Bill

Sounds like you have a plan.

Occasionally, keep an eye on the pickup screen for the pump. As the seal starts losing more bits off it, a plugged screen can't be good for productivity. But then as it loses more of the seal the productivity will continue to drop.

I wonder if that's what caused the Honda to run out of oil ? was running at WOT trying to get the ram to build enough pressure to split, as it leaked past the seal ?

 

[lone wolf]

Sounds like you have a plan.

Occasionally, keep an eye on the pickup screen for the pump. As the seal starts losing more bits off it, a plugged screen can't be good for productivity. But then as it loses more of the seal the productivity will continue to drop.

I wonder if that's what caused the Honda to run out of oil ? was running at WOT trying to get the ram to build enough pressure to split, as it leaked past the seal ?

Make sure the new motor has a low oil pressure cut off switch:msp_biggrin:

 

[Whitespider]

Wow, been watching this thread and sort’a smiling.

First of all, on a small four cycle engine, setting the throttle lever to “full throttle” is not the same thing as “wide open throttle”. A “wide open throttle” would over rev the engine turning it into scrap steel within a very short time, possibly within seconds. Engine RPM is determined by the governor adjustment when the throttle lever is set in the “full throttle” position; the throttle butterfly plate will only go to “wide open” if engine RPM drops below the governed RPM setting. Most small four cycle engines have their governor set to 3600 RPM’s maximum (with lever at full throttle position), which is perfectly safe… and in fact “full throttle” is where they run the most efficiently, run the coolest and experience the least amount of wear-&-tear when under load. You do more damage to a small four cycle running it at something less than “full throttle” (under load).

Second, most log splitter hydraulic pumps are rated for 3600 RPM’s (to match the engines they’re coupled to), and develop maximum flow and pressure at something very close to that (usually somewhere between 3400 and 3600 RPM’s). Running your new engine at half or three-quarter throttle may only be turning the pump at 2200 RPM… and that ain’t gonna’ build squat for pressure and have very low flow (slow ram speed). Possibly the governor was adjusted wrong at the factory and three-quarter throttle is turning the engine at less than 2000 RPM’s… and that’s gonna’ build pressure measuring even less than said squat. Just because your last engine ran fast enough at three-quarter throttle doesn’t mean this engine is turning the same RPM (after all, you did say it sounded quieter, and seamed to be working less).

You need to find the specs for your pump and engine… and put a tachometer on your engine. Your probably gonna’ find out that your pump is rated for 3600 RPM and your engine is rated for 3600 RPM. If the tach shows your engine is only running, say 2900 RPM at full throttle, the pump is never gonna’ reach maximum rated pressure… and if you’re then running it at three-quarter throttle around only 2000 RPM the ram is gonna’ stop when you try splitting old chewing gum… engine horse power has nothing to do with it if the pump ain’t turning at something close to rated RPM.

Some have suggested that if the engine ain’t stalling the problem has to be in the hydraulics… that ain’t necessarily true because if the engine isn’t turning the pump fast enough it can’t build enough pressure to load the engine enough to stall it. But one thing is for sure… if the engine ain’t stalling, or loading down, then horse power, or lack of it, is not the problem… but RPM is another story. The pump works on RPM, not horse power… the higher the GPM, the more horse power required to maintain RPM under load.

addendum; adjusting the throttle/governor relationship on most small four cycle engines is a simple task.

 

[MS260 Fan]

On thing I noticed is that the Lifan is much quieter then the Honda was, I thought maybe because it was new but maybe it's because it's not running as hard.

I'd put a little honda up against any other 4-stroke for noise..or lack there of. It surprises me that the Lifan seems quieter. Like some of the guys say, an rpm check would be interesting. At the same time I agree with the other guys, if the motor isn't stalling then it points to hydraulics. Anyway, I'm just regurgitating the other posters. It seems like you have it under control. Best of luck!

 

[turnkey4099]

Wow, been watching this thread and sort’a smiling.

First of all, on a small four cycle engine, setting the throttle lever to “full throttle” is not the same thing as “wide open throttle”. A “wide open throttle” would over rev the engine turning it into scrap steel within a very short time, possibly within seconds. Engine RPM is determined by the governor adjustment when the throttle lever is set in the “full throttle” position; the throttle butterfly plate will only go to “wide open” if engine RPM drops below the governed RPM setting. Most small four cycle engines have their governor set to 3600 RPM’s maximum (with lever at full throttle position), which is perfectly safe… and in fact “full throttle” is where they run the most efficiently, run the coolest and experience the least amount of wear-&-tear when under load. You do more damage to a small four cycle running it at something less than “full throttle” (under load).

Second, most log splitter hydraulic pumps are rated for 3600 RPM’s (to match the engines they’re coupled to), and develop maximum flow and pressure at something very close to that (usually somewhere between 3400 and 3600 RPM’s). Running your new engine at half or three-quarter throttle may only be turning the pump at 2200 RPM… and that ain’t gonna’ build squat for pressure and have very low flow (slow ram speed). Possibly the governor was adjusted wrong at the factory and three-quarter throttle is turning the engine at less than 2000 RPM’s… and that’s gonna’ build pressure measuring even less than said squat. Just because your last engine ran fast enough at three-quarter throttle doesn’t mean this engine is turning the same RPM (after all, you did say it sounded quieter, and seamed to be working less).

You need to find the specs for your pump and engine… and put a tachometer on your engine. Your probably gonna’ find out that your pump is rated for 3600 RPM and your engine is rated for 3600 RPM. If the tach shows your engine is only running, say 2900 RPM at full throttle, the pump is never gonna’ reach maximum rated pressure… and if you’re then running it at three-quarter throttle around only 2000 RPM the ram is gonna’ stop when you try splitting old chewing gum… engine horse power has nothing to do with it if the pump ain’t turning at something close to rated RPM.

Some have suggested that if the engine ain’t stalling the problem has to be in the hydraulics… that ain’t necessarily true because if the engine isn’t turning the pump fast enough it can’t build enough pressure to load the engine enough to stall it. But one thing is for sure… if the engine ain’t stalling, or loading down, then horse power, or lack of it, is not the problem… but RPM is another story. The pump works on RPM, not horse power… the higher the GPM, the more horse power required to maintain RPM under load.

addendum; adjusting the throttle/governor relationship on most small four cycle engines is a simple task.

Most hydraulic pumps are positive displacement type and do not depend on rpm to develope pressure.

Harry K

 

[qweesdraw]

I own 3 Lifan (HFT engines),they aren't Kohler or Honda but nothing but good to say about them!
Especially the price.
About 3000 hours on 11hp on my splitter.
Hard to beat!,I will buy another in a heartbeat if these die!
(waiting for the briggs to die on my sawmill)
Mark

 

[TJ-Bill]

Wow, been watching this thread and sort’a smiling.

First of all, on a small four cycle engine, setting the throttle lever to “full throttle” is not the same thing as “wide open throttle”. A “wide open throttle” would over rev the engine turning it into scrap steel within a very short time, possibly within seconds. Engine RPM is determined by the governor adjustment when the throttle lever is set in the “full throttle” position; the throttle butterfly plate will only go to “wide open” if engine RPM drops below the governed RPM setting. Most small four cycle engines have their governor set to 3600 RPM’s maximum (with lever at full throttle position), which is perfectly safe… and in fact “full throttle” is where they run the most efficiently, run the coolest and experience the least amount of wear-&-tear when under load. You do more damage to a small four cycle running it at something less than “full throttle” (under load).

Second, most log splitter hydraulic pumps are rated for 3600 RPM’s (to match the engines they’re coupled to), and develop maximum flow and pressure at something very close to that (usually somewhere between 3400 and 3600 RPM’s). Running your new engine at half or three-quarter throttle may only be turning the pump at 2200 RPM… and that ain’t gonna’ build squat for pressure and have very low flow (slow ram speed). Possibly the governor was adjusted wrong at the factory and three-quarter throttle is turning the engine at less than 2000 RPM’s… and that’s gonna’ build pressure measuring even less than said squat. Just because your last engine ran fast enough at three-quarter throttle doesn’t mean this engine is turning the same RPM (after all, you did say it sounded quieter, and seamed to be working less).

You need to find the specs for your pump and engine… and put a tachometer on your engine. Your probably gonna’ find out that your pump is rated for 3600 RPM and your engine is rated for 3600 RPM. If the tach shows your engine is only running, say 2900 RPM at full throttle, the pump is never gonna’ reach maximum rated pressure… and if you’re then running it at three-quarter throttle around only 2000 RPM the ram is gonna’ stop when you try splitting old chewing gum… engine horse power has nothing to do with it if the pump ain’t turning at something close to rated RPM.

Some have suggested that if the engine ain’t stalling the problem has to be in the hydraulics… that ain’t necessarily true because if the engine isn’t turning the pump fast enough it can’t build enough pressure to load the engine enough to stall it. But one thing is for sure… if the engine ain’t stalling, or loading down, then horse power, or lack of it, is not the problem… but RPM is another story. The pump works on RPM, not horse power… the higher the GPM, the more horse power required to maintain RPM under load.

addendum; adjusting the throttle/governor relationship on most small four cycle engines is a simple task.

Good points. I'm pretty sure my pump is rated at 3600 RPM and since the old Honda was Used there is a chance that someone adjusted the throttle lever or governor. I'm driving by the Dealer this morning and I plan on stopping in and find out what the specs are on the Lifan.

I think it's the the RPM of the motor. It's the only thing that has changed, the problem is probably more me then the motor. The splitter seemed fine before at 3/4 throttle so I just assumed a new comparable motor would produce the same if not better results. I really can't make any conclusions until I find the specs on the Lifan.

I'll post more this morning when I get back to work.

 

[Whitespider]

Most hydraulic pumps are positive displacement type and do not depend on rpm to develope pressure.

That would only be true if the pump was 100% efficient, and none are. Most are only 80% at best (probably less for log splitter pumps), and that’s at, or near rated RPM, efficiency drops away as RPM decreases. Also, as pumps age and wear the efficiency becomes less, making RPM a more critical component. The "positive displacement" nominative is a misnomer of sorts. Try this with almost any log splitter; run the engine at idle and try to split a round… the ram will come up against the round and stop, yet pressure will never build to the point where the engine stalls, it just keeps idling as though no load has been put on it (although heat will build in the system). The label of "positive displacement" is a way to describe pump characteristics… a "positive displacement" pump requires an open center valve and some sort of maximum pressure relief system to prevent damage. A “dynamic” pump can be used with a closed center valve and requires no pressure relief system, it self-regulates in a sort-of way. Both types of pump require a certain minimum RPM to develop maximum pressure and/or flow.

 

[TJ-Bill]

I stopped by the dealer this morning and got a flyer with the specs for the Lifan. They are almost identical to the Honda engine, only difference I can see is there's a little less torque then the Honda at 2500RPM but rated the same Power at 3600 RPM.

For right now I'm going to leave everything as is, until the engine is broken in. Dealer said once the engine is broken in then there's no issues running it Full Throttle for 5-6hrs at a time. Which I would never do.

I will keep you posted.

I have the specs on the other engines if anyone is looking for them.

 

[Oldtimer]

You don't have to worry about running the engine full throttle after break in. Keep good oil and good gas in it is all.

I have an older (12-15 years old?) Tecumseh 5 horse running a newer 13.5 GPM pump on my Mighty Merc, and I run it WFO + some. I mean, it really cranks. Been running it that way for 5 years now, not one problem with it. I have to run it like that or it doesn't move fast enough to suit me. The less time I am bent over the thing, the better.

 

[fritzhund]

Wow, lots of really expert information here. I might be in the same boat here when I get my Lickity put back together. I'll keep an eye on this thread. Thanks.

Mark

 

[TJ-Bill]

Well yesterday was my 1st day splitting at Full throttle. it worked seems to be about the same speed but lacking aittle power. I'll be putting 3-4 hours into it today so I'll have more time to judge.

 

[TJ-Bill]

I split some wood for about 2-3 hours today. Everything seem great then at the end of the day the splitter started to seem like it was loosing power. So I started to trouble shoot thinking back to what some of you were saying before, "it's a hydraulic problem". I took apart the by-pass on my lever to find that someone has put a nut in there to add more pressure on the spring. So I removed the nut and the ram would hardly move. So I put it back in and threaded the retaining nut almost all the way in and I got some gain in pressure but not alot. I tried adding a larger nut and got pretty much the same thing. I had to come in but I'm going to try adding abit more, it looks to me someone either but the wrong spring in the bypass on the spring is just about done. I figured worst thing that can happen is I press the ball all the way in and the by-pass on the pump kicks on. I almost bought a new lever yesterday but I didn't .. maybe I should have..

 

[KsWoodsMan]

I didn't think any splitter pumps had a built in bypass.

Have you extended the ram and checked to see if any of the fluid is getting past the internal seal ?

You should be able to determine that in just a few minutes by extending the ram fully then disconnecting the retract hose from the ram. If fluid comes out of the open hole, while pressing the lever to run it against the stop, the problem is the seals in the ram.

I'm not sure why there would be a nut in the bypass valve unless it was to get the pressure closer to 3,000 PSI for more force, not speed.