Not much response

[mckeetree]

I had asked a beginners question about a mill a while back...not much response. I intend to buy some sort of mill before the end of the year and get started. A guy told me today he wouldn't even consider a chainsaw mill and if I intend to saw much at all with my whatever I end up with bandsaw mill whether it be hydraulic or not don't consider less than 25 horsepower. He has a 40 HP woodmizer. Any input?

 

[Ted Jenkins]

The only thing I have done is run a chain saw mill, but worked with a couple guys who were very good at milling their lumber. As I watched them a couple of things I discovered. The more HP the better. With a under powered saw you will have problems cutting smooth lumber. A lesser powered saw will bog down under heavy loads and leave jagged cut marks in the sawn lumber. The larger band saws are the only way to go. Keeping the blades sharp is super important just like your chain saws. And setup is everything. Shop around. Thanks

 

[wombler]

What are you going to be doing? Commercial or hobby? What sort of access to the wood? For me, a bandsaw mill is massive overkill, because I'm milling for personal use (I swear, officer, this shed full of lumber is just for personal use!), and I'd prefer to keep my land looking relatively pristine, so skidding logs to an open area where a large semi-portable mill can be setup isn't ideal.

That being said, if I was doing it *commercially*, for most purposes, a bandsaw mill is where it's at. If I were doing the framing timber for a whole house, I'd try to avoid using a chainsaw mill. They're much faster and easier to use. If I went into business, though, I'd still keep the chainsaw mill around, because being able to offer that "I can mill that beautiful tree that's fallen down at the back of your house without nuking the garden beds" service would be nice. And I like chainsaws.

 

[scheffa]

I have only ever used a chain saw mill.
For me I already had the saws and acquired bigger bars as needed, this help to spread the cost over a period of time.
I do it mainly as a hobby however I mill most weekends and do sell some timber and mill for other people.
A guy I know runs a saw mill and they use a Lucas mill for their slabs. He was saying the other day that a fella came out to demo a band mill, and the finish of it was not even close to that of the Lucas mill, said it cut really wavy slabs.

I have been looking into buying a Lucas mill slabber however it would need to cut much much faster than the csm to justify the $15,000.

With a band mill it's my understanding that you will often need other equipment to get the logs to the mill and to load them

 

[Blisters]

I would live to have a band saw mill. If I was gonna knock out tons of logs it would be justified but just for some pole sheds and a shop, I can't see spending 10 grand on a used band mill. Find u a good strong saw, build or buy yourself a chainsaw mill and go for it. You may find this sort of thing is not for you. You will have a good saw to use and won't have a pile of money wrapped up in something that seldom gets use. That's just my thoughts.

 

[rarefish383]

Sorry, I went back and checked your other post. Some one else had a similar question and I answered his, thinking I was answering yours. My family was in the Tree Business for 4 generations. Taking wood back to the lot is a necessary evil. We hated messing with firewood because it was, hard work, had to be handled several times, and very low profit per man hour invested. We would wholesale out every thing we could. Being a four generation business, we had a very big and loyal customer base. We made a "LOT" of money in tree work. So, we didn't do lawns or landscaping, no money per man hour, compared to tree work. Times have changed and some people need extra stuff to supplement their tree work. Milling falls into that category. It's hard work, takes big machines, takes up lots of space. Finished lumber isn't worth that much till it's "Finished", cut, kiln dried, planed. If you are just cutting slabs for people to make keepsakes from the tree "Grand Pa" planted, I think you are looking at a lot of time and money spent for a low return. Now that I'm retired I'd love to have a portable band mill, but I'll work for $35 an hour doing something that I think is fun. It's all perspective. We were making $85 per man hour when I retired in 1986, the guys running the family business aren't making that much more now. The profit margin is much tighter now. Can you afford to put men to work with the returns you'll get from the mill? If you have skidders, space, and men standing around waiting to punch out, maybe it will make you a few bucks. As a business, it's all about how much money can you make. Most of the folks here are hobby sawyers. Most would be happy to make $35 per hour. But can you put a 3 man crew on the mill for an hour to cut a couple boards, for $35? Or, will your customers pay $85 per man hour for a 3 man crew to mill a few boards? Now, if you just want a mill, and feel a couple bucks now and then is fine, go for it. As a business, asking hobbiest to spend your money for you, is dangerous. What we think is good money might put you out of business. You can't mill every pine you take down, into two by fours, and compete with HD. So, you are still looking a a "niche" market. Is there enough money for you to justify the expense? Best of luck, Joe.

 

[Blisters]

Very good Fish. Ppl should listen when experience talks. I'm 40 now and I wish I wouldn't have been so hard headed when I was younger and payed attention when the older heads gave sound doctrine.

 

[Cedar Eater]

I sure wouldn't try to make a profit with a chainsaw mill. Mine is strictly an infrequent hobby thing. I haven't operated a bandsaw mill, but I have hired several with the condition that they would give me a break on the price for pulling the slabs and boards off myself so they wouldn't have to pay a helper. From that I conclude that small low-powered bandsaw mills are only suitable for frequent hobby work. If you want to make money, go with more power and more features.

 

[mad murdock]

Looking into the Logosol methodology, that is a mill system that can produce good results for not a lot of money, way less back work than an Alaskan style CSM, and darn near as fast as a BSM. My woodland Bumblebee mill is very fast too. I can mill a log almost as fast as a comparable sized BSM. Hp to Hp and bang for buck ratio, hard to beat the portability and versatility of a CSM. If you are not needing long stuff (logs to mill) a Logosol Farmers M8 is on sale now for 1,399. That is a good price.

 

[rarefish383]

I like that Bumblebee of yours, cool mill, Joe.

 

[mckeetree]

Sorry, I went back and checked your other post. Some one else had a similar question and I answered his, thinking I was answering yours. My family was in the Tree Business for 4 generations. Taking wood back to the lot is a necessary evil. We hated messing with firewood because it was, hard work, had to be handled several times, and very low profit per man hour invested. We would wholesale out every thing we could. Being a four generation business, we had a very big and loyal customer base. We made a "LOT" of money in tree work. So, we didn't do lawns or landscaping, no money per man hour, compared to tree work. Times have changed and some people need extra stuff to supplement their tree work. Milling falls into that category. It's hard work, takes big machines, takes up lots of space. Finished lumber isn't worth that much till it's "Finished", cut, kiln dried, planed. If you are just cutting slabs for people to make keepsakes from the tree "Grand Pa" planted, I think you are looking at a lot of time and money spent for a low return. Now that I'm retired I'd love to have a portable band mill, but I'll work for $35 an hour doing something that I think is fun. It's all perspective. We were making $85 per man hour when I retired in 1986, the guys running the family business aren't making that much more now. The profit margin is much tighter now. Can you afford to put men to work with the returns you'll get from the mill? If you have skidders, space, and men standing around waiting to punch out, maybe it will make you a few bucks. As a business, it's all about how much money can you make. Most of the folks here are hobby sawyers. Most would be happy to make $35 per hour. But can you put a 3 man crew on the mill for an hour to cut a couple boards, for $35? Or, will your customers pay $85 per man hour for a 3 man crew to mill a few boards? Now, if you just want a mill, and feel a couple bucks now and then is fine, go for it. As a business, asking hobbiest to spend your money for you, is dangerous. What we think is good money might put you out of business. You can't mill every pine you take down, into two by fours, and compete with HD. So, you are still looking a a "niche" market. Is there enough money for you to justify the expense? Best of luck, Joe.

Good post and thanks. I'm going to put some thought into your advice. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

You didn't state your intended use for the mill, that makes a BIG decision in what mill to buy...

I started with a CSM, and it took me about 2 minutes to see that was WAAAAAAY too much work for what you ended up with! SO, years later I bought a BSM and never looked back!

You can buy a GOOD used BSM for around 5K and it will still be worth near that IF you decide to sell it a few years later...

Wavy lumber is a product of "operator error" not the HP of the mill! I milled a LOT of BIG logs back when I owned a BSM powered with a 13hp Honda! I made a lot of nice flat lumber, that I sold...

I've seen Swing Mills, CSM's, BSM's and Circle Saw Mills, ALL turn out wavy lumber, it's all about the operator taking the steps to avoid it... PEROID!

Like I said, it's really all about what your plans are for the lumber...

BTW, with a BSM every 5th board is FREE compared to a CSM... That's a LOT of extra lumber that BSM gets out of a log!

SR

 

[rarefish383]

Rob is one of the guys here that actually works his mill, another is Scott Kunz. Scott recently had a heart attack. I just bumped a thread of him working his circle mill, it's a long video, at times it looks like he has 3 or 4 support guys jumping. I think Scott also owns a tree company, could be wrong. These are the guys you need to talk to. We ran 2 full time crews year round, sometimes a third in the summer. We were booked 6-8 weeks out, just too much work to think about other stuff, Joe.

 

[nk14zp]

A CSM is easy to build but if you want production you can't beat a circle mill.

 

[bayard]

i have the base model hobby saw mill.it was 3400 new. the biggest log i have cut up was .a 22inch hickory. it cut it up fine. the only thing i added was a winch to drag the logs on. i put the rig on a trailer that was given to me. if you can get the logs to the mill. thats most of the work.

 

[BobL]

I came to BSMing after 7 years with CSMs. I still like using the CSM as it can do many things our BSM simply cannot do, like take it into someones limited access back yard and slab up a log, tackle bigger logs and carve up whole logs for nature play grounds etc. I learned to generate a good finish with the CSM so very little planing is required.

I also agree that motor power for a BS is not important as I mill small-short logs direct on my 3HP upright wood shop BS and the finish is very acceptable.

BSMs have a much steeper learning curve than CSMs but once you get the hang of it the added productivity quickly recovers your mistakes.

 

[Greenland South]

This is what I had to say in another thread similar to this one.

"The M8 is not that portable, despite the video of what appears to be a rather large Nordic man easily moving the mill from car top to his milling location. I have had my M8 for a few years and use it frequently. It is semi permantly mounted to a 6'x18' deck.
The mill costs about $1800 new. The 3120XP with 24" bar I bought new for $1200. Muffler mod was $100. The roll of skip tooth chain was around $500. Chain spinner and breaker about $200. Chain grinder around $300. So I'm into it a little over 4K.
I probably would have been better off bucking up another couple grand and getting a band mill. Not speaking from experience, I think you can get better production from a band mill and the waste from the kerf should be about 2/3 less. But I do love the roar of that 3120 and the smell of a 2 stroke. And as a side benefit it keeps the grizzly bears away."

 

[BobL]

The mill costs about $1800 new. The 3120XP with 24" bar I bought new for $1200. Muffler mod was $100. The roll of skip tooth chain was around $500. Chain spinner and breaker about $200. Chain grinder around $300. So I'm into it a little over 4K."

I would consider that quite an expensive start to CSMing.
In comparison a used saw, home made mill, a couple of loops of chain, and a few files should not cost anywhere near even a 1/4 of $4k.

It really depends what you intend to use the wood for.
My initial foray into CSM was to gain access to timber for craft purposes and small furniture pieces that was not available else where.
A BSM or production type mill will swamp you with lumber and you will need a lot of space / storage etc.
Unless you are made of money, to justify the purchase you turn into a lumber manager and timber salesman. I hate being a lumber manager / timber salesman which is why I only agreed to maintain and sharpen/set the blades on the BSM I use occasionally.

 

[Cease232]

What rob said is spot on. I had a similar experience and after buying and using a CSM a handful of times realized its not for regular use (for me at least). My BSM is 18 HP, produces perfect lumber as long as the blade is sharp, its well tuned and the operator knows what they're doing. I purchased mine used and have ~5,000 into it and I'm sure I could resell it tomorrow for the same. I still use my CSM for large slabs but its a chore compared to the joy of using my BSM.
Many factors at play here though including intended use, space, ability to store wood and most importantly, capacity for moving/loading logs.

 

[Dave Boyt]

I started out with a chain saw mill, but had a band mill by the next year, and it was a good choice for me. I run the mill part time, and do make some profit from it-- strictly a one-man operation.