Oakzilla!!!!

[clearance]

Actually I didn't do the cutting on this one, but I thought the wedge was just fine... Dunno...

davec, the stump is pretty good in many ways, the undercut is the right size, the backcut is level, the backcut is slightly above the undercut. The holding wood is not cut off at the corners. Other than the dutchman, it is one of the better stumps posted here that was not made by a pro faller.

 

[Curlycherry1]

davec, the stump is pretty good in many ways, the undercut is the right size, the backcut is level, the backcut is slightly above the undercut. The holding wood is not cut off at the corners. Other than the dutchman, it is one of the better stumps posted here that was not made by a pro faller.

Thanks, as I said I am the guilty party. It certainly could have been better, but I don't get to practice on 30" trees anymore. It was an uphill cut with what looked like a questionable lean. I cut into it and I expected it to start to lean and that bugger held straight and tall. There was a ~10 mph intermittent breeze from the 90 degree cross side. So I sunk the 3 wedges into it even though I loathe wedges. I was looking for that extra little insurance because as I said I was to ~3" of holding wood with ZERO movement of that beast. I fully expected that thing to start to lean when I got down to ~3" still holding but it was not moving at all. I kept nibbling, and nibbling at the back cut all the while sinking the wedges in expecting it to go over. Even when it went over it went over very slowly at first.

I had a ~20" oak that was about 50' away from this one drop 90 degrees from where I wanted it too and it crushed my brand new MS660, so I was very cautious with this tree. I did NOT want a repeat of the crushing.

 

[Steve NW WI]

As for cutting the trees down around a house, it is the only way to go. The reason is that big oaks especially and others like them NEVER survive when you mess with their roots or their water table.

...

About 1999 or 2000 that development was a big old mature oak forest. Solid trees for 2-300 acres. They came in and cleared 1/4 to 1/3 acre lots for the houses leaving ~50-100' between the houses back to back, and 20-30' of trees between each house. The land is fairly flat but not totally flat. All the houses have basements. When the houses went in those trees provided plenty of nice shade. The developers sold all those buyers the mystique of building a house in amoungst all those big old trees providing lots of shade and character tot he development. Every house did have ~30-50' of grass around each one because they wanted to keep away from trees falling on the houses. I suspect the developers knew full well what was going to happen next to those trees.

Today nearly every big old tree left standing is dead or dying. The water table was changed with the basements and the roads and so now the trees cannot live. They are all dying.

...

You cannot mess with the water table around a big old oak and have it live. They just cannot tolerate it and I have seen it a million times.

CC, you're on the right path, but I suspect the actual water table itself has little if any to do with it. Rather, between the construction damage to the existing root systems, which are very interwoven in red oak especially, the change in drainage by the landscaping (kind of relates to the water table, but not the same. My water table is close to 70' below my house, and I have oaks growing on the hill 30' higher in elevation out back. But a sudden change in drainage either wetter or drier will have an effect.), and the drought we have had in this area over the last 7-8 years all combine to have a direct effect on the remaining trees, as well as indirect, by making them more susceptible to bugs and disease.

I think if the developers had planned more carefully, the survival rate could have been much higher, but that's not what they're in it for.

 

[Curlycherry1]

I think if the developers had planned more carefully, the survival rate could have been much higher, but that's not what they're in it for.

When the development first went in I was impressed that they did keep far away from the houses with the trees. They even marked off ~30' from the trees with tape so the excavators stayed out of the drip line and thus did not crush the roots. But it was not enough. Those ever so slight shifts in the water level in and around those trees was enough to kill them. Even the few spots where the trees that are left were 300+' of solid trees are also dying, so it is not just the ones on the edges of the lawns. They left big swaths untouched and even those are dying.

The folks living there are quite distressed. For a long time they thought there was a blight. There is indeed blights setting in but only because the trees are stressed.

 

[Dalmatian90]

Interesting Curlcherry!

I took down an old pasture oak for a friend a while ago (it was before I got my '03 Ranger), their development was probably about 10 years old. Pasture had long disappeared when the woods were cleared for the development and I always figured between landscaping and road construction it set the tree into decline.

http://justjakes.blip.tv/file/604309/

Impressed Missy for sure

If I could only go back in time with better saws and better technique!

 

[highpointtree]

Maybe you can't tell from the pic, but they met quite nicely. I think you are seeing the optical illusion from the wiggle in the grain in the wedge area. Plus the wedge depth is a good ~40% of the diameter. I can't see going much farther than that...can you? The wedge was pretty clean in reality...


YES, i WOULD GO AS FAR AS 50% in and leave a 2" hinge. I wouldn't "nip " away at the wedge either. if there were any doubts, I would have set a rope up high with a throw bag. a little deeper wedge will make a big difference in leverege. I'm not the only one that noticed the "dutchman" ..but in all fairness, I've cut a few tree's the same in an open lot situation.

 

[woodhounder]

I've spent more than a couple years planning and designing the layout and positioning of the house, including working with an architect for a good part of that. It's pretty well figured out by now, especially given the site limitations. Plus I've seen what happens when people try to foolishly save a tree that is close to the house. The stress from construction traffic in the dripline and the change in water table from digging/foundations/hardscaping often kill the tree in a few short years. Now you have a giant dead tree hanging over your new house... Seen it too many times.


:agree2: Sounds like you have it figured out Dave.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

Heh heh. Hardly!

Good deal. Here's what happens when folk get clearing crazy. This is about 300 yds down the road from me. If it had 10 or 15 nice trees, it would be a different place. As it is, they cut hay off it. --Ian

 

[highpointtree]

Good deal. Here's what happens when folk get clearing crazy. This is about 300 yds down the road from me. If it had 10 or 15 nice trees, it would be a different place. As it is, they cut hay off it. --Ian

actually, that's what happens when a farmer sells off his pasture's.. and shame on the builder's for not planting new tree's... I see new homes built on old farmland all day long where I'm at..

 

[Haywire Haywood]

actually, that's what happens when a farmer sells off his pasture's..

True, but the visual effect is the same.

Ian

 

[Curlycherry1]

actually, that's what happens when a farmer sells off his pasture's.. and shame on the builder's for not planting new tree's... I see new homes built on old farmland all day long where I'm at..

We got a ton of those properties around us. What amazes me is these folks mow and maintain all that grass.

Me, I would have a couple of acres of pick your own blueberries, maybe some raspberries, honeyberries and some cherry trees. I would plant the rest in Christmas trees that I would wholesale out to the other local cut your own places that cannot keep up with demand. That would kick in a few pennies to keep the tax man at bay by having a nice little side business to write off the cost of my toys, er, tools that I would "need" to run the business.

 

[highpointtree]

We got a ton of those properties around us. What amazes me is these folks mow and maintain all that grass.

Me, I would have a couple of acres of pick your own blueberries, maybe some raspberries, honeyberries and some cherry trees. I would plant the rest in Christmas trees that I would wholesale out to the other local cut your own places that cannot keep up with demand. That would kick in a few pennies to keep the tax man at bay by having a nice little side business to write off the cost of my toys, er, tools that I would "need" to run the business.

would ya get mad at me if i helped myself to some nice berry pies cooling in the window.

 

[davec]

Good deal. Here's what happens when folk get clearing crazy. This is about 300 yds down the road from me. If it had 10 or 15 nice trees, it would be a different place. As it is, they cut hay off it. --Ian

Ah yes. I like to call that Little House on the Prairie Syndrome. Hate it. And yes there is a lot of that around here. To give you an idea, here is the approx lot borders, and what it looks like:

Total lot size is around 10 ac. North is up, and there is a severe slope uphill to the south, so it is necessary to clear a bit more than typical to get any daylight in the house site, and also to prevent trees on the up slope from coming down on the house later. This is an approximate look at what has been cleared (red blob).

YES, i WOULD GO AS FAR AS 50% in and leave a 2" hinge. I wouldn't "nip " away at the wedge either. if there were any doubts, I would have set a rope up high with a throw bag. a little deeper wedge will make a big difference in leverege. I'm not the only one that noticed the "dutchman" ..but in all fairness, I've cut a few tree's the same in an open lot situation.

Eh, fair enough. I guess it wasn't as perfect as I thought, but it was still pretty darn decent. Making everything meet up nicely on a tree of that size takes some experience and an eye for it. And yes I know there are a lot bigger trees out there. I've seen some of Slingr's videos and they are amazing.

I guess I see the dutchman you are referring to...but...What little dutchman there was didn't stop the tree from starting to tip. It was just very well balanced. It didn't move until there was very little hinge left (nipping the backcut, there was no nipping at the wedge side - with felling wedges already in place) and lots of felling wedge action pushing it to tip. We both thought it was "fer sure" going that direction, but it would not be the first tree in this lot that we were "sure" about where the read lied to us. Mind you on these tough ones, we spend some time looking at it from all directions, so it is not a knee jerk decision. We've known this one was coming down for a month, but were waiting on it until everything else nearby was cleared. We looked it over a ton. Still didn't want to cooperate...

So we learn a bit and improve and move on.

-Dave

 

[Haywire Haywood]

This is an approximate look at what has been cleared (red blob).

Sweet setup Dave, exactly what I want to do but don't have the resources. 10 acre wooded "lot" with a house in the middle. Privacy. We used to have that til the double wides moved in. Now I have to make sure the blinds are closed if I want to walk around the house in my skivvies.

Ian

 

[Ductape]

In the future, it'll be really hard to find property that still has mature hardwoods left. Much higher resale & even appraised value for refinance prospects.

Yeah, i remember when my wife and i were financing our house. The bank told us they wouldn't loan us 80% on our house......... only 60%, because there were no large oak trees in the yard.

 

[tomtrees58]

nice t

ree heres one red oak 9' 18 dba tom trees

 

[olyman]

My oh my! Lots of angst on the boards today? But to most of you: thanks for the kind words.



Heh heh. Hardly! The lot is 10 acres of solid hardwoods. Plenty of good sized trees out there that will have many years to grow. I should have been more clear - it is the biggest tree in the area of clearing. There are a couple bigger ones way out of the way.



The hinge was steadily nipped away alternatig with pounding the wedges to get them to work and the tree to finally go over. I assure you, the cutting would have stopped sooner had it been willing to go over...




Maybe you can't tell from the pic, but they met quite nicely. I think you are seeing the optical illusion from the wiggle in the grain in the wedge area. Plus the wedge depth is a good ~40% of the diameter. I can't see going much farther than that...can you? The wedge was pretty clean in reality...



Well as already stated, it is really only the biggest one in the clearing area. The lot is quite hilly and there is only one decent area to put a house - the plateau where we are clearing. The county restricts building on slopes quite severely, so the options are limited. Plus this will be our final house, so I am not exactly worried about the impact of that tree on resale value in 30-50 yrs. Sorry - that argument won't get you far. But thanks for jumping to conclusions!

And there's another wrinkle: The property had been logged off for lumber probably 12-15 yrs ago - well before we bought it. For some reason they left this tree and we were puzzling over why as it was accessible and big enough for lumber. After we started blocking it up we found out why: The forresters are very good at spotting problems and skipping those trees. This tree had rot down the middle due to damage up high. So while it looks great at the stump, a few feet up the rot starts and gets progressively worse. So unfortunately it wouldn't even produce the quality lumber you might think.

I've spent more than a couple years planning and designing the layout and positioning of the house, including working with an architect for a good part of that. It's pretty well figured out by now, especially given the site limitations. Plus I've seen what happens when people try to foolishly save a tree that is close to the house. The stress from construction traffic in the dripline and the change in water table from digging/foundations/hardscaping often kill the tree in a few short years. Now you have a giant dead tree hanging over your new house... Seen it too many times.

:deadhorse:

Sheesh. Sounds like a couple of you folks forget where your firewood and furniture come from... Hint: it isn't from the 4-6" dia twigs. So flame on!

-Dave

good on ya---there be some on this board--both young and old--that know everything--just ask em. like you just explained it,asked for no critique,and they start flaming--par for course--but you told em which way is up--cool

 

[Curlycherry1]

That is what held her up the evil dutchman from what the pics are telling. Was the tree in poor health or was your saw hungry and saying feed me.

Actually the Dutchman did not hold it up. It just sat there straight and tall until enough wood was cut that it could go over. Once it started it went right down, bounced off the bottom edge of the wedge and jumped a foot or two up the hill just like it was planned. That is an up hill fall so I did not want it coming back down the hill at me.

I thoguht about cleaning up the Dutchman but I often make things worse when I get to monkeying with those.

As for the poor health, this is a good study tree. It was the biggest one left in the area that was logged 10-15 years ago and so I commented to Dave that there must have been a reason this tree was left and not taken out as a log for lumber. So here is the pic that shows the problem(s). I will stick it here and then the armchair foresters can point out the flaws and tell why it was left, and why once we cut into it we found the early signs of rot.

Everything you need to see is in this photo. So any guesses what we saw once we looked at it more carefully?

 

[brogan007]

Chill baby.

Guys, this is a forum, not a court of law. The whole point of these forums, and the main advantage for the participants...is the free exchange of viewpoints.
Everyone has an opinion, and whether we agree or not....we have to be able to hear the other guy's side....without pulling out a revolver!
I insulted nobody. I didn't sling mud.
I wrote my opinion. Pure & simple.
This is surely doesn't qualify as a flame???
I fear that, in general, "free debate" is at risk of becoming extinct in the USA.

 

[davec]

Well it may have not been your intent, but it sure came across a lot more judgemental that it seems you wanted it to, at least per what you are saying in this recent post. One of the weaknesses of internet forums: Tone doesn't come through well. The smilies can help a bit, but they aren't perfect either.

You are entitled to your opinion, as everyone. No blood no foul. But what exactly were you debating? I wasn't debating. Just sharing some of our recent efforts.