Opinions on fireplace insert

[Rich M]

Getting ready to pull the trigger on a wood burning fireplace insert. Holy smokes are they expensive! The one we're looking at (only one I can find that will fit) is a flush mount Elite 33 by Fireplace Extrodinaire. Total cost is close to 4k. Our hearth is only 17-3/4" deep and sits directly on the floor hence the need for a flush mount. Our fireplace is huge so that aspect is not an issue.

We use fuel oil and have an inefficent 50 y/o house, cinderblock on concrete slab. Burning 5-6 full cord a year in the fireplace w/heatilator has cut our heating bill by about a 3rd. Hoping that an insert will significantly reduce (if not eliminate) fuel oil use and hopefully cut down on wood use as well. The house is only 1500 s/f, single story, 9' celings and open floor plan. We're in NW Lower MI where the winters are long and cold.

What do you guys think, are my expectations resonable? If I could use it as my main source of heat, according to my calculations it will pay for itself in short order. Any opinions on the brand/model as well? Thanks in advance.

 

[sawinredneck]

I would look for used, you would be amazed at what you can pick up in the newspaper for cheap! Worth spending some time and looking into, even on the net, at 4k seems like a lot of money to me. I had a new heater heatpump/air cond unit with metal duct work installed for $3200, and the savings off of the heatpump alone has paid for itself in 2 years, we are all electric here. I have a small Buck airtight that I suplement with, I can and have kept the house comfortable with just the wood stove and the generator running the fan, 1300sf.. And, got the stove used for $75 out of the news paper. Yes it's old technology and the newer ones are 100 times more eficient, but dollar to dollar, I can't complain!
I don't thinkyou're expectations are out of line, I may be, but I think the cost is!!! I would research a little more and find some other options. 4k seems very high to me for an insert!
Andy

 

[Rich M]

Yeah, I about fell over when they quoted. It does include a full chimeny reline in stainless steel, blower, tax etc. I'm trying to bide my time looking at every possible source but heating season is nearly a month away and I can't find anything that will fit on our hearth. Thanks for the help.

 

[olyman]

why reline your fireplace chimney--it bad--also--if you have a tractor supply in your area--go check out their woodstoves--and the prices!!!!!

 

[elektrobot]

Quadrafire 2700

You might want to check out the quadrafire 2700. it is only 17 1/16" deep, and might work a little better, or be a little cheaper than the one you are currently looking at. Good luck finding one you like! I installed an insert last novermber and it works great. It will be a huge improvement over what you have right now. Its amazing how much heat these things can put out.

you can check out the quadrafire at: http://www.quadrafire.com/products/inserts/woodInsertDetail.asp?f=2700i

 

[Patrick62]

That sounds a little high to me

Inserts can be had, and they work well. The stainless steel lining is simply a long piece of flex pipe. I installed the one here, the only tricky part was getting it thru the existing fire place damper (sawzall).

Hooking it to the insert was a little tricky as well, but not a real big deal.

The more efficient burn means more heat from less wood.

-Pat

 

[Rspike]

All the information you will need . If you cant find it ......... go to the forums and ask . A world of information . http://www.**********/community.html

 

[sawinredneck]

Excelent post rspike!!!
Andy

 

[Rspike]

Com-mon in , Join the Hearth community . Pull up a seat around the fire .

 

[Rspike]

Nice stove treeco ............ Alright ,Ya get it started now. I'll have to dig one up of mine.

 

[Rspike]

Pacific Energy Summit . “Classic” ~Porcelain Enamel “Sunset Red” freestanding http://www.pacificenergy.net/
<img src="http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/Roospike/FOURM/P.jpg"> <img src="http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/Roospike/FOURM/PIC00005.jpg">

 

[046]

I agree that a free standing fire box is better than an fireplace insert. much easier to duct heat into main house ducts.

for my house's layout with an existing HUGE fireplace. an insert made more sense. it's just makes running ducts much harder.

I've done a series posts on my JUCA fireplace insert. which uses technology better by a large margin than ANY other wood burning insert that I'm aware of.

JUCA's firebox is HUGE, can burn up to 2ft X 2ft wood. but most of the time I throw in 24in X 12in unsplit logs. burns very_clean, creates very little creosote and smoke.

this JUCA is one big heat exchanger.

best of all is I paid approx. $1,800 shipped to my door. this is for a custom built fireplace-insert, spec'd to my fireplace's dimensions. price paid included extra for oversize and variable fan controls.

These JUCA guys are totally honest and are backed up with orders. I had to wait almost three years. once my order was placed and deposit sent. it went pretty quick.

insert fit like a glove into my odd sized hand built fireplace. switched entirely to wood heat last season. installed in Jan so, didn't get to use an entire season. performed really well.

still need to duct output into main ducts and install a larger blower motor.

do a search for JUCA and you'll find their website, which contains the most info on wood buring on WWW.

 

[belgian]

I'll take a free standing stove any day over an insert. I do not like the sounds of fans running. It's nice not needing electricity for those times the power is out. We also cook on ours during power failures.

Treeco mentioned an important point here. We have also an insert wood stove with fans to regulate the heat output. Inserts are very popular at this side of the pond, and cost about 2500 $ uninstalled, depending on size and type.

Ours is a 9 kW model, but you really need to put the electrical fans at its max. power to achieve this kind of output and decent efficiency, and at this level, the noise is really a PITA. My father has a stand alone wood fireplace without fans and I must admit that heat efficiency is a lot better than ours. If you have the space to put one, and heating is more important than design, I recommend the free standing one.
roland

 

[046]

a few issues ...

1. it takes large Cubic feet per minute (cfm) to deliver enough BTU's needed to air condition your house. look at the size of your existing ducts. So yes air handlers large enough move 1,500 - 2,500 cfm, enough to air condition a house will generate noise.

2. Airtight designs can't use extensive heat exchangers to improve efficiency. Airtight designs produces creosote in smoke, and creosote condenses at approx. 350°F. airtight stoves must not be extremely efficient. Otherwise, massive creosote accumulation would result in chimney systems.

3. JUCAs are non-airtight like a normal fireplace. fire burns very cleanly. very little creosote in the smoke, so JUCA can capture max amount of heat in the smoke! super efficient JUCA can have smoke temperatures of 250°F. capturing 100+ degrees of heat from the smoke. so how large heat exchange area is available, determinds how much heat is captured before heading up the chimney. look at photo posted above of JUCA insert, note huge heat exchange area.

 

[Rich M]

Great information, thanks guys. We don't have the space for a freestanding woodstove or I would certainly go that route. The existing fireplace has a heatilator with blowers so I'm used to some noise. While I could save a buck going with a smaller unit I want a large firebox and as mentioned earlier it has to be flush mounted because of my hearth. These 2 factors are severly limiting my choices. I checked with the largest, best known dealer in my region and his price for the same unit/install was exactly the same.

If I can use less wood and nearly (if not entirely) elminate the fuel oil it's a done deal because the savings should pay for it in a few years. Thanks again for the links and advice.

 

[monk680]

My insert provides almost 90% of my heat. You will be pleased with your insert.

 

[046]

besides costs of fireplace insert. look to see how big the firebox is. this determinds how large load of wood you can insert = how long max burntime

don't be fooled by front of insert size. most mfg will make firebox small and face plate large. this is done to fit max number of fireplaces.

this is where a custom built fireplace insert has a real advantage. you can make firebox largest allowable size limited by how large your fireplace is.

here's a picture of front of my JUCA insert. compare that to picture of backside to show how massive JUCA firebox/heat exchange area actually is.

size of logs burning in picture is aprox. 2ft long

 

[Rich M]

Wow, that Juca is huge! But...a 3 year wait?!? I suppose that's to be expected with custom manufacturing but we can't wait that long. Our fireplace is large and we are going with the largest insert/firebox we can fit into it.

Incidentally, we have decided to go with a Country Stoves C310. I was somewhat mislead by the first dealer as to hearth clearances. The Country Stoves dealer showed us hearth pads/extensions that solve that problem. The C310 protrudes 9" onto the hearth providing a cook top and much better radiant heat, more like a free standing stove, and is about $500 less! Glad I took the time to shop around and talked to more than one "salesman".

 

[046]

Delivery was actually 60 days after I made my 50% deposit. JUCA stopped taking orders for the longest time.

3 years was how long I waited before they would take my order.

it may be worth a try contacting JUCA to see how production schedule is. last I heard they were cranking up production again. they may be able to one done long before winter.

if they can fit you in, aprox. $1,800 for a state of the art custom insert VS paying $3,000-$4,000 for a stock insert of simular size.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

You might want to check out the quadrafire 2700. it is only 17 1/16" deep, and might work a little better, or be a little cheaper than the one you are currently looking at. Good luck finding one you like! I installed an insert last novermber and it works great. It will be a huge improvement over what you have right now. Its amazing how much heat these things can put out.

you can check out the quadrafire at: http://www.quadrafire.com/products/inserts/woodInsertDetail.asp?f=2700i

Nother vote for the Quad.


I have the 5100I, 3 cubic foot firebox takes 22" logs and is super efficent with its 4 burn zones. Their made from 3/8" and 5/16" boiler plate and come with a 20-30yr warranty.


The fans arent so bad on these, but If any fans bother you you can convert over to squirrel cage fans witch are nearly silent.


The neat thing about the quads is the entire stove is the heat exchanger. Air is blown into the walls of the stove from underneath, allowed to blow around and up the sides and rear then blown out the vent on the top/front of the stove.


Everything but the door (1/2"cast iron) adds to the stream of hot air coming out the front into the room.