Opinions Please - Cut This Tree ??

[Fireaxman]

A lot of pines went through the roofs in Katrina. This one survived in remarkably good shape, only a few broken limbs. But, a very large pecan just on the other side of the house was blown down at the roots, fortunately falling away from the house. If this pine had fallen in the same direction as the pecan, it would destroy the house.

The owners (freinds of mine) are concerned that any storm next year could bring down this pine. They have no insurance, and very limited resources. My freind has been quite sick for some time and is limited in how much work he can do.

What do you think? Should I take it down? If not, what would you suggest on pruning?

 

[boo]

Save the trees.
It's hard to properly diagnose from a picture, but I see no reason to take them down.
Do what you can to save them. Safe to say have the broken, and dead limbs removed.
I've read somewhere>>"for a doctor to give treatment before proper diagnosis, is mal-practice".
I have found that a very reasonable statement applied to tree work.

 

[DirtTroll]

If it was a friend of mine or a member of my family and they had no insurace, the answer is simple. ByeBye dear tree. They can't afford not to. Thinking otherwise is living outside of reality. After having gone through a hurricane, your thoughts on what is safe and what isn't changes dramaticly. Oak trees are the first to come over (failure at the roots). Pines while having a strong taproot, snap off two thirds the way up and slice through a house like a knife through butter by breaking off and gaining velocity as it comes down, actually creating more damage than the oak that go over first but fall over much slower. That one is particuarlly bad with the co-dominate stem at the top in my opinion.

 

[Trignog]

Considering your friends ins. situation it's a tough call.

I would say leave it be, but would the home owner.

Also remember if other trees around it have fallen it would change the dynamics of the tree during wind events. Not knowing the property prior to the storm makes that an impossible call for me. I just think of when I see a stand of trees cut in half I will always spot a few on the edges that have blown down due to new exposure to winds.

From the pictures it looks almost like a full sun tree and provide significant shade to the house wich I bet would very important down there.

Just my thoughts.

Leave it be!

 

[fmueller]

I'd vote bye bye tree as well. It looks to be a nice tree but if they have no insurance and that thing fell into the house they'd be in quite a mess. I had a big black cherry tree next to my house that I had taken down cause it was leaning over the house. I'll miss the shade and the tree itself but I used to worry every time the wind started blowing 25mph around here. Actually we had some good wind here the other night and another black cherry broke off about halfway up the stem not far from the house and destroyed a fence. It could have easily been the one next to the house. Now its gone and I'm glad. One less thing to worry about.
My 2C.

 

[treeseer]

Good points about codominant stem and increased wind load due to other trees being gone. These can be addressed by lightly thinning and reducing the crown, especially the lead toward the house. The fork looks like a wide enough angle, but a cable could not hurt.

I've been thru a lot of storms and a lot of aftermaths and still I see no need to cut down every big tree that is near a house. There are many options between leave it be and bye bye tree.

 

[boo]

What does that tree do for the property value, and electric bill vs. insurance and securing the tree cost?

 

[pantheraba]

Good points about codominant stem and increased wind load due to other trees being gone.

I have heard of the "fan effect" when considering big trees like that. I assume there is a preferred method of decreasing the fan effect to help prevent the wind from blowing the tree down.

Where is a good place to get info on preferred pruning methods to reduce the wind load?

 

[Trignog]

Gillman

 

[pantheraba]

Thanks for the lead...he has a very informative site:

http://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/woody/pruning/

 

[treeseer]

http://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/woody/pruning/

 

[Kate Butler]

No insurance? Keeping the tree is like playing Russian roulette. Sooner or later you'll live (or, perhaps, not live) to regret keeping the tree.

 

[rebelman]

Prune the codominant stem toward the house, in the process examining for cracks. thin the remaining canopy some. Mix the chips with compost and protect the root zone. Sip lemonade in the shade.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Edit: That is a good thought Dan.

i do think that you don't just affect 1 side of a balance at a time, but both sides.... Removing half of codom; especially from such high leveraged positioning can inadvertently tilt the physics beyond self equilibrium. Though it would be less loaded; it would be in fact less loaded!!! Loaded tight is good, less loaded but loose ain't! The tree has groan to self maximizing stature; you would be altering that.

Always like to see a closeup of ground connection. Good to give area history about other tree as wind break coming down, giving this more wind loading. But, it would seem that that wind loading would be pushing away from house(?), and that there still is windbreaks intact on side that pushes towards house(?)

We seem to see a higher occurrence of lightning hitting pines and jumping to house through any conductor; i think i see a tin/conductive roof. i think pine codoms are more failure prone. Many of our local pines are about at the end of their run at the approximate size/age shown (or before).

It is all a crap shoot; sometimes ya gotta make a decision that takes into consideration the homeowners position/feelings. If it stays, might show'em how to throw a throwbag and reeve a line through V, tieing off to base on side towards house and Zrig back away to proper anchor for TEMPORARY extra storm protection a 2x a year(?). Also consider dynamic cable between forks.

 

[boynature]

My dad had a friend die while he was sleeping when a tree fell during a storm. It hit the house over the bedroom, didn't go through the house but knocked a shelf down and it landed on his head. That tree looks like it could do alot more than knock something off the wall if it were to come down. So unless you friend wears a cape and has a Big S on his chest, he probably would elect not to be home if it were to come down, and that's impossible to predict. I'm sure they feel there safty is more important than the tree or the house. Especially with those co-dominant stems. Just a thought.

 

[fmueller]

"So unless you friend wears a cape and has a Big S on his chest, he probably would elect not to be home if it were to come down, " Some of you guys are in the wrong biz, ya outta be comedy writers or something Sorry , no disrespect intended for your Dads friend. Just that line cracked me up.

 

[treeseer]

"Keeping the tree is like playing Russian roulette. Sooner or later you'll live (or, perhaps, not live) to regret keeping the tree."

Kate, this is so not true. Where is your crystal ball? I thought you were a landscaper, but you're sounding like a treecudder who sells removals based on fear. this is supposed to be an arborist site, right?

Without defects or more details there is no way that from your seat at a computer in Vermont you can judge this tree's fate.

 

[Kate Butler]

playing the odds

"Keeping the tree is like playing Russian roulette. Sooner or later you'll live (or, perhaps, not live) to regret keeping the tree."

Kate, this is so not true. Where is your crystal ball? I thought you were a landscaper, but you're sounding like a treecudder who sells removals based on fear. this is supposed to be an arborist site, right?

Without defects or more details there is no way that from your seat at a computer in Vermont you can judge this tree's fate.

I'm playing the odds. I just recently lost the co-dom tops out of a 38" dbh black locust to a freak wet/snowstorm and windstorm. They came down on my house (10' away) and (gratefully) slid down the metal roof doing little damage to the house because of the metal roof. The pieces were more than 30' long and would have gone through the roof if farther away (and able to develop more momentum as they fell). Or, perhaps if the roof had been shingles, the branches would have stabbed through without sliding off. These pieces snapped about 30' above the ground and could have killed the occupants of 2 bedrooms. Fear?? You betcha. I was in one of those bedrooms when the first piece came down.

I kept the remains of the tree. Black locust are notorious re-sprouters and the 30' left aboveground MAY survive to regrow. Time will tell.

I HAVE insurance. It cost me $600.00 to have the cuts cleaned up (there was another tree involved, also, but not so close to the house). My insurance has a limit if $100.00 for ALL tree damage in any one storm. How happy do you think I am? I would have been better off if there HAD been more damage to the house (large deductible to keep the rates lower).

How do you think these folks in the post will cope if the tree (or parts of the tree) fail with them having no insurance? If they can't afford insurance, the chance that they can afford cabling is slim to none. Sorry, but we disagree. Under the posted circumstances, if the tree were mine, I'd take it out.

 

[boo]

whats the cost to remove it vs. servicing?
(target limb removal, light pruning, cabling) = overal value

 

[treeseer]

"I had a big black cherry tree next to my house that I had taken down cause it was leaning over the house. I'll miss the shade and the tree itself but ...One less thing to worry about."

fm, why didn't you have the tree pruned, to lessen the lean? And you still have things to worry about, don't you? We never run out of those.

"I just recently lost the co-dom tops out of a 38" dbh black locust to a freak wet/snowstorm and windstorm. They came down on my house (10' away) ...These pieces snapped about 30' above the ground and could have killed the occupants of 2 bedrooms. Fear?? You betcha."

Kate, why didn't you have the trees pruned before Did you even have the crowns inspected??
What these two tales have in common are trees near houses that posed a risk but that risk was not managed by an arborist. Fear ruled, and value was lost. Now both of you are counseling this other tree owner to act on the basis of fear. You may be authorities on that, but cheaper more rational options that you are less familiar with need to be considered; thinning, reducing, cabling etc.

Could it be that the last 2 codoms were the surviving sprouts from a previous break, and you are setting the tree up for the same kind of failure down the road if the tree is not pruned every few years? I'm sorry it cost you so much--6 bills to clean up cuts on two trees? Sounds like more than a proper pre-storm pruning would have cost. I just charged $480 to trim 5 storm-damaged trees; VT is pricey, eh?

Also, you have the poorest insurance policy I ever heard of. I'm sorry for your loss, but I wouldn't wish a needless expensive removal on a stranger. I play the odds too, but the game is not rigged; my clients don't have fear thrown into their hearts so they opt for tree care.