opinions

[Mitchell]

Hey folks just wondering about cabling.

Specifically, I was considering cabling a large [apx 300 year old] healthy 3 dbh 75' Oak with 90% of its branch weight in one direction [over a house] to a healthy 2.5' dbh 100' douglas fir 20 feet back of the oaks lean.
I was also going to reduce some tip weight and remove a few of the big 30 foot branches over the house.
The HO wants a removal after it shed a branch this summer. I have suggested the above as an alternative.
I am concerned about the cable training the tree to depend on the support or if left slack the cable snapping tight in winds.
I thought cabling lower then the 2/3 recomended might solve the snapping tight in a wind scenerio. the cable should still catch the tree if it starts to wind throw as a couple others in the neighbours across the street have.

Anyrate, hope the trick or treating went well for those of you with kidlins.

 

[Fireaxman]

... I am concerned about the cable training the tree to depend on the support or if left slack the cable snapping tight in winds.
....

Have you considered Dynamic Cabling? Page 123 of the 2007 Sherrill Master Catalog. Specificly there is a "TreeSave Add-On Damper" that might be just what you are looking for. I have an old live oak strung together with this stuff in a strictly amature fashion and I am really impressed with how well it has done.

 

[Mitchell]

ill try for photos

My wife and kids keep trashing the cameras. Perhaps its time to try buying one again...

Would anchoring to the stump of the fir be better then going for the horizontal point. Ill need a heck of a drill bit to keep the rod in line with the cable mind you.

I will read up on dynamic cables again; they seem to get a mixed review hear every time I read about them. The biggest knock against them for me is I can not just go buy some like I can hardware.

 

[jomoco]

I have successfully guyed some very big Torrey pines leaning out over Torrey Pines Blvd here in La Jolla CA.

I had a backhoe dig a few strategically placed 6X6 foot holes about 30 feet from the leaning tree, then placed huge oversized galvinized eyebolts at the correct angles in the holes as the concrete was poured in them and allowed to harden. These holes were then covered with a foot of topsoil so when completed all that was visible was two 7/16th galvinized cables emerging from the lawn and going up into the tree in a triangulating fashion.

That was about 15-16 years ago and the trees are still there towering out over Torrey Pines Blvd and doing just fine, though I'm sure that the landscaper cusses me everytime he has to mow around the cable casements even though I placed rubber hoses on the cables at ground level to aid visibility and mitigate inadvertent damage to people or cables contacting one another.

Worked well for me, the client, and the trees!

jomoco

 

[Mitchell]

thanks jomoco

If I can get a long enough drill bit I think I will secure the tree to the base of the fir. Which should in effect be the same as anchoring the tree to a hard point in the ground as you did. This should solve the problems with the cable snapping tight in wind.
Did you add turn buckles or is there any need?

 

[jomoco]

If I can get a long enough drill bit I think I will secure the tree to the base of the fir. Which should in effect be the same as anchoring the tree to a hard point in the ground as you did. This should solve the problems with the cable snapping tight in wind.
Did you add turn buckles or is there any need?

Turnbuckles would in my opinion be an extraneous weak point in the system.

Tensioning the cable properly can be done at either of the drop forged galvinized eyebolts.

Pictures of the trees in question would be very helpful in providing you with sound professional advice on an optimum cabling configuration.

jomoco

 

[elmnut]

Sherrill has a long bit available, 4-5' I think, 100.00 or so.

 

[2FatGuys]

Most "big box home repair" stores have big bit in the electrical department. It's pretty common to find 3', 4', and 6' bits, as well as extensions. You can also find flexible shaft bits in the same area.

 

[BC WetCoast]

That must be a gorgeous Garry Oak. I personally would be reluctant in tying it back to the fir. Not that it would pull the fir over (unless it had root problems) but any kind of snap in the cable will send vibrations up the tree possibly damaging the top with a whipping action. (When I was timber cruising, and measuring tree heights, hitting the trunk of a 150' Douglas fir or hemlock with the back of an axe would cause the top to vibrate allowing us to make sure we were sighting on the right top). These would be different vibrations and harmonics than what the tree would experience from wind.

Personally, I would use ground anchors and tip back significantly.

 

[Mitchell]

humph

That must be a gorgeous Garry Oak. I personally would be reluctant in tying it back to the fir. Not that it would pull the fir over (unless it had root problems) but any kind of snap in the cable will send vibrations up the tree possibly damaging the top with a whipping action. (When I was timber cruising, and measuring tree heights, hitting the trunk of a 150' Douglas fir or hemlock with the back of an axe would cause the top to vibrate allowing us to make sure we were sighting on the right top). These would be different vibrations and harmonics than what the tree would experience from wind.

Personally, I would use ground anchors and tip back significantly.

As I wont be in that area for awhile, I won't get pics until the end of the week.
My intuition tells me that anchoring low in the fir would not cause much if any vibrations except in the few big blows we get; not arguing just trying to learn... Also, in the event of vibrations do go up the fir periodically or [regularly] would they even be a problem? Trees move all the time and theoretically the fir should stiffen itself up to accommodate new forces [movement]at the tip?
I do not think I can talk the fellow into the expense of digging a pit and filling it with concrete; he wanted to cut the oak down.

I have had trouble finding extension bits for regular old ships augers. dewalt and other tool manufactures do not seem to offer them at least locally. Of course the help at the home depos' etc is shockingly incompetent. I have ordered some from Milwaukee tools that look like they should work.

 

[2FatGuys]

Try Lowes. Go to the electrical aisle. They have "long bits" standing in a pvc pipe attached to the racks. I've seen this in EVERY Lowes store I've visited.

 

[BC WetCoast]

Try Lowes. Go to the electrical aisle. They have "long bits" standing in a pvc pipe attached to the racks. I've seen this in EVERY Lowes store I've visited.

No Lowes in Canada

 

[treeseer]

I got my bits from Sherrill's but maybe someone out west has em too.

"I was also going to reduce some tip weight and remove a few of the big 30 foot branches over the house. "

Uuhhh, you are talking about removing 30' branches from an old tree? Put the saw down please and study pruning before you cut. 10% off an old tree like that might starve and kill it. Big wounds on the trunk WILL rot to the heart of the tree.:censored: :censored:

 

[clearance]

As I wont be in that area for awhile, I won't get pics until the end of the week.
My intuition tells me that anchoring low in the fir would not cause much if any vibrations except in the few big blows we get; not arguing just trying to learn... Also, in the event of vibrations do go up the fir periodically or [regularly] would they even be a problem? Trees move all the time and theoretically the fir should stiffen itself up to accommodate new forces [movement]at the tip?
I do not think I can talk the fellow into the expense of digging a pit and filling it with concrete; he wanted to cut the oak down.

I have had trouble finding extension bits for regular old ships augers. dewalt and other tool manufactures do not seem to offer them at least locally. Of course the help at the home depos' etc is shockingly incompetent. I have ordered some from Milwaukee tools that look like they should work.

A good welder can add a 1/2" steel rod to the end of any drill bit, I have used homemade bits like this when I worked on wood boats a while back. About the tree, of course I would saw it down, but I'm just a utility hack, a cable bolted way down low on the fir should work. Why not?

 

[Mitchell]

Untill I get a picture...

Uuhhh, you are talking about removing 30' branches from an old tree? Put the saw down please and study pruning before you cut. 10% off an old tree like that might starve and kill it. Big wounds on the trunk WILL rot to the heart of the tree.:censored: :censored:

Ill describe the tree.
First off treeseer I have studied pruning; enough not to get me into to much trouble anyways. Enough that I recognize when I need a second opinion; thus the post in arbo 101 labeled opinions. besides I am not just trying to solve a pruning problem but trying to find a solution to saving a decent tree. Perhaps you missed the part where I said I was called to do a removal. If I was not interested in tree preservation that oak would be firewood.

the tree has ALL its weight curling toward and over the the house. no branches counterbalance in the other direction. There looks to be indications of horizontal cracks in at least 2 of the big branches. It has shed a medium branch already. two oaks across the street wind threw last winter.
The guy has a pretty solid case for removal [the municipal arborists have agreed to its removal]
I suppose one could cable all the suspect branches back... I doubt I can sell that job to the HO but perhaps.
I still see general tip reduction and removal of the 2 large branches [out of apx 10 large branches] with guying back to the fir as the job that I can sell.

Treeseer are you recommending removal if thats the best I can muster?

 

[Mitchell]

A good welder can add a 1/2" steel rod to the end of any drill bit, I have used homemade bits like this when I worked on wood boats a while back. About the tree, of course I would saw it down, but I'm just a utility hack, a cable bolted way down low on the fir should work. Why not?

Is it difficult to get them to weld and drill true? I have traded some tree work for futures in welding, I think I might cash it in. I like the idea of extension better as they would be easier to store and replace however.

 

[treeseer]

why not reduce instead of remove the long branches. reshape the tree in a more natural fashion.

 

[clearance]

Is it difficult to get them to weld and drill true? I have traded some tree work for futures in welding, I think I might cash it in. I like the idea of extension better as they would be easier to store and replace however.

Yes it is, like I said, a good welder.