Nathan Wreyford
ArboristSite Operative
Patient secured upright
OSHA demands chaps in trees,portlandOR
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Nathan Wreyford
ArboristSite Operative
Patient safely on ground
There was an instructor in the tree also to make sure nobody did anything too stupid.
There was an instructor in the tree also to make sure nobody did anything too stupid.
Burnham
ArboristSite Operative
Tom--We use cable core whenever we are on spurs, or whenever we use any cutting tool, be it handsaw, chainsaw, girdling blade, or even just a knife. The theory behind the use with spurs is to remove the possibility of seriously damaging the lanyard as it's tail hangs down beside your foot.
Nate--From what I hear, we are one of the few US organizations that practice aerial rescue with live patients. And Tom, we do not use a second belay system for this. However, we do place an instructor close by in the tree to oversee everything, and we belay the descent line from the ground. In over thirty years of doing this we have never had an incident where either the rescuer or the rescuee had their safety compromised. But never get complacent...
Gentlemen--For what it's worth, I can report that Oregon OSHA recognizes that their rules need review and have approached the USFS to assist in updating them. This action in part resulted from the falling fatality of a private contractor working a BLM climbing contract, and a near fatal fall by another contractor working a FS climbing contract, both last year. I have been asked to join a group of "stakeholders" representing the industry, and will do my best to give input that reflects a realistic approach to safe tree climbing/working operations. Wish me luck.
Nate--From what I hear, we are one of the few US organizations that practice aerial rescue with live patients. And Tom, we do not use a second belay system for this. However, we do place an instructor close by in the tree to oversee everything, and we belay the descent line from the ground. In over thirty years of doing this we have never had an incident where either the rescuer or the rescuee had their safety compromised. But never get complacent...
Gentlemen--For what it's worth, I can report that Oregon OSHA recognizes that their rules need review and have approached the USFS to assist in updating them. This action in part resulted from the falling fatality of a private contractor working a BLM climbing contract, and a near fatal fall by another contractor working a FS climbing contract, both last year. I have been asked to join a group of "stakeholders" representing the industry, and will do my best to give input that reflects a realistic approach to safe tree climbing/working operations. Wish me luck.
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NickfromWI
Addicted to ArboristSite
Why is the patient allowed to tend their own hitch? If they could do that, couldn't they just rescue themselves?
I know it's not that easy....what are the other things to consider here?
love
nick
I know it's not that easy....what are the other things to consider here?
love
nick
Nathan Wreyford
ArboristSite Operative
We would try to make it more realistic but couldn't find volunteers that would let us cut them with an ms200 and then knock them unconscious.
Lovey, it is practice, not a real situation. Consider it an invisible arm. We were taught to disconnect the patient's system after loading them onto our system. They couldn't find anyone who would insure them if they allowed the 2nd system to be disconnected.
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NickfromWI
Addicted to ArboristSite
But why let the patient tend their own hitch? Why not make the rescuer do it...that'd be more realistic.
love
nick
love
nick
resuce
when i learnt o climb we had to tend both hitches, in the their rope is damaged scenario we had to attach them to us, release the tension on the rope and then remove their hitch from their rope (pretend that it was cut) and then descend with both of us on one rope.....and one hitch.....bloody scary when you have to watch what someone is doing and tell them.....no dont do that......
fun.....i reckon everyone should do areial rescue....the tree climbers companion should have it as well
in my test i was hanging and the examinber shouted up, what have you done....i replied with ehhhh, cut my leg off.....he said well if you have cut your leg off yopu would be screaming so scream.....i screamed as the rescuer footlocked up my rope(srt style on a prussic, for what its worth then descended us both on the same rope, tending my hitch and his ......
and i was screaming all the way through it
jamie
when i learnt o climb we had to tend both hitches, in the their rope is damaged scenario we had to attach them to us, release the tension on the rope and then remove their hitch from their rope (pretend that it was cut) and then descend with both of us on one rope.....and one hitch.....bloody scary when you have to watch what someone is doing and tell them.....no dont do that......
fun.....i reckon everyone should do areial rescue....the tree climbers companion should have it as well
in my test i was hanging and the examinber shouted up, what have you done....i replied with ehhhh, cut my leg off.....he said well if you have cut your leg off yopu would be screaming so scream.....i screamed as the rescuer footlocked up my rope(srt style on a prussic, for what its worth then descended us both on the same rope, tending my hitch and his ......
and i was screaming all the way through it
jamie
Nathan Wreyford
ArboristSite Operative
Lovey, read the above, we were taught to disconnect their system AFTER securing them into our system.
More realistic would be disconnecting their system but insurance wouldn't allow it.
I feel like I am repeating myself
Nathan Wreyford
ArboristSite Operative
Our senarios took into account that their system was unavailable to get them to the ground. Mainly because they wanted to drill more for worst case senario. If you could use their hitch, then all you need to do it get to them and lower them on their own hitch.
We could not do 2 people on one hitch. With more advanced hitches, like vt, distel, etc - they can bind with the load of two. We both came down on an 8 with the hitch pulled loose, but as a back up.
We could not do 2 people on one hitch. With more advanced hitches, like vt, distel, etc - they can bind with the load of two. We both came down on an 8 with the hitch pulled loose, but as a back up.
Burnham, Good luck. If there are any public meetings on the subject, I'll try to make it.
General Tree Service in Portland did live rescues when I worked there. Quarterly was the goal. Asplundh crews were required to do live rescues once a month when I worked there, a few years back.
General Tree Service in Portland did live rescues when I worked there. Quarterly was the goal. Asplundh crews were required to do live rescues once a month when I worked there, a few years back.
Burnham
ArboristSite Operative
Coydog, OR climber, other Oregon arborists, and the rest of you, too--I have been asked to provide information on current modern climbing practices, equipment, and techniques to OR-OSHA as a member of a "stakeholders" climbing rules advisory commitee. I don't know if the subject of chipper ops will come up, or if my input would be considered, but if the opportunity presents itself, I'd like to share your opinion of why a single operator is not a hazard to himself and others. The bottom line for these people will not be that it take an "extra" person to do the job. There has to be some argument based on changes to machine controls, etc. since the old rule was written to make a good case to change that rule. I have very minimal experience with chippers, so fill me in...solid reasons why one operator is safe.
Any other sore points you Oregon arborists are aware of in OR-OSHA rules, let me hear about them, too.
Any other sore points you Oregon arborists are aware of in OR-OSHA rules, let me hear about them, too.
chippaz
2 guys working the chipper in the eyes of those concerened about Health and Saftey is safer.....if something goes wrong there will be someone nearby who can provide assistance....
maybe try looking at theAFAG (Arboriculture and Forestry Advisory Group) leaflets
Maybe tryTreevolution as well. they act as an advisory body to HSE
we always try to have a couple chipping....having said that we are meant to have a second climber able to resuce the lead climber at a moments notice.....
jamie
2 guys working the chipper in the eyes of those concerened about Health and Saftey is safer.....if something goes wrong there will be someone nearby who can provide assistance....
maybe try looking at theAFAG (Arboriculture and Forestry Advisory Group) leaflets
Maybe tryTreevolution as well. they act as an advisory body to HSE
we always try to have a couple chipping....having said that we are meant to have a second climber able to resuce the lead climber at a moments notice.....
jamie
murphy4trees
Addicted to ArboristSite
Can't help you there...
having two people chipping is a safer way to go... I think a three man crew is safer too... anytime there is a man in the trees. That extra set of eyes can be a life saver.
having two people chipping is a safer way to go... I think a three man crew is safer too... anytime there is a man in the trees. That extra set of eyes can be a life saver.
murphy4trees
Addicted to ArboristSite
My understanding is that OSHA doesn't regulate owner operators.. If you work for yourself thay have no jurisdiction...
Burnham, FWIW Here are the rules I would like to see changed.
4337-002-0308 Portable Power Tools
2) Gasoline-Driven Power Saws
(b) ".....employees shall be supported by their climbing belt or rope and by a safety line to a crotch in the tree higher than the climbers waistline..."
This should be updated to allow for using false crotches. How about tied in twice, but the climber chooses fliplines and/or lifeline. If the climber is working above there lifeline tie in, do they need 2 more tie ins? When I'm chunking out a spar sometimes I like my 2 fliplines slightly below my waist so I'm sure they are out of the way on the backside of the tree.
437-002-0309 Hand Tools
(2) Pruners and Hand Saws
(a) "Pole pruners, pole saws, and other similar tools shall be equipped with wood or nonmetallic poles"
How about modifying this to trees within 10' of any energized lines. I want a Silky polesaw.
(9) Ropes.
(a) "....manilla.....2385 pounds..."
Obvious upgrade
(i) "A handline shall be used for raising or lowering tools..."
Why not be able to use a 6000lb test plus rope to raise hand tools? Requiring a seperate rope seems redundant.
437-002-0310 Work Procedures
(a) "...The climbing rope shall always be used....A safety strap or rope with snaps may be used for additional protection."
What's wrong with a flipline? Tied in is tied in.
(c) "The climbing rope shall be passed around the trunk of the tree as high as possible using branches with a wide crotch."
Should be ammended to allow for false crotches. Also why set a rope at 100' to remove a limb 12' off the ground?
(f) "The climbing line shall be crotched...., and a taut line-hitch tied and checked."
Needs to be updated to allow for other friction hitches and approved mechanical tenders.
(d) " A seperate line shall be attached to limbs which cannot be dropped or are too heavy to be controlled by hand. The line shall be held by workers on the ground end of the rope...."
This doesn't allow for speedlines? Or hard locks, or self lowering.
(5) Felling.
(f) "The opening or height of the notch shall be approximately 2-1/2 inches for each foot in diameter of the tree."
I would guess this was meant to prevent shallow notches leading to barberchairs. This doesn't allow for wide notches.
(6) Chipper equipment and operation.
Equipment Design
(c) Chippers without a mechanical infeed system must have:
(C) "A shut off switch within convenient reach of the worker feeding the chipper."
I hope walking the 3 steps to the side of the chipper is OK. Asplundh tried a kill brake bar on chuck n' ducks, they don't do it aanymore.
Work Practices
(j) The chipper operator must have a coworker in the immediate vicinity when feeding chipper.
Why?
4337-002-0308 Portable Power Tools
2) Gasoline-Driven Power Saws
(b) ".....employees shall be supported by their climbing belt or rope and by a safety line to a crotch in the tree higher than the climbers waistline..."
This should be updated to allow for using false crotches. How about tied in twice, but the climber chooses fliplines and/or lifeline. If the climber is working above there lifeline tie in, do they need 2 more tie ins? When I'm chunking out a spar sometimes I like my 2 fliplines slightly below my waist so I'm sure they are out of the way on the backside of the tree.
437-002-0309 Hand Tools
(2) Pruners and Hand Saws
(a) "Pole pruners, pole saws, and other similar tools shall be equipped with wood or nonmetallic poles"
How about modifying this to trees within 10' of any energized lines. I want a Silky polesaw.
(9) Ropes.
(a) "....manilla.....2385 pounds..."
Obvious upgrade
(i) "A handline shall be used for raising or lowering tools..."
Why not be able to use a 6000lb test plus rope to raise hand tools? Requiring a seperate rope seems redundant.
437-002-0310 Work Procedures
(a) "...The climbing rope shall always be used....A safety strap or rope with snaps may be used for additional protection."
What's wrong with a flipline? Tied in is tied in.
(c) "The climbing rope shall be passed around the trunk of the tree as high as possible using branches with a wide crotch."
Should be ammended to allow for false crotches. Also why set a rope at 100' to remove a limb 12' off the ground?
(f) "The climbing line shall be crotched...., and a taut line-hitch tied and checked."
Needs to be updated to allow for other friction hitches and approved mechanical tenders.
(d) " A seperate line shall be attached to limbs which cannot be dropped or are too heavy to be controlled by hand. The line shall be held by workers on the ground end of the rope...."
This doesn't allow for speedlines? Or hard locks, or self lowering.
(5) Felling.
(f) "The opening or height of the notch shall be approximately 2-1/2 inches for each foot in diameter of the tree."
I would guess this was meant to prevent shallow notches leading to barberchairs. This doesn't allow for wide notches.
(6) Chipper equipment and operation.
Equipment Design
(c) Chippers without a mechanical infeed system must have:
(C) "A shut off switch within convenient reach of the worker feeding the chipper."
I hope walking the 3 steps to the side of the chipper is OK. Asplundh tried a kill brake bar on chuck n' ducks, they don't do it aanymore.
Work Practices
(j) The chipper operator must have a coworker in the immediate vicinity when feeding chipper.
Why?
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