Outdoor boiler smoking up the neighborhood

[windthrown]

OWB smoke...

I find this argument and all the political flap about it anoying. Particularly as we have a Central Boiler unit here and it smokes far less than any of the anti OWB ads and photos (which seem to be a lot of steam from burning green wood or people burning tires in them or something). When the damper is closed the CB hardly puts out any smoke at all. When the damper is open, it smokes far less than our fancy new indoor EPA certified outside-air supply fireplace complete with all sorst of fancy stickers and labels. BTW: The EPA fireplace is virtually USELESS for heating. It is for asthetics only...

I do not see how the particulate emissions matter whan the CB is far more efficient in heating our house. I tried to heat our house with the fireplace alone last year. I burned 4 times as much wood and it still did not heat the house as well as the boiler with the hydronic floor circulation system. So how is 4x the wood burned in the EPA fireplace better than 1/4 the wood in a OWB?

Oh, howelling, but but but the OWB is as evil as Saddam Hussain it seems...

 

[Rspike]

I find this argument and all the political flap about it anoying. Particularly as we have a Central Boiler unit here and it smokes far less than any of the anti OWB ads and photos (which seem to be a lot of steam from burning green wood or people burning tires in them or something). When the damper is closed the CB hardly puts out any smoke at all. When the damper is open, it smokes far less than our fancy new indoor EPA certified outside-air supply fireplace complete with all sorst of fancy stickers and labels. BTW: The EPA fireplace is virtually USELESS for heating. It is for asthetics only...

I do not see how the particulate emissions matter whan the CB is far more efficient in heating our house. I tried to heat our house with the fireplace alone last year. I burned 4 times as much wood and it still did not heat the house as well as the boiler with the hydronic floor circulation system. So how is 4x the wood burned in the EPA fireplace better than 1/4 the wood in a OWB?

Oh, howelling, but but but the OWB is as evil as Saddam Hussain it seems...

Dont think any body was talking about a "fire place" ? I would agree with you tho that a fire places is just that ... for aesthetics only. Throw you input in .......... that what a forum is all about. I dont think it needs to be an "argument" just every body's point of view and input. I dont go out of my way to break down the doors on a friendly outdoor wood boiler threads and say there no good ....... but when a thread come up for debate than thats what were here for. If you have any more info or input .....throw er in .

 

[SmokinDodge]

Rspike what kind of stove is it you have?

 

[Rspike]

Rspike what kind of stove is it you have?

My stove is a Pacific Energy Summit and heat my 1800sf home 100% with wood. < also see post #19 for inside stove pic's > 4 cords or less a year . 60% stock being elm and elm being the lowest of my hard woods . 1 cup of ash from the chimney cleanout this past year. Here are the specs listed. Pacific Energy Summit . “Classic” ~Porcelain Enamel “Sunset Red” freestanding 97,000 max BTU* Heating Capacity up to 3000 sq.ft. * 3.0 cf. fire box * Efficiency 73% * Emmissions 3.5 gm/hr. * Non-cat Stainless steel secondary burn chamber * EBT Technology (extended burn technology) * Hard wood burn times 8-12 hours * 1/4” steel fire box - 3/8” steel top plate * Front to back loading * Lifetime Warranty all but fire bricks-air inlet cover ** Ash pan option ** Door/Legs/Trivet color option: Black *

<img src="http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/Roospike/FOURM/P.jpg"> <img src="http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97/Roospike/FOURM/PIC00005.jpg">

 

[Rspike]

http://chimneysweeponline.com/pacsumc.htm “Classic” ~Porcelain Enamel http://chimneysweeponline.com/pacsumm.htm standard http://chimneysweeponline.com/pacsumin.htm insert

 

[cord arrow]

golly, i think i may need to own this one.

 

[MS-310]

Mr I know all about outdoor wood stoves and dont have one,


When you read these pages of info on the EPA wanting to ban OWB, first think to your self and wounder If burning a fuel oil is better then the wood, OWB have saved alot of people money and saved there homes from getting burnt down from a fire "stove" like yours, god I could go on for ever on the safety of OWB and you think they dont have a no secondary combustion burning chamber area look at a CB it has one woodmaster, timberwolf, most have one.
"""""
#1 no secondary combustion burning chamber #2 they shut down and idle and smoke and start back up and smoke . #3 the water on the out side of the fire box cools down the fire box and causes the combustion to cool and makes the wood smoke because its not getting hot enough to ignite the emissions (smoke). #4 pipe stacks are not tall enough. ect...ect..."""""

I think you should really look at a OWB and see it work then look at Pic's of people burning stuff they should not. Put some good wood in the stove and see if it does produce 83.9 grams per hour, No it does not.

For what Idea do you have for the "#4 pipe stacks are not tall enough"
what does this have to do with the idea they "smoke to much".
Plus Im sorry if im being to rude but before you talk so much about some thing you really havnt seen in person and owned one Please do not inform people of it.

If you would like to talk to some "really smart" people on wood stoves please give me a call and I will get you some numbers to CB, Timberwolf and a rep I know.
(269-838-2011) Jack

Does your stove have a steal flue or a clay flue???
Thanks for the thread this is a good one
Jack

 

[Butch(OH)]

I find this argument and all the political flap about it anoying. Particularly as we have a Central Boiler unit here and it smokes far less than any of the anti OWB ads and photos (which seem to be a lot of steam from burning green wood or people burning tires in them or something). When the damper is closed the CB hardly puts out any smoke at all. When the damper is open, it smokes far less than our fancy new indoor EPA certified outside-air supply fireplace complete with all sorst of fancy stickers and labels. BTW: The EPA fireplace is virtually USELESS for heating. It is for asthetics only...

I do not see how the particulate emissions matter whan the CB is far more efficient in heating our house. I tried to heat our house with the fireplace alone last year. I burned 4 times as much wood and it still did not heat the house as well as the boiler with the hydronic floor circulation system. So how is 4x the wood burned in the EPA fireplace better than 1/4 the wood in a OWB?

Oh, howelling, but but but the OWB is as evil as Saddam Hussain it seems...

I find the arguements anoying also and usualy leave them alone but when my integrity is guestioned I get defensive, apologies offered. Fact is that you can search Cyber space for woodboiler discussions and whenever the smoke issue comes up you will see the most famous outdoor boilers in the world, the same pictures posted here. I don't trust the government when it come to things like this and I am not going to trust pictures or data taken from their websites to be strictly on the up and up nor do I trust their data. Spike asked would the EPA rig pictures and or data to make a point? They have been caught doing worse, sorry again. On one site that promotes regulation of boilers the front page story says that one of them dreaded outdoor boiler owners smokes up an entire neighborhood because the fool burns trash, tires, garbage etc. As one wise person just posted on this thread, why would you regulate boilers because some idiot is burning garbage?? that is illegal even out here in hickville USA. regulate the idiots, duh. There are web pages by the boiler people that show the most quoted anti boiler data to be false and misleading, I don't have a link handy or I would post it. Do I trust the boiler people to put out concise info, Not on your life. My statements about boilers, how much fuel mine uses and smoke comes from what I see with my eye, smell with my nose and how bad my back aches from loading it, not cyber space nor my "friends" at the EPA. My pictures are from my back yard not a web site. But I dont offer them as gospel, my invitation to Spike is open to anyone who has concerns with smoke and fuel usage. Your welcome to come watch it and load it yourself and save my old back a little pain in the process, LOL. My "agenda" is simply to be sure that the reality of what is going on in my backyard is represented on this forum and that I will do as long as I am allowed to do so.

again apologies offered to those offended by my long rant,

 

[windthrown]

Our OWB and the beefs I have against them...

Hmmm, this graphic seems appropriate for this thread...

:deadhorse:

My beef with all this flap over OWBs here and over on Mother Earth News and other places that I have posted recently are first with the people with inside wood stoves that think that they are the end all to end all and outdoor boilers are the root of all evil. I believe that both have their place in the right location and with a design that works using them. However, in this house a wood stove (EPA or otherwise) would not be any more effective than the EPA fireplace that we have. There is no way for the heat to circulate from the stove to the rest of the house. We have a single level ranch house. I also think that many stoves are a potential fire hazard and most are not efficient, and many around here smoke up the neighborhood as much as a burning slash pile. Also, you have to lug a lot of wood indoors to burn in them (including the bugs, water and bark and all).

But these are minor issues compared to my real beef. My real beef is the :censored: pile of disinformation excriment posted on these types of web sites (three typical examples, all in the northeast):

http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/20...ch="central boiler new england outdoor wood "

http://www.vtwoodsmoke.org/

...and the worst of the worst in handed-down disinformation photos shared by the state of Wisconsin and posted by NESCAUM:

http://www.nescaum.org/documents/assessment-of-outdoor-wood-fired-boilers

It is amusing that people are more than happy to plug in their electric or gas heaters and think nothing of the pollution caused by generating electricity in coal or oil fired plants, or the waste generated by nuclear power plants, or the global and political problems with drilling, refining and transporting oil and natural gas. Oh, but point at wood bunring and the people owning outdoor boilers them as the root of all evil.

Yes, in urban environments wood boilers and even fireplaces are not appropriate unless they burn completely clean like in the case of the Greenwood units from Seattle, WA. If they made an outside boiler I would have one. Out in remote places like where we live outdoor wood boilers are safe, very effective, pay for themselves, and save the planet's resources and lower greenhouse gasses all at the same time. We have gobs of firewood here that would otheriwse just rot. Transportation is all of 100-200 yards. We save the planet 2.5 MWhr a month in electricity generated. And... here are photos of our wood boiler burning right now, on site. This is the giant roiling gobs of smoke that come from the unit on a typical day. The first photo is just after the damper has opened. The second is the typical smoke produced 90% of the time when the damper is closed, like it is right now.

-Scott
Yoncalla, OR

 

[bwalker]

Here are a few pics of my boiler in action.

On cycle after a fill.

Off cycle.

On cycle.

A inside stove isnt a option for me as I dont want the mess, smell/smoke, and fire risk. If they made a clean boiler I would buy one of them too, but untill then I have been very happy with mine.
FWIW I do not live in the city and my nearest neighbor is several hundred yards away through the woods. He has a boiler as well.

 

[bwalker]

I forgot to add that I burn moslty green wood.

 

[windthrown]

Yep...

Your's looks like it smokes about as much as mine does. Maybe when it is colder the steam condenses more and makes them 'look' smokier?

Or... you don't suppose that they wood fake the smoke photos by burning oil or tires or something in there to make it a political stink, do you? :hmm3grin2orange:

-Scott
Yoncalla, OR

 

[laynes69]

Hey Rspike, does the secondary air come in through the piece of channel in between the firebricks? Then it goes into the hollow baffle and out the holes?
Not a real complicated setup, Maybe I could fabricate one for my wood furnace.

 

[JeffHK454]

Well I have one of the people taking part in the anti-outdoor boiler conspiracy living across the valley from me then!

That thing smokes like a mother about 75% of the time and I can tell you it's wood smoke, I do know when it's in heat mode as the smoke drops off considerably.

This summer he ran lines to his paint shop and plans to heat his business with the same unit. From what he's told me if you work these units and they don't sit in "smolder" mode they are good heat providers with good efficiency.

JH

 

[bwalker]

Your's looks like it smokes about as much as mine does. Maybe when it is colder the steam condenses more and makes them 'look' smokier?

The pics I posted where taking when the outside temp was around -5 degrees.

This summer he ran lines to his paint shop and plans to heat his business with the same unit. From what he's told me if you work these units and they don't sit in "smolder" mode they are good heat providers with good efficiency.

I think sizing and cheap designs have a huge influeance on smoke output. Mineis lined with fire brick and its sized with very little spare capacity.

 

[laynes69]

My buddy installed one right in his back yard in the middle of a small village. Just a small lot. He never has any problems with smoking out the neighbors. He burns small fires and doesnt load it as full as he can. This way it cycles often. Its a CB and he uses seasoned wood. He loves it, but it loves the wood. Thats the one thing that has drove me away was the wood consumption. Someday when the technology (Efficiency) Improves, I may get one. I really want the indoor wood furnaces to go epa approved. I thought I saw one in an ad, but never seen it again. I talked to woodmaster and they said my wood consumption would double.

 

[daddieslilgirl]

outdoor wood stove

well i have to say its been an interesting conversation! when i fill up my dads it smokes like those pictures for maybe 5-10 minutes, no longer! but we dont burn dead animals, household waste, plastic (which will burn a hole in the sides of the furnace) or anything like that! yes occasionally we do get a stinky piece of wood. almost everyone on my road has one or has a woodstove. woodstoves have been around forever! my little one that i heat my trailer with smokes more than 3 of the boilers! they already started the bans around here. they can ban all they want..... when they start paying my kero/fuel bill then they can have something to gripe about! until then people should mind their business instead of everyone elses! its always something. id like to know if half of the gripers have a fireplace in their house or burn wood at christmas time? then tell me what the difference is! oh boy dont get me started!

 

[windthrown]

Firewood burning bans... and the bay area

There have been bans and laws going into effect all over on firewood burning. In the SF bay area there has been a ban on building houses with wood burning fireplaces for a long time now. Only older houses with pre-existing fireplaces can burn firewood. Legally that is... no new houses can have fireplaces because of all the smoke in the Silicon Valley in the winter time. Never mind installing an outdoor wood boiler there...

Out here in the sticks, we can burn all we want, except no fires outside and no slash burning during fire season. Actually, here the problem smoke all comes from them burning logging slash piles (they have to by law) in the spring and fall, or from forest fires in summer months.