Outdoor Wood Boiler Disaster
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The latest news is that there isn't much to say.
It's tough finding an attorney willing and/or able to pursue an HVAC event such as mine. For now, I've stopped looking and I'm trying a different course which is to involve Wisconsin's chief boiler inspector. The following is part of a letter I sent.
_____
I'm writing because your name appeared as a National Board of pressure vessel inspectors for Wisconsin and you are the chief state inpector. I have questions about a manufacturer's product.
Royall Manufacturing, Inc., 301 2nd Street, Elroy, Wisconsin 53929, states the following about the boilers they produce: "The boilers are also inspected on-site by the National Board of Boiler and Pressure Vessel Inspectors."
This statement refers to their outdoor wood-fired boilers which leads me to the following questions:
Is their product inspected on-site?
What code(s) are applicable?
Since their product is wood-fired, the aquastat cannot shut off the fuel supply when the water reaches its upper set point as it would in gas/oil fired units. Instead, the aquastat turns off a draft blower while it is UNABLE to control a manually set draft opening. This circumstance appears to be an uncontrolled Btu input which is contrary to the design of the installed Conbraco 10-407, 30psi pressure type relief valve. Also, the relief valve is installed horizontally, contrary to the mandatory vertical installation. Are these discrepancies or are they outside the code?
Is a manually operated draft for wood-fired boilers within the code? And, if this circumstance is not specified by code, should it be to prevent injury and death?
I'll see what he has to say and then proceed -- which way, I don't know, but this heating season is almost over so there is time enough to not be hasty. Perhaps they might add a few lines to the code for OWB safety. I don't want them to go after the smoke thing, though. I Hope I don't open a can of worms but I don't think they're too worried since the last record I can find of OWBs in the state's records is from 2004 and that was a suggestion to invite an industry spokesperson to one of the meetings. I wonder who that was?
The latest news is that there isn't much to say.
It's tough finding an attorney willing and/or able to pursue an HVAC event such as mine. For now, I've stopped looking and I'm trying a different course which is to involve Wisconsin's chief boiler inspector. The following is part of a letter I sent.
_____
I'm writing because your name appeared as a National Board of pressure vessel inspectors for Wisconsin and you are the chief state inpector. I have questions about a manufacturer's product.
Royall Manufacturing, Inc., 301 2nd Street, Elroy, Wisconsin 53929, states the following about the boilers they produce: "The boilers are also inspected on-site by the National Board of Boiler and Pressure Vessel Inspectors."
This statement refers to their outdoor wood-fired boilers which leads me to the following questions:
Is their product inspected on-site?
What code(s) are applicable?
Since their product is wood-fired, the aquastat cannot shut off the fuel supply when the water reaches its upper set point as it would in gas/oil fired units. Instead, the aquastat turns off a draft blower while it is UNABLE to control a manually set draft opening. This circumstance appears to be an uncontrolled Btu input which is contrary to the design of the installed Conbraco 10-407, 30psi pressure type relief valve. Also, the relief valve is installed horizontally, contrary to the mandatory vertical installation. Are these discrepancies or are they outside the code?
Is a manually operated draft for wood-fired boilers within the code? And, if this circumstance is not specified by code, should it be to prevent injury and death?
I'll see what he has to say and then proceed -- which way, I don't know, but this heating season is almost over so there is time enough to not be hasty. Perhaps they might add a few lines to the code for OWB safety. I don't want them to go after the smoke thing, though. I Hope I don't open a can of worms but I don't think they're too worried since the last record I can find of OWBs in the state's records is from 2004 and that was a suggestion to invite an industry spokesperson to one of the meetings. I wonder who that was?
stonykill
ArboristSite Guru
the other problem is the homeowner playing engineer constantly changing settings on the aqua stat and the damper every time the wind direction and temperature changes. I still have a hard time believing the post, simply from the standpoint that he stated he fired the boiler at 10 pm. You don't fire a boiler at night, you fire it at the beginning of the heating season.
ghitch75
ArboristSite Guru
he means loading it for the night..as far as "firing"...i think?
stonykill
ArboristSite Guru
I've brought this up several times, he fails to answer it
sawsong
ArboristSite Member
back the truck up!, he replied the first time you brought it up. on page 2
lets not be getting up on our high horses or anything :deadhorse:
stonykill
ArboristSite Guru
my mistake I'm only human. I still don't believe him. He came here stating facts, with out photos to back it up. He didn't ask for help as far as I saw, simply stated to paraphrase, my boiler blew up, I'm suing. AS was nice enough to offer help. I just don't buy it, thats all.
Especially for mr. doubting Stonykill's whining benefit, I uploaded the photos to this address:
randerson450.photosite.com
Furthermore, Mr. Stonykill, if you can't believe I fiddled with the aquastat and the controls, then you didn't read the explanation for why I did it. Maybe I didn't explain the bottom line that most have figured out: When it was very cold, I turned the aquastat up to 190 (well within safety) to heat my house. When it got warmer, I turned it back to 180 because that's all I needed. I've fiddled with the draft opening (that has a wingnut -- think about that) so the fire would burn without making too much creosote while still not overfiring.
You've speed-read my posts and formed judgments with limited comprehension, finding fault with me while not considering I was duped by a manufacturer who made light of his responsibilities. Can I be so bold to ask, "Did you wake up one day knowing how to make furniture or did it take a little time? And when you learned to do something right, did you take it upon yourself to berate all those who didn't do it your way? When your wife and children don't live up to your expectations, do you reveal your disappointment with them? Do you allow others to learn by their mistakes without adding insult?
Just some off-topic rhetoric.
randerson450.photosite.com
Furthermore, Mr. Stonykill, if you can't believe I fiddled with the aquastat and the controls, then you didn't read the explanation for why I did it. Maybe I didn't explain the bottom line that most have figured out: When it was very cold, I turned the aquastat up to 190 (well within safety) to heat my house. When it got warmer, I turned it back to 180 because that's all I needed. I've fiddled with the draft opening (that has a wingnut -- think about that) so the fire would burn without making too much creosote while still not overfiring.
You've speed-read my posts and formed judgments with limited comprehension, finding fault with me while not considering I was duped by a manufacturer who made light of his responsibilities. Can I be so bold to ask, "Did you wake up one day knowing how to make furniture or did it take a little time? And when you learned to do something right, did you take it upon yourself to berate all those who didn't do it your way? When your wife and children don't live up to your expectations, do you reveal your disappointment with them? Do you allow others to learn by their mistakes without adding insult?
Just some off-topic rhetoric.
outona limb
ArboristSite Lurker
BUY A TIMBERWOLF owb, I have had mine for 4 years now with no problems. they are a open system with a natural draft damper which is controled by a aquastat. Just load up the wood and walk away for 12-18 hours then repeat also there stoves are UL listed and backed up by a awsome warrenty where any problems are corrected quickly... just had to through in my 2 cents
stonykill
ArboristSite Guru
its called an opinion. I haven't checked websters, but I define an opinion as a conclusion one comes to based on the facts as they are presented to him or her. Now maybe websters defines opinion as take everything that you read on the internet as fact without question, someone took the time to type it so it must be true.
Last I checked we still had the right to an opinion. Maybe that right was taken away and I missed the memo. Its possible as I have been building my portable weather station 10 feet from my owb, so I can better monitor the conditions. I have to keep in mind that the weather at the boiler may be different 10 feet away, so I will make adjustments based of best guesses.
stonykill
ArboristSite Guru
As for the furniture...I was basically raised by my grandfather, who was a cabinet maker...just one of his many talents. So I have been around furniture building my whole life.
As for my learning curve on my owb. Sure there was a learning curve. What wood burned the longest, what wood to use if I fell funny and nearly burned out, how to get it going fast. When I could use pine, that a local firewood guy brings me by the truckload for free, or when it was best to just use dry hardwood. My learning curve did not include a course in meteorology to adjust my stove. I'm not a weather guesser, and don't need to be to run my owb efficiently.
As for my learning curve on my owb. Sure there was a learning curve. What wood burned the longest, what wood to use if I fell funny and nearly burned out, how to get it going fast. When I could use pine, that a local firewood guy brings me by the truckload for free, or when it was best to just use dry hardwood. My learning curve did not include a course in meteorology to adjust my stove. I'm not a weather guesser, and don't need to be to run my owb efficiently.
Husky137
Addicted to ArboristSite
Poor Stonykill, my lad, I fear you give BB too much credit. I don't think he has a hidden agenda, I don't think he is a liar, clueless and out of his depth, now that is a different story.
stonykill
ArboristSite Guru
I'll agree with thatPoor Stonykill, my lad, I fear you give BB too much credit. I don't think he has a hidden agenda, I don't think he is a liar, clueless and out of his depth, now that is a different story.
looking at those pics ... that is an odd setup with the blower .
my blower has a fan and a solanoid that cuts airflow with no leakes.
I dont know how it never boiled over the first time you lit it up.
do you have a nuber for your sales guy cause i would like to hear what he says .
my blower has a fan and a solanoid that cuts airflow with no leakes.
I dont know how it never boiled over the first time you lit it up.
do you have a nuber for your sales guy cause i would like to hear what he says .
stonykill
ArboristSite Guru
I look at the blower set up and think 1960's chevy blower motor. I can't believe someone would look at this set up and even think it was a good idea. I looked at a lot of boilers before I bought mine, and this blower set up is the cheesiest I have seen. Your right, it should have overheated right away. Furthermore the installer should have looked at this and realized the danger. Also any one who looked at it never should have purchased it.
stonykill
ArboristSite Guru
I really think you are over thinking the operation of your boiler. You say and I quote..."When it was very cold, I turned the aqua-stat up to 190 (well within safety) to heat my house. When it got warmer, I turned it back to 180 because that's all I needed. I've fiddled with the draft opening"
I have this hi tech device installed in my home that you may have heard of. Its called a thermostat. When its cold out, I turn it up. When its warmer out I turn it down. Its a marvel of modern science really. An amazing device. I turn it up, and it tells the stove to kick on the blower...build a bigger fire. Then when the house is warm it tells the blower on the door of the stove to shut off and have the fire go dormant. Like I said its an amazing hi tech device.
I have this hi tech device installed in my home that you may have heard of. Its called a thermostat. When its cold out, I turn it up. When its warmer out I turn it down. Its a marvel of modern science really. An amazing device. I turn it up, and it tells the stove to kick on the blower...build a bigger fire. Then when the house is warm it tells the blower on the door of the stove to shut off and have the fire go dormant. Like I said its an amazing hi tech device.
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