Outdoor Wood Boiler Disaster

[Husky137]

Mine doesn't even use a blower, just natural draft. A blower was an option but the dealer (who runs an OWB) and the plumber who intalled my unit(and runs an OWB) said all the forced draft would do in the long run is burn more wood.

 

[BadgerBob]

Ignorance Ain't Bliss

I'll admit I should have learned much more about boilers before I trusted my "licensed" installer and the manufacturer but I'm learning a lot now.
Why did this happen? I've read many opinions -- including those speaking of my ignorance -- which may be correct, but I'd prefer to believe my situation was supposed to happen so that good can come of it. Providence works that way.

Wisconsin's chief boiler inspector wants me to appear at the next state meeting to describe the situation, propose code safety changes and make recommendations to address the closed system boiler/pex problem. Before that, I will graciously invite the manufacturer to join in the solution rather than having the solution imposed upon them. Will the manufacturer be interested? Their certification expires on 11/08; if it is not renewed, they must stop making boilers. So, if they do not incorporate an automatically controlled draft by then, their days of boilermaking are numbered.

As part of the solution, I invited the relief valve manufacturer to develop a temperature/pressure solution that works with OWBs. Presently, they do not have a T&P valve with a desired max temperature of 200 degrees F.

This is all a big pain but, in the end, if my inconvenience saves lives, it is all worth it and perhaps my ignorance of boilers was by design.


And the fusible plug? It's worthy of consideration as an additional relief device; perhaps the final defense after draft control and T&P valves. It's something pure without moving parts -- maybe a 210 degree plug would be good.

 

[046]

still are amazed mfg of boiler didn't include a fusible plug somewhere in boiler jacket. this would used as a safety of last resort.

cost of adding would be under $15 for mfg. fusible plug shown above was $6 from HVAC supply.

needless to say if fusible link and/or other pressure let off valve had been in place. your accident in all probability would not happened.

I'll admit I should have learned much more about boilers before I trusted my "licensed" installer and the manufacturer but I'm learning a lot now.
Why did this happen? I've read many opinions -- including those speaking of my ignorance -- which may be correct, but I'd prefer to believe my situation was supposed to happen so that good can come of it. Providence works that way.

Wisconsin's chief boiler inspector wants me to appear at the next state meeting to describe the situation, propose code safety changes and make recommendations to address the closed system boiler/pex problem. Before that, I will graciously invite the manufacturer to join in the solution rather than having the solution imposed upon them. Will the manufacturer be interested? Their certification expires on 11/08; if it is not renewed, they must stop making boilers. So, if they do not incorporate an automatically controlled draft by then, their days of boilermaking are numbered.

As part of the solution, I invited the relief valve manufacturer to develop a temperature/pressure solution that works with OWBs. Presently, they do not have a T&P valve with a desired max temperature of 200 degrees F.

This is all a big pain but, in the end, if my inconvenience saves lives, it is all worth it and perhaps my ignorance of boilers was by design.


And the fusible plug? It's worthy of consideration as an additional relief device; perhaps the final defense after draft control and T&P valves. It's something pure without moving parts -- maybe a 210 degree plug would be good.

 

[ktm250rider]

When I designed printed circuit board connectors, I had to send a complete, fully assembled sample to UL for certification. In addition, I didnt tell UL what to test for. They had a set of parameters that all connectors of a certain current and voltage had to meet. We designed to these parameters.

UL must test the complete assembly. An assembly can consist of non UL rated parts and still pass all the UL tests and have a UL rating. However, just because all parts of an assembly are UL rated does not mean that the assembly is UL rated.

 

[stonykill]

I have to ask...what kind of heating system did badgerbob have before a owb? If it was an oil fired furnace did he constantly adjust the aquastat depending on temperature? If it was electric heat did he hot rod the wiring when it was cold out? I suspect not. All the safety regulations and government safety ratings can't stop those who don't know what they are doing from doing what they do. This goes for the installer as well as the owb owner.

I was in a local hardware store the other day to buy some #20 hose clamps. The store also sells and installs owb's. He was out of #20 clamps. The owner told me he was out because he just did 2 owb installs and used all the hose clamps on the pex tubing! OMG!!! He gets $5000 to install a system and used standard hose clamps on an outdoor wood boiler. Turns out another guy who installs these in the area does the same thing, then wonders why he constantly has problems.

Makes me glad I installed my own, and didn't buy it from these yahoos

 

[046]

assuming these are the standard stainless steel hose clamps you see at all auto parts stores.

what's wrong with using those on a system that will be similar in pressures to a car radiator system.

heck, I've seen std hose clamps hold down AC hoses that's holding 100+ PSI.

now back to the real issue here... which is NO safeties were installed on this enclosed system. this is really strange that a mfg and installer would both miss this mission critical item(s)

I have to ask...what kind of heating system did badgerbob have before a owb? If it was an oil fired furnace did he constantly adjust the aquastat depending on temperature? If it was electric heat did he hot rod the wiring when it was cold out? I suspect not. All the safety regulations and government safety ratings can't stop those who don't know what they are doing from doing what they do. This goes for the installer as well as the owb owner.

I was in a local hardware store the other day to buy some #20 hose clamps. The store also sells and installs owb's. He was out of #20 clamps. The owner told me he was out because he just did 2 owb installs and used all the hose clamps on the pex tubing! OMG!!! He gets $5000 to install a system and used standard hose clamps on an outdoor wood boiler. Turns out another guy who installs these in the area does the same thing, then wonders why he constantly has problems.

Makes me glad I installed my own, and didn't buy it from these yahoos

 

[stonykill]

assuming these are the standard stainless steel hose clamps you see at all auto parts stores.

what's wrong with using those on a system that will be similar in pressures to a car radiator system.

heck, I've seen std hose clamps hold down AC hoses that's holding 100+ PSI.

now back to the real issue here... which is NO safeties were installed on this enclosed system. this is really strange that a mfg and installer would both miss this mission critical item(s)

yes, stainless hose clamps. In all fairness your hose clamp repairs aren't underground. I have a few friends who install radiant heat for a living. When I told them of hose clamps on pex tubing, they just couldn't believe it. Yes, I agree the installer and the manufacturer should have installed a safety. The fact seems to be that most, at least in my area, professional installers of OWB's don't know what to do, or what to look for, or for that matter what is code. Code in my area calls for pex tubing to have a permanent crimped connection.

 

[046]

ok.... thanks for clarifying.

I see stainless steel clamps used in underground applications all the time. local city utility workers use stainless steel clamps to fix 2 feet diameter water mains.

naturally industry specific clamps would be best.

 

[millermountain]

outdoor woodboiler disaster

badgerbob, i installed a 6300 in september,the only problem i have had with it is that it sprung a leek at one of the welds inside the boiler. i called royall and they said get it fixed and send us the bill. well it took about 20 calls and three months to get my money.after reading about your problem i'm wondering about your dump zone.if the temp in my boiler reaches 200 my dump zone opens and stays open until the temp goes down to 185. this summer i am installing a backup dump zone in case the first one fails or my zone valve fails.