penetrating oil?

[gtstang462002]

Gtstang, Iam having trouble understanding why grease would be better than antiseeze, when there is heat and a rotating mass,.What would make the grease hold up to heat and a rotating mass any better than antiseeze, Thanks Eric

The steel will actually absorbe some of the grease preventing the corrosion from forming. Since the nickel is already a type of metal the steel will not absorb the nickel like it will the grease. The whole object of the game here is corrosion prevention as the corrosion is the cause of most headaches in these types of applications.

 

[mga]

MGA, Did you giver a couple wacks around the outer edges, where the magnets are?, If you etch the mating surfaces epoxy should be fine, E,J,

the magnets are in a circle under the flywheel. they spin around the stator coil. i cleaned it with alcohol and epoxied it back in. seems to be tight again.

i'll find out someday when it's running full speed and the thing flies off, grinding the stator into little bits......LOL...it would be just my luck.

 

[czar800]

The steel will actually absorbe some of the grease preventing the corrosion from forming. Since the nickel is already a type of metal the steel will not absorb the nickel like it will the grease. The whole object of the game here is corrosion prevention as the corrosion is the cause of most headaches in these types of applications.

Your right gtstang, steel that as been wet with oil or grease for awhile you can wash it off and it will still look wet where the oil/grease has been, as you know the steel absorb the oil/grease.

Good thread and post.

 

[bullseye13]

If you read a service manual, most tell you not to put anything on the crankshaft taper itself because then the flywheel will have more opportunity for slippage, shearing keys and messing stuff up. I would clean any corrosion off of the crank taper and flywheel mating surfaces, install them, torque down nut, remove nut and apply grease/antiseaze under and on top of flywheel thrust washer and on crank threads. This should seal off the crankshaft from any moisture getting down to the crankshaft taper from up top.

 

[gtstang462002]

If you read a service manual, most tell you not to put anything on the crankshaft taper itself because then the flywheel will have more opportunity for slippage, shearing keys and messing stuff up. I would clean any corrosion off of the crank taper and flywheel mating surfaces, install them, torque down nut, remove nut and apply grease/antiseaze under and on top of flywheel thrust washer and on crank threads. This should seal off the crankshaft from any moisture getting down to the crankshaft taper from up top.

Don't know the manuals for the small engines though this explanation makes perfect sense in theory.

 

[joesawer]

I totally agree with bulleye. Putting any kind of greas or anti-sieze between the crank and fly wheel is asking for trouble. They depend on the friction in the taper fit to hold it securely.



I think you have the anti-sieze all wrong. It is generally in an oil base so any oil soaking into the steel would soak in as well.
This oil soaking in is a whole different topic.
What makes anti-sieze work is that it leaves a thin layer of softer metal, such as copper, aluminum, or in pre epa/osha days lead. The softer metal layer ensures that the two surfaces will not bind and micro weld "sieze" as they are moved against each other under heavy pressure.
It works very well on steel on steel or steel on iron surfaces. it also works well on such problem areas as steel spark plugs in aluminum heads.
The anti-sieze is much better for long term use as it is a light oil with soft metal fillings. The oil or grease will gum up, decay and loose its lubricating qualitys but the thin layer of soft metal will still be there.

 

[user 19670]

well....i figured what's the worst that could happen...right?

so, i took my large ball-peen hammer and a large drift punch and whacked it a few times around the bossed areas, then a couple hits on top and *pop* up it came.

the only damage was one of those magnets came loose, but remained intact.

maybe a little epoxy....

almost 5 days of hitting, heating and banging on that cursed flywheel! i could see where the rust was "welding" it to the shaft's taper once i got it off. some 600 paper and it's as good as new.

definately anti-sieze on this one for future service. my log splitter better appreciate the time i put in this engine.

and....a few cans of Kroil or PB Blaster is on the list. thanks for the encouragement..lol

Taper = Press fit. Not a good idea to use anti-seize for press fits as the powdered metal in it takes up clearance and makes you THINK it is tight before it actually is.
Regular grease or oil is never recommended for taper fits because hydraulic action keeps the bore expanding far after it should have tightened up (sometimes results in cracked bore).

 

[mga]

ok.

no anti-sieze on the taper. i'll use a little bearing grease instead.

 

[cjcocn]

Taper = Press fit. Not a good idea to use anti-seize for press fits as the powdered metal in it takes up clearance and makes you THINK it is tight before it actually is.
Regular grease or oil is never recommended for taper fits because hydraulic action keeps the bore expanding far after it should have tightened up (sometimes results in cracked bore).

I imagine that I'll run into this somewhere down the line, so I will ask now just so I am clear on it.

So that means that one should use nothing on taper fits? (no anti-seize, oil, or grease)

I know what's gonna happen if I don't ask - tomorrow I will run into this and won't know what to do.

Thanks

 

[joesawer]

I imagine that I'll run into this somewhere down the line, so I will ask now just so I am clear on it.

So that means that one should use nothing on taper fits? (no anti-seize, oil, or grease)

I know what's gonna happen if I don't ask - tomorrow I will run into this and won't know what to do.

Thanks

LOL!
Yes, no grease, oil or anti-sieze on taper fit, 99.9999% of the time. A rare manufacture spec may call for lube, but as a standerd they should be assembled dry and clean.

 

[cjcocn]

LOL!
Yes, no grease, oil or anti-sieze on taper fit, 99.9999% of the time. A rare manufacture spec may call for lube, but as a standerd they should be assembled dry and clean.

Got it. Thanks!

 

[cabinman]

Ok, Mga

the magnets are in a circle under the flywheel. they spin around the stator coil. i cleaned it with alcohol and epoxied it back in. seems to be tight again.

i'll find out someday when it's running full speed and the thing flies off, grinding the stator into little bits......LOL...it would be just my luck.

I waz thinkin, They were mounted to the flywheel, and had to be utterily offended to come lose, lololol, stihl wondering, Did you givim a couple of wacks, Out there on the perimiter of the flywheel? If not,. why do you think they came loose? Eric

 

[cabinman]

Ok

The steel will actually absorbe some of the grease preventing the corrosion from forming. Since the nickel is already a type of metal the steel will not absorb the nickel like it will the grease. The whole object of the game here is corrosion prevention as the corrosion is the cause of most headaches in these types of applications.

That makes sence, Iam glad I asked, Thanks, Eric

 

[cabinman]

Opinions

So after reading all posts, it sounds like a DRY assembly is most popular,.I understand the friction grip part, several of my milling, drilling machines are taper fitted tooling, But never had an Issue with tooling being in vary long,, Iam going with the dry therory, Thanks, Eric

 

[rb_in_va]

No love for Fluid Film in AS land?

 

[mga]

So after reading all posts, it sounds like a DRY assembly is most popular,.I understand the friction grip part, several of my milling, drilling machines are taper fitted tooling, But never had an Issue with tooling being in vary long,, Iam going with the dry therory, Thanks, Eric

he's right. the flywheel must be cleaned and dry before assembling:

Before installing a flywheel on the crankshaft, always use a clean cloth (white in color, to see the dirt) to remove any dirt or oil from the crankshaft taper and most importantly, inside the flywheel taper. Use cleaning solvent if you must. And use emery cloth to remove any light rust or scale. Clean both tapers thoroughly. This is very, very important! Because the flywheel must keep up with the rapid acceleration (or driving force) of the piston via the crankshaft. Any oil or dirt trapped in or on the tapers will allow the flywheel to slip or rock back and forth, in which will shear an aluminum key or with a steel key, would wallow out both keyways and possibly crack or break the flywheel and/or crankshaft. Dirt/oil on the tapers is the main reason why most custom-made billet steel high performance crankshafts break.

source:

http://members.aol.com/pullingtractor/flywheel.htm

 

[Streblerm]

back on topic ...

My favorite penetrating oils from the past, meaning that you probably can't get them any more are:

GM heat riser lube. It was sort of a grayish foamy type of lube.

Mobil1 penetrating oil was great too. I was buying it for like 2$ per can from Autozone. It was also kind of foamy, but more of a whiteish color. Compared to the GM heat riser lube it seemed to have more long term lubricating qualities


My favorite current brand of penetrating oil is Seafoam penetrating oil in a spray can. Most local auto parts stores stock it. It is a little pricey at $6-7 per can, but man does it work great. Again it is kind of foamy and seems to leave behind a fairly long lasting film. Good stuff.

 

[Zodiac45]

PB Blaster works pretty good.

+1

 

[gtstang462002]

My favorite penetrating oils from the past, meaning that you probably can't get them any more are:

GM heat riser lube. It was sort of a grayish foamy type of lube.

Mobil1 penetrating oil was great too. I was buying it for like 2$ per can from Autozone. It was also kind of foamy, but more of a whiteish color. Compared to the GM heat riser lube it seemed to have more long term lubricating qualities


My favorite current brand of penetrating oil is Seafoam penetrating oil in a spray can. Most local auto parts stores stock it. It is a little pricey at $6-7 per can, but man does it work great. Again it is kind of foamy and seems to leave behind a fairly long lasting film. Good stuff.

All of the oils named here have worked well for me in the past as I spent many years working for GM until I came over to Ford. When ford started having problems getting the plugs out of the 5.4L 3valve motor I tried everything with the aerokroil being my last choice due to the price of it. That is what made me a believer in the kroil.

 

[olyman]

Kroil

Kroil

Kroil

here also--and ive tried every one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!