Percentage of people strictly looking for cheap

[mckeetree]

I had an interesting conversation with an Austin, Texas tree service owner the other day about how the percentage of people just looking for cheap and cheap alone has tripled in the last 20 years. We both had the same number in mind...if you take PHC/diagnosis/treatment out of the equation and just count the callers that want pruning and or removal the number would be around 45% or almost half. Probably 15% twenty years ago. Of course that's just in our necks of the woods. When I say only looking for cheap I mean price is the ONLY factor they consider when hiring someone to do the job. They don't want to hear about references, insurance, certs, degrees, all the equipment you have or anything else. They just want to hear cheap.

 

[hannontree1]

i totally agree im in florida small company not alot of over head and still cant beat prices being given i blam door knockers here and by that i mean they guys that have a pick up a ladder and no clue what a saddle or lanyard is the give home owner price and then when i show up to give estimate they think im to high priced but im all legal and follow the rules

 

[mckeetree]

i totally agree im in florida small company not alot of over head and still cant beat prices being given i blam door knockers here and by that i mean they guys that have a pick up a ladder and no clue what a saddle or lanyard is the give home owner price and then when i show up to give estimate they think im to high priced but im all legal and follow the rules

Yep, door knockers are a problem...door knockers, illegal aliens, landscape companies that want to horn in on tree work and have some old drunk at the ready if they hook a tree job, two bit operators with no insurance or equipment, folks working under the table, etc. ,etc.

 

[cedar]

Most of the time it is the large trees that go cheap. I recently bid on a large Siberian elm, over a fence, power line, and busy road. The "professionals" doing the work quoted $750 and they were not even the lowest bid. I know they will go out of business, but as it has been said before, there is always be someone to replace them.

 

[hannontree1]

i agree again and it hurts all of us from are pricing to what are insurance cost is

 

[mckeetree]

Most of the time it is the large trees that go cheap. I recently bid on a large Siberian elm, over a fence, power line, and busy road. The "professionals" doing the work quoted $750 and they were not even the lowest bid. I know they will go out of business, but as it has been said before, there is always be someone to replace them.

Yes, it seems there is always someone to replace them season after season, year after year.

 

[Tree&Stump]

One of the most ironic things in arboriculture is the ability for the know nothing hacks to sell up customers regardless of their low ranking levels of experience and knowledge of the tree care industry. Nothing that can be said or done can stop them either. They love what they do, and their customers just play into their hands. These are master sales people (rhetoricians) though, and they are not masters of technical arboriculture.

They work hard on sales and relationships with the customers, and then they wing the job, top the tree, and they get out of there very pleased. One thing they don't do is sell work for cheap. They sell BS tree work for high prices which is what is ironic about these people.

A rule of thumb is that if the job went to the cheapest bidder, one of these salesmen were not there to put in his price against the rest. They are masters of rhetoric not of tree care, and they make the most money in every industry based less on their technical knowledge and skills than their personable abilities. That's always been a fact.

Rhetoric - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If the customer goes with lowest bid, a lot of times it's because everyone bidding was a personable dud in the customer's mind.

 

[Tree&Stump]

And their bread and butter is door-to-door.

Bill Clinton is a good example of a rhetorician. Imagine if Bill only put signs on the trucks, and put out some business cards. His sales would be lower than if he went out there door to do what he is clearly able to do which is get to know strangers and talking trees. Now customers are falling for getting arbo work done, and paying the higher price is not so painful. The man made their day.

Imagine if Bill were climbing the trees instead. What a waste of talent and money.

 

[treemandan]

I think that during the last 20 years you all have been hammering them with outrageous prices to keep youselves in diamonds and fur and now the tables have been turned. They have had it, its a revolution!

 

[mckeetree]

I think that during the last 20 years you all have been hammering them with outrageous prices to keep youselves in diamonds and fur and now the tables have been turned. They have had it, its a revolution!

Ha. I've been hammering them with prices just high enough to stay in business.

 

[Stephen Barnes]

cheap

I find that people are looking for a good deal and are more aggressive when negotiating the price but are scared of cheap cheap. This is judging form the words I put in my adds. If I say affordable I get more replies than when I say cheap. But true, people don't value quality of work or customer service as much as they used to.

 

[Slvrmple72]

Educating the CL moron on the true costs of treework is a great way to hone your business skills....or be driven to drink. I mean look at all of the firewood you are gonna get from that takedown! You should be paying me for my tree! Some of it is sinking into them thar thick skulls though.... do it for free requests but please be insured!!! Seriously! SERIOUSLY!!! You sir are hitting yourself in the head with the wrong end of the hammer. I sure as hell do not miss that customer base....they are unwitting enablers to junkies and alcoholics and do not know it or do not care as long as the price is right. Cop an attitude with me when I let you know how big of a fool you are! Threaten me with the loss of your $1800 removal business that you want done for twofiddy! Shove that tree up yer cornhole and spend the rest of yer life digging out splinters!

 

[woodchuck357]

A lot of farmers went broke because they felt they needed every possible piece of equipment even tho they didn't have a real need to own it.

Tree workers have done the same, instead of renting equipment or doing it the hard way they went out and bought tools they really seldom need then they have to up their price to try to get all of their customers to pay for stuff not needed often. The resulting cost to the homeowner often means needed work doesn't get done, or some one will do it for less. Many homeowners would rather not have the "two guys and a pickup" but that's all they can afford.

Many tree people, who work for less than the over equipped ones, are good at working with trees and do quality work.

Whine all you want, it doesn't put money in your pocket. Accept it, you have priced yourself out of your market.

 

[mikewhite85]

The percentage of people whose only criteria is price is more a question of marketing. If you market yourself to the people who are willing to pay more, then you will not get as many of the people who only want to hire lowballers. For instance, if you have a professional website and talk a lot about quality, people will know you are not the lowest price operation in town. You will get customers who care about quality.

On the flip side, if the name of your company is "Affordable tree Care" or something similar, and on your website it talks about how you have competitive prices you will get a lot more calls from those kinds of people.

It's the difference between this:
Finch Tree

and this:

INEXPENSIVE TREE SERVICES

 

[mckeetree]

I find that people are looking for a good deal and are more aggressive when negotiating the price but are scared of cheap cheap. This is judging form the words I put in my adds. If I say affordable I get more replies than when I say cheap. But true, people don't value quality of work or customer service as much as they used to.

There again, I think a lot of it has to do with where you are geographically. About half of them around here aren't scared of cheap cheap. And I think that's probably true of anywhere in the South or Southwest based on folks in the business I have conversed with over the last couple of years. And yes, people don't value quality of work or customer service as much as they used to, at least in my area.

 

[mckeetree]

A lot of farmers went broke because they felt they needed every possible piece of equipment even tho they didn't have a real need to own it.

Tree workers have done the same, instead of renting equipment or doing it the hard way they went out and bought tools they really seldom need then they have to up their price to try to get all of their customers to pay for stuff not needed often. The resulting cost to the homeowner often means needed work doesn't get done, or some one will do it for less. Many homeowners would rather not have the "two guys and a pickup" but that's all they can afford.

Many tree people, who work for less than the over equipped ones, are good at working with trees and do quality work.

Whine all you want, it doesn't put money in your pocket. Accept it, you have priced yourself out of your market.

Something tells me you don't have much equipment.

 

[mckeetree]

The percentage of people whose only criteria is price is more a question of marketing.

There is more to it than that. At least here.

 

[treemandan]

One of the most ironic things in arboriculture is the ability for the know nothing hacks to sell up customers regardless of their low ranking levels of experience and knowledge of the tree care industry. Nothing that can be said or done can stop them either. They love what they do, and their customers just play into their hands. These are master sales people (rhetoricians) though, and they are not masters of technical arboriculture.

They work hard on sales and relationships with the customers, and then they wing the job, top the tree, and they get out of there very pleased. One thing they don't do is sell work for cheap. They sell BS tree work for high prices which is what is ironic about these people.

A rule of thumb is that if the job went to the cheapest bidder, one of these salesmen were not there to put in his price against the rest. They are masters of rhetoric not of tree care, and they make the most money in every industry based less on their technical knowledge and skills than their personable abilities. That's always been a fact.

Rhetoric - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If the customer goes with lowest bid, a lot of times it's because everyone bidding was a personable dud in the customer's mind.

F N A Right!

 

[mckeetree]

Whine all you want, it doesn't put money in your pocket. Accept it, you have priced yourself out of your market.

I took a look at that and found you wrong. In 1993 we were getting $975.00 a day for a four man tree crew and equipment. That wasn't enough but the market around here would support that and very, very few people considered using the hackaroos trying to get work for same size crew at $400.00 to $500.00 a day. Very few. What cost $975.00 in 1993 would cost $1525.86 in 2013 and we are charging $1,400.00 a day for a four man crew and equipment...again it's not really enough, but no, I DID NOT price myself out of business. In fact we should be charging $125.86 a day more with inflation. The problem is, nowadays there are hacks and illegals working the same size crew for $600.00 to $700.00 a day and people are using them. Like I said, on trimming and removals 45% of them are using them.

 

[deevo]

I took a look at that and found you wrong. In 1993 we were getting $975.00 a day for a four man tree crew and equipment. That wasn't enough but the market around here would support that and very, very few people considered using the hackaroos trying to get work for same size crew at $400.00 to $500.00 a day. Very few. What cost $975.00 in 1993 would cost $1525.86 in 2013 and we are charging $1,400.00 a day for a four man crew and equipment...again it's not really enough, but no, I DID NOT price myself out of business. In fact we should be charging $125.86 a day more with inflation. The problem is, nowadays there are hacks and illegals working the same size crew for $600.00 to $700.00 a day and people are using them. Like I said, on trimming and removals 45% of them are using them.

I haven't been in the business as long as you mckee but yeah even the big green machine and a few other of the bigger co's around me have dropped their prices pretty substantially just to get work and keep their hourly employees going. I have a lot of loyal customers, and do work for the county, my local township and insurance companies so I don't really have to haggle with them. There was a good article in this months TCIA magazine about sales and stuff, found it pretty interesting. Today I sold a pretty big job, $2500 worth of work, using a crane etc.... lady was happy with my price. Will take us about 7 hours, only need the crane for likely 1.5-2 hours max, one narly 3 stem birch over the house/hydro. Septic in front so no bucket. Then deadwooding some big maples, hedge trim, 3 small stumps. So after paying the crane will still make a good buck. I price by the job, not man hours. We can rock some big removals in a short amount of time! I bid on 15 jobs in the past week and have gotten them all priced what they should be priced at. I was a bit higher on a few but talked to the customers about how we are going to do them and stressed safety etc.....plus we are only one of a hand full of companies who have WSIB (workers comp) for you guys in my area. I use that as a selling point as well to customers. Like some have said guess it's whatever geographical area you are in. We do have the local hacks and stuff but they can't handle the big jobs nor do they have the proper equipment/training. It's too bad some area's the industry has gotten like this, but it has unfortunately.