PLEASE HELP whisper chipper cranks but wont run ?

[wdamaro]

Hi, Im looking for some advice as to why my old chipper will crank but wont start. 6cyl ford engine

I purchased it from some hoarder who bought it and let it sit for 4yrs. Supposedly it was owned by the local gas company then it was owned by the mayor who had it rebuilt prior to him buying it.

So what ive done so far is :

Removed the oil bath air filter to make way for a paper filter, removed the gas tank ( shot due to rust ) poured some marvel mystery oil down each cylinder, poured some seafoam down the carb, seafoam down the fuel pump, changed the fuel filter, changed oil and filter, changed the plugs, wires, coil, batt, batt wires, cleaned the cap and rotor, cleaned the points and greased the bearings.

Let that sit for about a week then put a new gas tank on and new fuel.

It cranks over all day and I can see that its getting fuel but it wont start even if I disconnect the gas line and just try using starter fluid.
While cranking itll kinda backfire outta the carb and spit air/fuel out and sometimes flames.
I know its getting spark cause ive tested that.
I checked the timing and it seems to be fine, I just turned it then put it back the way it was before.
Just cranks til the battery dies doesnt even sound like it wants to fire.



On another note I saw when I took the flywheel housing off that grease I had just put in was coming out in a glob behind where it looked like the bearings would be.
Is that another problem or is that normal, and If I run it like that will i have problems in the future?

 

[equipmentguru]

Since the chipper sat for so long. The carburetor is probably going to have to be disassembled and cleaned. It still probably has bad fuel and possibly some debris in the float bowl and or some of the jets or passage ways. Another possibility is that the timing could be off, especially if someone has done work to the engine. The distributor could have been removed and put back in the engine at the wrong clock position. Unless the engine is running, you are not going to get an accurate timing reading.

 

[wdamaro]

Update

I took the valve cover and the side plate off and saw that the intake pushrods were all bent four were slightly and two were broken. Seems like for some reason the intake valves were stuck closed.

Ive ordered a set of pushrods and will be installing them tomorrow along with trying to free those stuck valves by using carb cleaner and a rubber mallet.

Any ideas what could have caused them to stick like that.

I read that using ether ( starting fluid ) could have had something to do with it , also read that the cam lobes could be messed up.

The exhaust pushrods are fine and operate normally cause when I crank it with the cover off I can see them working and they are straight.

anyone have any thoughts as to why they are stuck and how to keep this from happening again. and if I cant get them free do I have to take them out and replace them.

 

[equipmentguru]

How does the timing chain look?

 

[wdamaro]

havent took the head off so i cant see it.
Do you think some of the valves couldver stuck closed from sitting

 

[kr5258]

I have never seen valves stick closed. Pull the timing chain cover and check to see if the crank & cam are properly indexed (#1 at TDC). Pistons hitting the valves is what usually bends the pushrods.

If I remember right, the flywheel has a groove in it when #1 is at TDC when looking through the timing hole. Line that up and check your #1 valves, should be closed (on the compression stroke). Quicker than pulling the cover. Cam/crank marks may still be off a hair but if its 180° out it will be obvious.

View attachment 215854

 

[wahlturfcare]

check the picup coil in the distributor. I know they will sometimes shoe spark but not enough.
mine has done that twice in 8 years after it sits for awhile.

 

[DDM]

pull the valve cover back off and pop the valves with a rubber mallet see if they move and the spring moves them back to where they were. If the push rods bent they could possible be rusted. Ive seen this happen once or twice especially since it sat for so long.

 

[Walt41]

Sounds like you are in pretty deep on this one, keep in mind that the folks at Ford cranked those things out like popcorn and you can score one that runs at a junkyard for a few hundred. A junkyard replacement might wind up cheaper in the long run and you would still have a parts motor.

 

[sawinredneck]

pull the valve cover back off and pop the valves with a rubber mallet see if they move and the spring moves them back to where they were. If the push rods bent they could possible be rusted. Ive seen this happen once or twice especially since it sat for so long.

YUP! Put some of that marvel oil on top of the valves as well to lube them, tap them with the mallet twice a day after soaking a day to knock the rust off.
BUT, I still want to know why the pushrods bent! Did the timing chain skip? Did it drop a valve? It might be they are just rusty, but I have a hard time unless the machine was left open and outside for prolonged periods of time.
I dunno, but seems like something else might be going on inside that engine!

 

[pdqdl]

I have seen stuck valves bend quite a few push rods. I would consider it "common" for any engine that sat for 4 years.

Ether is unlikely to cause the problem.

By the way: SeaFoam doesn't really burn too well. You might have gotten that thing to run a little bit (even on bent valves) if it wasn't drowning in petrochemicals that were not intended to burn.

Count on cleaning the carb. It's usually not too tricky on an old chipper carb, and until you take it off and inspect (and the rest of the air intake), you don't even know that it isn't filled with wasp nests or some other crap.

 

[pdqdl]

Most recently? I had bent push rods on the tiny little 4-cycle engine on my Stihl backback blower. It had unbelievable compression, but you had to gang up on it with two hard working dudes to get it going. One to hold it down, while the other pulled for all he was worth. Get winded...switch places...start over.

WTF? Yep...stuck valves.

 

[BDChainsaw]

just a thoght

If somebody that didn't know what they where doing was in that motor you got your hands full. But here's something that nobody has touched on rocker arms. Is this engine mechanical or hydraulic? Improperly installed lifters or improperly adjusted rocker arms will bend push rods like bananas on the first crank. Also if the lifters are hydraulic and pumped up tightening them out of sequence or too quickly not allowing excess oil to bleed off will turn push rods into boomerangs. Check it out Hydraulic lifters usually don't have adjuster screws on the rocker arms. But again who knows what's been done before you. Hydraulic lifters are an assembly of a few small parts mechanical lifters are basically slugs of metal. It will be obvious.

 

[BDChainsaw]

globs of grease

Most heavy eguipment be it a chipper tractor what have you has grease zerks. People get used to pumping them until they see movement or feel pressure. The throw out bearing and clutch shaft don't take much grease some manuals only lube them annualy. I would say that glob is from over lubricating. Check for cracks and missing chunks though wile your there. I see it alot.

 

[wdamaro]

Yet another update

Yea thanks alot everyone. Ill be looking into all those things everyone suggested.

And by the way they are 1 piece mechanical rockers.
I did over lubricate the zerk i was just wondering why it didnt push back through the zerk and instead went through to the other side forming the glob. Just hope its not a crack somewhere.

Also the chipper did sit outside in a field for 4 years. It was covered by the enging housing cover but I could see how it could form condensation and then rust.

Pulled the dist off and cleaned the points and they are sparking great.

Took a rubber mallet to the valves without using a spring compressor and two bounced back and two were stuck and two were slowly being pulled back to their place.

Seems like after letting them soak the ones that slowly pulled back into place are looser but I still havent freed the stuck 2.

Im gonna work on getting the valves free by using a spring compressor and rubber mallet but if i cant free em im just gonna take the head off and get new valves. I have a friend that has feeler guages

Does anyone know the clearances to set them at. its a ford straight six 4.9.



I cant afford this thing being down any longer. i have a big job comin up and was planning on using this thing instead of renting again.
I dont know about anyone else but this winter is killin me, were gettin no snow and im goin stir crazy not workin. I pray for a snow storm but also for this thing to be fixed.'

 

[BDChainsaw]

stuck valves

Your valves might be stuck due to crud and rust not bent. If you choose to pull your head clean them on a wire wheel and the guide holes with a bore brush and solvent. Check your valve stems for run out with a dial indicator in a lathe chuck. Not saying it can't happen but bent valves are rare unless piston contact has occurred due to cam timing problems. Check your timing chain or gear set.

 

[wdamaro]

Hey BDchainsaw, I was adjusting the distributor while trying to crank the thing before I pulled the cover off. Do u think retarding and advancing the timeing a few degrees would have done that. I wasnt much more than a few degrees, but I do have a feeling that someone tried to start it and bent em before I bought it.

 

[pdqdl]

I don't think the old ford engines they stuck in chippers were able to hit the valves. on an old engine that rusted up, you are more likely to get a few valves either stuck open (no compression, limited fire) or closed. Valve stuck closed will almost always bend a pushrod, with the final effect being that cylinder will not fire up and pull it's weight.

 

[BDChainsaw]

two different types of timing

Turning the distributor changes ignition timing. How you install the cam affects valve Timing. You could literally spin the distributor and your values would not make contact with the pistons. I would say you have gunk on the valve stems acting like a brake. Since the valve is hanging up and not closing your getting flames out of your carb called back fire. Are you sure your push rods are bent? Just asking. I've never seen push rods a little bent. It's usually obvious. Roll them on a flat surface one at a time. Any wobble they're junk. I suggest replacing the whole set. Get a Haynes or Chilton 's manual for older ford trucks. That will help you alot. But remember to check your ignition timing. If its out your telling the ignition to fire when your valves are open. This will cause backfire as well. It all works together. The procedure for setting your engines timing will be covered in the manuals I have suggested in far greater detail than we could do here.

 

[BDChainsaw]

cap wiring

If the wires are on the cap out of sequence it will back fire. Think of your distributor cap as a switch board and the operator has plugged you into the wrong number. It all works together. This happened to me on a old truck check it out. A good manual will help you understand how these systems work and function together. Have you ever seen this thing run?