MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
I dunno, 4 or 5 seconds maybe.
Plenty of work!
- Thread starter MasterBlaster
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rbtree
Addicted to ArboristSite
So, MB, are you using a split tail yet?
Speaking from 30 yrs of experience, it would take me 15-30seconds to untie my safety stopper 8, then the friction knot, then the saddle connection knot. And 30-45 seconds to tie back in for next rappel off the hook (or lift back up.) Assume a 30 pick crane day, that would add quite a few dollars to the bill.
With a split tail and spliced eye, it is more like 2 seconds. It does take me a few seconds to slide my Vt to the end, as I use it to choke the trunk as should be done for a bomb proof second tie in. Try doing that without a split tail....
Those of us that have been around as long as you and I have all used the old climbing methods. And those who like myself have eagerly tried the new skills and tools are much the better off for it.
Hope you see Tom's TCI article. It, while not extremely detailed, is great. Doubt you'd ever need to put crampons on tho...as ice and Lousyanner go together like a fish and a bicycle.
Speaking from 30 yrs of experience, it would take me 15-30seconds to untie my safety stopper 8, then the friction knot, then the saddle connection knot. And 30-45 seconds to tie back in for next rappel off the hook (or lift back up.) Assume a 30 pick crane day, that would add quite a few dollars to the bill.
With a split tail and spliced eye, it is more like 2 seconds. It does take me a few seconds to slide my Vt to the end, as I use it to choke the trunk as should be done for a bomb proof second tie in. Try doing that without a split tail....
Those of us that have been around as long as you and I have all used the old climbing methods. And those who like myself have eagerly tried the new skills and tools are much the better off for it.
Hope you see Tom's TCI article. It, while not extremely detailed, is great. Doubt you'd ever need to put crampons on tho...as ice and Lousyanner go together like a fish and a bicycle.
murphy4trees
Addicted to ArboristSite
MB..
Do us all a favor and put a watch on it.... your 4-5 seconds may in fact be 30- 40 seconds.. x 12= 6-8 minutes/day x 5= 30-40 minutes/week..... x 50 =25-30 hours/ year x $40= $1000-1200/ year in your lost productivity... When your working with a crane and crew its not only your time at stake, it could $150-500/hr at issue... That could make it as high as $15,000/year in lost productivity....
If it actually takes an average of 1 minute longer to untie and retie your hitch, than to unclip and reclip a spliced eye, that could be 20k/year in lost productivity....
And its not just money at stake... working faster and more efficiently also makes it safer, much safer....
Now how many other repeptitive actions could you tweak to increase speed and efficiency.... save a minute or two every time you gas and oil the saws... or a few seconds using loopies to tie off every limb to be lowerred, a minute every time you bag or box a rope rather than wrapping it up.... using a whoopie sling, or folding cube, or velcro climber pads etc.... All those seconds add up BIG TIME!!!
PS.. After Isabel a little bitty 20 ton crane crew could easily pull in 8K/day for the first couple of weeks... That is $1,000/hr.
PPS... the day before I left Virginia, I referred a tree removal job to a guy I had talked to on the phone a while back... I stopped by the job to meet him, where he told me that a guy got killed when working for him. It was a new guy who shouldn't have been climbing.... The company used split tails with the blake hitch, no spliced eye..... The climber's anchor hitch to the biner failed and he fell backwards from 50' and landed on his head...
An $18 SPLICED EYE COULD HAVE SAVED A LOT MORE THAN A FEW SECONDS TO TIE AND UNTIE THAT ANCHOR HITCH!!!
Do us all a favor and put a watch on it.... your 4-5 seconds may in fact be 30- 40 seconds.. x 12= 6-8 minutes/day x 5= 30-40 minutes/week..... x 50 =25-30 hours/ year x $40= $1000-1200/ year in your lost productivity... When your working with a crane and crew its not only your time at stake, it could $150-500/hr at issue... That could make it as high as $15,000/year in lost productivity....
If it actually takes an average of 1 minute longer to untie and retie your hitch, than to unclip and reclip a spliced eye, that could be 20k/year in lost productivity....
And its not just money at stake... working faster and more efficiently also makes it safer, much safer....
Now how many other repeptitive actions could you tweak to increase speed and efficiency.... save a minute or two every time you gas and oil the saws... or a few seconds using loopies to tie off every limb to be lowerred, a minute every time you bag or box a rope rather than wrapping it up.... using a whoopie sling, or folding cube, or velcro climber pads etc.... All those seconds add up BIG TIME!!!
PS.. After Isabel a little bitty 20 ton crane crew could easily pull in 8K/day for the first couple of weeks... That is $1,000/hr.
PPS... the day before I left Virginia, I referred a tree removal job to a guy I had talked to on the phone a while back... I stopped by the job to meet him, where he told me that a guy got killed when working for him. It was a new guy who shouldn't have been climbing.... The company used split tails with the blake hitch, no spliced eye..... The climber's anchor hitch to the biner failed and he fell backwards from 50' and landed on his head...
An $18 SPLICED EYE COULD HAVE SAVED A LOT MORE THAN A FEW SECONDS TO TIE AND UNTIE THAT ANCHOR HITCH!!!
Kneejerk Bombas
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Yeah, he gets paid by the hour. Any increase in efficiency costs him money.
Now, if you have tips to make his work go slower...
Now, if you have tips to make his work go slower...
igetbisy
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some of you guys act like you were born and raised on the osha handbook. don't insult me by assuming that I dont support working safely, but gimme a berak people! I'd work with butch any day.
On second thought, go for it, humor me.
On second thought, go for it, humor me.
blue
ArboristSite Operative
i can't see what everyones problem is with the way MB climbs.i get the vibe that MB is real happy with the knots he uses and is very trusting in what he uses day in day out.until i was shown a blakes hitch i used to climb on a prussik.the blake's was a revalation.i would love someone to to show me some advanced hitches working but do not know anyone round near me who uses them to see if they could advance my knowledge.maybe they could but the blakes work's for me at the moment so each to thier own.
ccooperabbs
ArboristSite Lurker
Blue,
Why not get yourself down to Capel Manor College on the 23rd/24th April for the celebration of trees event, we will be running the tree climbers forum, this will give you an opportunity to try out all the latest hitches, have a play with some lowering kit and discuss really any asopect of the industry you want, whether it be Risk Assessment, LOLER, Pending working at height regs. etc. I think it is free to the trade to get in, and the forum wont cost you anything, we will be running over both days, just bring your harness, your helmet and any ideas you have and would like to share with others.
Chris - theabsolutearbcompany
Why not get yourself down to Capel Manor College on the 23rd/24th April for the celebration of trees event, we will be running the tree climbers forum, this will give you an opportunity to try out all the latest hitches, have a play with some lowering kit and discuss really any asopect of the industry you want, whether it be Risk Assessment, LOLER, Pending working at height regs. etc. I think it is free to the trade to get in, and the forum wont cost you anything, we will be running over both days, just bring your harness, your helmet and any ideas you have and would like to share with others.
Chris - theabsolutearbcompany
NickfromWI
Addicted to ArboristSite
I think you answered your own question. The people here have seen the light, and they want to pass the torch. We don't want you guys walkng around the woods when it's this dark!!!:angel:
love
nick
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
Daniel, I was off on my timing. I checked it today to see. 4 or 5 secs to tie the hitch, another 4 or 5 to dress and set it.
Sooooo, 10 seconds, tops.
Thats quick enough for me.
Sooooo, 10 seconds, tops.
Thats quick enough for me.
Eagle1
ArboristSite Operative
MB nice work.
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
Thank you, sir. 
murphy4trees
Addicted to ArboristSite
MB and all,
Please don't take it the wrong way.... I ain't bustin on you or your techniques.... I've just taken it as a personal goal to give you a little push over the line... Just try it and I know you'll never look back....
I used to plow snow with old monster Dodge pick-ups, 4 speed beasts, flatbeds.... then I got a sweet little RAM Charger 2 door SUV, auto trans, armrest, turns on a dime.... I never looked back and wouldn't plow with a full sized pick-up if you gave me a new one.... That was an eye opener... So the next spring I demoed and bought a diesel self-feeding disc chipper... that machine changed my life.... removing the bottleneck...
Since then I step back from time to time and look for the bottleneck... I Am just about to hire a consultant to revamp the computers/office system....
Anyhow back to MB and friction hitches :angel:
jeremiah... That was my three year old son practiocing typing...7
85 (his three favorite numbers)
10 secs is pretty fast.... I'd actually like to see that!!! Do you back up that tautline with a figure 8?? They don't call it a rolling hitch for nothing!!! Do you wear gloves??? I Am closer to RB's estimate... However I didn't ask how long it takes you to tie it, I asked how long does it take to {untie and retie} your friction hitch... That would be as an average under normal working conditions.... which is different than how fast you CAN untie and retie it...
In any case I think we would all agree that its a lot easier to break the ice if you have someone to show you... Blue said it and so did MB in an earlier thread on tautline appreciation... So I Am open to suggestions as to how we as a brother/sisterhood of arborists can help our bretheren into the modern age...
Please don't take it the wrong way.... I ain't bustin on you or your techniques.... I've just taken it as a personal goal to give you a little push over the line... Just try it and I know you'll never look back....
I used to plow snow with old monster Dodge pick-ups, 4 speed beasts, flatbeds.... then I got a sweet little RAM Charger 2 door SUV, auto trans, armrest, turns on a dime.... I never looked back and wouldn't plow with a full sized pick-up if you gave me a new one.... That was an eye opener... So the next spring I demoed and bought a diesel self-feeding disc chipper... that machine changed my life.... removing the bottleneck...
Since then I step back from time to time and look for the bottleneck... I Am just about to hire a consultant to revamp the computers/office system....
Anyhow back to MB and friction hitches :angel:
jeremiah... That was my three year old son practiocing typing...7
85 (his three favorite numbers)
10 secs is pretty fast.... I'd actually like to see that!!! Do you back up that tautline with a figure 8?? They don't call it a rolling hitch for nothing!!! Do you wear gloves??? I Am closer to RB's estimate... However I didn't ask how long it takes you to tie it, I asked how long does it take to {untie and retie} your friction hitch... That would be as an average under normal working conditions.... which is different than how fast you CAN untie and retie it...
In any case I think we would all agree that its a lot easier to break the ice if you have someone to show you... Blue said it and so did MB in an earlier thread on tautline appreciation... So I Am open to suggestions as to how we as a brother/sisterhood of arborists can help our bretheren into the modern age...
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MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
Come to me and show me in a tree.
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
Uhh, no.
I'm the one whose happy with how I do things now.
Ya'll are the ones who want to 'show me the light'.
:angel:
I'm the one whose happy with how I do things now.
Ya'll are the ones who want to 'show me the light'.
:angel:
SilverBlue
Addicted to ArboristSite
Don’t worry guys, Butch will have plenty of new equipment to try this spring. Perhaps some SRT climbing too EH? Hey MB your ported 200T is almost ready! That will shave an hour off your take down time easily
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
Well it took 3 days to get the two biggest trees down. The job was calculated at one tree daily, but we can make up for this time with the 'smaller' trees' down the line.
So far, so good. The only setback was the ramp incident.
So far, so good. The only setback was the ramp incident.
