poly or steel fuel cans

[hitechredneck]

Our UMCOR/ UNVIM Disaster Team has a number of current type heavy duty poly plastic fuel cans (2 and 5 gallons).

We were debating Thursday about the DOT and NFSA regulations for transporting 2 stroke fuel by 12 foot closed trailer (or pickup trucks).

While I have used steel safety cans for industrial factory use and for tractor spare fuel - I'm curious if professionals in the group have had local or state issues with the newest poly vs traditional safety type steel cans??? Say for flat bed open trailers, truck transport and utility closed trailers.

These cans are used to 10-20% of the year to intermittently "transport" chainsaw and generator fuel to disaster sites in local GA to SC, AL,TN and NC.

We also use a large flat aluminum or poly tray to prevent possible fuel to the trailer wood flooring.

As long as poly cans are not used for too many years and excessive sunlight they appear to do well + are not prone to sparking.

Steel is certainly better at cold temps and overall durability for falls/impacts

Online info is not consistent and often see landscaping + contractors with red poly cans around Georgia. Any definitive USA/regional/State regulation links are appreciated.

Any real situations with DOT fines or state trooper issues.:confused2:

Thanks.

 

[timmcat]

Up in MA we are selling mostly the no-spill cans. The No-Spill branded cans seem to be the best, their nozzle system works awesome, and their no-spill claims are true. We use them in our shop everyday, 6 days a week and my personal mix can is 4 yrs old. At home i have the brass safety cans in 5 gallon size, there good for storage because they seal from the atmosphere and I can get more than 2 months before the gas starts to go bad. Watch out for steel or galvanized cans, the ethanol blended fuels will react to the zinc in the cans and make some funky stuff appear in your carbs. We end up cutting all of the galvanized cans into oil drain pans for the shop.

 

[BroncoRN]

Up in MA we are selling mostly the no-spill cans. The No-Spill branded cans seem to be the best, their nozzle system works awesome, and their no-spill claims are true. We use them in our shop everyday, 6 days a week and my personal mix can is 4 yrs old. At home i have the brass safety cans in 5 gallon size, there good for storage because they seal from the atmosphere and I can get more than 2 months before the gas starts to go bad. Watch out for steel or galvanized cans, the ethanol blended fuels will react to the zinc in the cans and make some funky stuff appear in your carbs. We end up cutting all of the galvanized cans into oil drain pans for the shop.

Are you using stabilizer when storing gas in steel cans?

 

[Modifiedmark]

Why would you be trusting guys in the chainsaw forum to know all this DOT stuff? Why is it even posted in the chainsaw forum?

DOT regulations can vary from state to state. Do your own research and make some phone calls if your seriously interested in the correct answers.

 

[sachsmo]

Why would you be trusting guys in the chainsaw forum to know all this DOT stuff? Why is it even posted in the chainsaw forum?

DOT regulations can vary from state to state. Do your own research and make some phone calls if your seriously interested in the correct answers.

Aw c'mon Mark,

If you read it on the internet, It must be true?

 

[Modifiedmark]

Aw c'mon Mark,

If you read it on the internet, It must be true?

Yep, it gots to be.

 

[mowoodchopper]

Why would you be trusting guys in the chainsaw forum to know all this DOT stuff? Why is it even posted in the chainsaw forum?

DOT regulations can vary from state to state. Do your own research and make some phone calls if your seriously interested in the correct answers.

:hmm3grin2orange: And who gives a #### what dot regulations are any way! Put your fuel in what ever you want, when ever you want

 

[2dogs]

I can't comment on regulations as they vary from state to state but I can give you my experience and recommendations. First off gasoline does not store well especially in warm temps. Race gasoline with a stabilizer is probably the best choice for that. My "long term" storage, up to a month, is in Eagle safety cans that Bailey's sells. They are CARB approved steel cans that self vent via a spring loaded filler cap. They do not vent under normal conditions but only in extreme heat like is common in the back of a pickup truck. I often fill up at night after work when it is cool and then park in the 100o plus sunlight the next day. The No Spill cans will go completely round like and over inflated balloon and MUST be vented before they can dispense or the gas will shoot out under very high pressure.

When I worked as a firefighter all our vehicles had Dolmar cans and all those (older) cans leaked fumes into the compartments. These fumes attacked the resin in our metal and stone cutting blades on our Stihl cutoff saws. Gas cans had to be stored on the opposite side of the engines from the oxygen tanks in case of leaks.

BTW don't forget the appropriate placard(s) on your trailer. You may need to vent the trailer high and low.

 

[hitechredneck]

Yep, it gots to be.

Yes, Looking for the right answers..thought there might even be a real professional arborist service guy on the site that had a recommended NFSA or national related DOT code pertaining to many state codes.. Already have a call to the GDOT + National Highway Safety folks..Agree general forums have lots of contradictory or zero value info info like yours, I should have listed this on a more business part of the site. Replacing with new 2 + 5 gal metal safety cans is a $650.00 costs I'd prefer to justify.

 

[Modifiedmark]

Yes, Looking for the right answers..thought there might even be a real professional arborist service guy on the site that had a recommended NFSA or national related DOT code pertaining to many state codes.. Already have a call to the GDOT + National Highway Safety folks..Agree general forums have lots of contradictory or zero value info info like yours, I should have listed this on a more business part of the site. Replacing with new 2 + 5 gal metal safety cans is a $650.00 costs I'd prefer to justify.

Well part of finding the right answers includes asking questions in the right place. If you think my reply was worth zero value, you need to look again.

The DOT don't mess around and putting placards on a vehicle that dont require them is just as big a problem as not having them on one that does. Placards without the proper paperwork to be carried with the product is also big problems as well as maybe having to have a CDL with the proper endorsments.

I know a little about this as I have had a CDL with a hazard endorsment as long as there have been such a thing, but I'm not going to give you advice as you need to know your local laws and requirements yourself and this is not the place to find those answers.

 

[Philbert]

Our UMCOR/ UNVIM Disaster Team has a number of current type heavy duty poly plastic fuel cans (2 and 5 gallons).
Any real situations with DOT fines or state trooper issues.

I went through some similar issues with our volunteer disaster group, and spent a lot of time on it with our state DOT folks (Minnesota).

The Simple Part

We decided that, according to regulations, we are supposed to have our fuel in approved Safety Cans. We purchased Justrite Type II cans: 5 gallon cans for unleaded fuel (pressure washers, generators, etc.); and 1 gallon cans* for chainsaw fuel mix (*have to get the ones with the smaller diameter spouts to fit in saw tanks). < Justrite Mfg. Co. L.L.C. - Safety products >

Discussion

There was a lot of confusion on this topic.

- Some DOT guys were more focused on the parts of the regulations that specify the total volume of gasoline carried. Exceed that and you become a hazardous materials hauler. Most of these guys did not count the fuel in equipment tanks as part of the total fuel volume (?).

- There are also OSHA regulations on fuel containers. Despite being a volunteer group, if you have a paid leader with you, he/she is covered by OSHA regs.

- These new CARB compliant containers (mostly plastic) are not approved Safety Cans, but confuse a lot of people.

Because of the confusion, and because we work in different states, purchasing the Safety Cans was a way to avoid a potential hassle enroute to some response. To my knowledge, we have never been stopped and inspected on this issue. But, even if a State Trooper is 'wrong' on the technicalities, it could slow things down a bit.

The containers are sturdy and also help to identify our fuel when there are lots of other people around. Being Safety Cans, they 'burp' instead of bloat when things get warm in the trailer. And the two sizes, along with labeling, help to reduce the chances of straight gassing saws. They do cost quite a bit more than the plastic cans.

Philbert

P.S. - We seem to have a number of disaster responders here on A.S. - perhaps we should set up our own forum?

 

[hitechredneck]

thanks

Thanks for the reply, when I took equipment lead role I was going to purchase Metal DOT rated JustRite type 2 fuel cans and discovered the previous DRT/CERT manager already had new 5 gallon Spill-Proof poly cans. Since we cover several states all the way to the Gulf..GDOT is only part my focus.

We are also referencing the US Interagency Transportation Guide for Fuels (PMS442). Good thing is no placarding makers are needed + just regular drivers license.

Since I have two administrative folks endorsing my initial choice anyway- I will just get new JustRite cans and Dolmar cans for field use and give all the No Spill poly cans to the Church yard maintenance folks.

That way I can move forward with trailers setup and equipment storage + other safety improvements.