price of steel

[LipDawg]

It is because us NON-Union shops produce as much if not more than Union shops with Half of the employees! As well as reaping the benefits of Profit sharing, Stock options, and so on and so on!

And yet you still make no more than your union counterpart? Interesting.

 

[gink595]

From my understanding when Nucor bought an existing mill they were a Union mill, Nucor offered to pay the same wage as the guys were making at previous rate or they could accept to take the Nucor bonus pay system I understand it wasn't long before they all decided on the Bonus system becasue they made more money then they did when it was a union shop. Nucor, SDI I know for sure pay their employees very well, guys making 70-100K a year. Maybe not this year due to economy and such but no one is making much money in this industry right now...better but not like it was

 

[gink595]

And yet you still make no more than your union counterpart? Interesting.

Sure we do....are you working right now???? I think we are making more than you?

 

[LipDawg]

Lets see, unemployment+sub pay+firewood sales+unlimited time to hunt+being in a position to transfer to a different Severstal plant if I opt to+not getting out of bed at zero dark thirth=

 

[ROOTSXROCKS]

Wow, sounds like some was fed a double dose of his anti-union kool-aid this morning.

For the record, I do work for Severstal, but have never said if in a union or managment capacity.

That being said, I have never been able to figure out why non-union shops in any industry, steel, auto, etc, always seem to pay right around the exact same as a comprable union shop. For example, the guy assembling Honda's in Marysville earns about what the guy building Cobalts in Lordstown makes. Honda is not saddled with the "legacy" costs of union GM, yet they choose to not pay thier beloved employees more...puzzling, to say the least.

After years of losses, the troubled automaker is forced into bankruptcy. GM is set to close a dozen facilities and cut more than 20,000 jobs.
I don't profess to be a union expert but it seems to me The roots of Socialism lie in precisely those conditions which give rise to Trade Unionism.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/kautsky/1901/04/unions.htm

The more capitalism passes over from free competition to monopoly, the greater the number of its industrial branches that have become unable to develop adequately, the more the influence of state and community on the character and extent of production increases, the more necessary it will be for every class to gain influence on state and community, the more fatal will be the isolation of trade unions that prevents the proletariat from depending and promoting its interests effectively, the more indispensable it will be that the trades unionists are inspired with socialist discernment and socialist enthusiasm the more necessary, on the other hand, that the Social Democracy should be able to rely upon a numerous army of organized trades unionists, on which rest the deepest and firmest roots of its power.

The trades unions will not disappear along with the capitalist mode of production like the journeymen’s organizations vanished with the guilds. On the contrary, they will constitute the most energetic factors in surmounting the present mode of production and they will be the pillars on which the edifice of the socialist commonwealth will be erected

 

[gink595]

Hahaha...well ya got me on that one!

But you know what I'm saying, the reason we are running and not closing plants is due to the fact we are not running things so thin like a union mill would with all the extra BS and extra costs for nothing. We make good money and have job security, Nucor has never had one single layoff in it's history...There is a reason for that

 

[Maldeney]

Lets see, unemployment+sub pay+firewood sales+unlimited time to hunt+being in a position to transfer to a different Severstal plant if I opt to+not getting out of bed at zero dark thirth=

Like I said the Unions have sucked the life out of Manufacturing. It is the sense of entitlement that is the problem. Like you clearly have!

 

[ROOTSXROCKS]

Lets see, unemployment+sub pay+firewood sales+unlimited time to hunt+being in a position to transfer to a different Severstal plant if I opt to+not getting out of bed at zero dark thirth=

how is that good for the company or the country ?
who is paying for all that, The rest of the country, who have been raped with overpriced Cars and parts designed to be replaced.
Yet I still can't find and American made anvil or quality tools because the cost of good Steel is so great.
enjoy your benefits, I hope for your sake they will still be viable when China takes over the US economics, Oh wait that's already in progress.

 

[Maldeney]

Back to the OP.... Steel pricing for flat rolled products for January opened up $50 higher than December did but....... Scrap costs went up $70 for the same month...... So let's see I think that means the steel maker or sorry recycler is making $20 less a ton than in December!opcorn:

But what about the "Steel Maker" why did his pricing go up since they don't follow the scrap market as the said "medium quality" producers do......Hmmmmmm To me it makes sense why the Nucors of the world may have to raise their price but why the Severstals, or US Steel????

 

[KD57]

Back to the OP.... Steel pricing for flat rolled products for January opened up $50 higher than December did but....... Scrap costs went up $70 for the same month...... So let's see I think that means the steel maker or sorry recycler is making $20 less a ton than in December!opcorn:

But what about the "Steel Maker" why did his pricing go up since they don't follow the scrap market as the said "medium quality" producers do......Hmmmmmm To me it makes sense why the Nucors of the world may have to raise their price but why the Severstals, or US Steel????

Because they can.

 

[LipDawg]

Hahaha...well ya got me on that one!

But you know what I'm saying, the reason we are running and not closing plants is due to the fact we are not running things so thin like a union mill would with all the extra BS and extra costs for nothing. We make good money and have job security, Nucor has never had one single layoff in it's history...There is a reason for that

The main reason my particular plant is down is mainly due to bad timing. We had taken the blast furnace down to idle for some routine maintance, in Oct of 2008. November 2008 sees the ecomony tank, and orders for steel dissappear. Since the cost associated with bringing a blast furnace back online is in the tens of millions, and Severstal had other mills still producing, leaving us down was a no brainer. The furnace is on cold idle and winterized, and can be brought fully online in 30 days more or less.

 

[Metals406]

We've been buying our steel for about $.50 a pound. Aluminum has been more reasonable of late as well, allowing us to offer aluminum products for near steel price.

Sure hope steel/alum doesn't jump too high.

 

[LipDawg]

Back to the OP.... Steel pricing for flat rolled products for January opened up $50 higher than December did but....... Scrap costs went up $70 for the same month...... So let's see I think that means the steel maker or sorry recycler is making $20 less a ton than in December!opcorn:

But what about the "Steel Maker" why did his pricing go up since they don't follow the scrap market as the said "medium quality" producers do......Hmmmmmm To me it makes sense why the Nucors of the world may have to raise their price but why the Severstals, or US Steel????

Simple fact is January sees the Great Lake ports frozen shut. Costs more for subsidized foriegn steel to be hauled into the heartland, so local producers can adjust prices upward. Also this year, demand is creeping up, as many service centers have exhausted stocks.

 

[KD57]

We've been buying our steel for about $.50 a pound. Aluminum has been more reasonable of late as well, allowing us to offer aluminum products for near steel price.

Sure hope steel/alum doesn't jump too high.

Wow, steel is high up north, still $.32 to $.38 here.

 

[Maldeney]

The main reason my particular plant is down is mainly due to bad timing. We had taken the blast furnace down to idle for some routine maintance, in Oct of 2008. November 2008 sees the ecomony tank, and orders for steel dissappear. Since the cost associated with bringing a blast furnace back online is in the tens of millions, and Severstal had other mills still producing, leaving us down was a no brainer. The furnace is on cold idle and winterized, and can be brought fully online in 30 days more or less.

Another reason why Mini Mills will be the death of most of the old giants!

It takes a mini mill only hours to have an entire mill running and less than One week to start setting daily production records! Which made for weekly and monthly records! Now that is response to demand. Oh and the "cost" to start that up..... Nothing! Everybody is already at work due to no layoffs, no outside heatup contractor needs to be brought in. Thye need only to throw the switch and watch 'er purr!

 

[Metals406]

Wow, steel is high up north, still $.32 to $.38 here.

Location, location, location. . . LOL

Montana isn't anywhere near any steel producers, a lot of the cost is shipping I'm sure. Pacific Hide and Fur is our local steel supplier and scrap yard. . . They're not known for their low prices. They can be beat by Marmon Keystone out of Utah, or CD'A out of Spokane.

I did a structural job where Marmon Keystone beat Pacific by almost $3,000 on a $10,000 steel order. . . And that was with them shipping from Utah.

On another job, I had steel brought in from Brown-Strauss in Denver. Our saving grace for shipping is Hwy 2 which cuts across the top of the country. . . So we're not too far in the boonies.

 

[LipDawg]

how is that good for the company or the country ?
who is paying for all that, The rest of the country, who have been raped with overpriced Cars and parts designed to be replaced.
Yet I still can't find and American made anvil or quality tools because the cost of good Steel is so great.
enjoy your benefits, I hope for your sake they will still be viable when China takes over the US economics, Oh wait that's already in progress.

How is is good for anyone but LipDawg? Truthfully, I could care less. I have worked more years then I want to think about, with unemployment taxes being paid on my behalf, that I can now exercise those benefits, and still sleep very well at night, thank you very much.

One last thought, if you were being raped by American car prices, how was it that comparable foriegn cars could be shipped thousands of miles overseas, and cost within a few hundred dollars of US product?

I'd love to debate this further, but I hear a treestand calling my name

 

[LipDawg]

Another reason why Mini Mills will be the death of most of the old giants!

It takes a mini mill only hours to have an entire mill running and less than One week to start setting daily production records! Which made for weekly and monthly records! Now that is response to demand. Oh and the "cost" to start that up..... Nothing! Everybody is already at work due to no layoffs, no outside heatup contractor needs to be brought in. Thye need only to throw the switch and watch 'er purr!

Somebody has to make the new steel for you to play with

 

[Dalmatian90]

Well not to burst anyones bubble but the only way to "make steel" is from pig iron which comes from a BOF by way of a Blast Furnace.

Fair enough.

I went and checked the pig iron stats on the link in my first post.

In million metric tons:

1943: 38 pig iron, 80 steel = 47.5%

1960: 59.5 pig iron, 90 steel = 66%

1969: 86.6 pig iron, 128 steel = 67%

2007: 36.3 pig iron, 98 steel = 37%

So we're using significantly less raw resources then we did in the peak of steel production in the late 60s/early 70s.

But we're in the ballpark of what we were doing at the heyday of being the Arsenal of Democracy and scrap iron drives.

As to the quality of steel produced from raw iron v. recycled, I don't know, I'm not that familiar with how different grades/quality of steel is made.

 

[Maldeney]

As to the quality of steel produced from raw iron v. recycled, I don't know, I'm not that familiar with how different grades/quality of steel is made.

There is no difference in the quality of the end product. The only difference is the process of making it. Mini Mills produce the same grades and quality of steel as the 'ol giants.