Problem with free standing wood stoves

[Coldfront]

I think the biggest problem with free standing wood stoves not being able to put out the heat needed when it gets extreme cold is the basic heating ventilation problem of not having a cold air return system. I have a digital thermometer with a probe, a quick check in my main living area says 8" below the ceiling is 70°, I go to the floor 8" above the floor it says 63° I have 2 ceiling fans and 2 free standing fans on the floor to circulate air but still I think no place for the cold air to go. If I come home from work and need to raise the house temperature 10 degree's it takes a good 2 hours with the wood stove. If I kick on the gas furnace I can raise the room temperature ten degree's in about 20 minutes. I think it is all about the sucking out the cold air and blowing back up the warm air, I doubt my gas furnace is really putting out that much more btu's than the wood stove, but the air ducting is correct. If I could put cold air returns going into my basement into a plenum and then have that air sucked up into the outside air intake port on the wood stove might solve a great deal? When I only run the wood stove the basement is cold as hell.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

Insulate your house.

 

[Coldfront]

Insulate your house.

Easier said than done, it is about a 100 year old farm house. I am working on better insulation and windows. That is why I burn wood.

 

[Del_]

Easier said than done, it is about a 100 year old farm house. I am working on better insulation and windows. That is why I burn wood.

Sounds like you need a magic stove.

Or pay the price for a heating system that is so large that it can do the impossible.

Of course this will probably cost more than making your house energy efficient in the first place.


......and leave you every year cutting, splitting, seasoning, moving, loading, etc.

Did I mention polluting?

There is justice in there somewhere!

 

[Coldfront]

The original homesteaders here had a wood stove in the basement. I think that is what I need to go back to. I can do it with free standing wood stoves on the main floor but it is a lot of extra work. I been doing it going on 5th winter now, and it's getting old. The old brick chimney is still going down to the basement. The upstairs wood stoves would be fine for the fringe months Sept. Oct, April, May, June. Either that or I'm going to go the OWB route, 2400 sq ft house.

 

[midwest_170]

I heat 3800 sqft from the basement. Heat works it's way up through the floors and open stairwell. It takes along time to get my house up to temperature with the stove being in the basement, but once it's at 70-72 it's pretty easy to hold it there. Also with your floors retaining heat there is a slow release even after your stove has shut down.

 

[Chris-PA]

I doubt my gas furnace is really putting out that much more btu's than the wood stove

It's not much of a mystery - what is the rating of your gas furnace? It will do that continuously if needed. I'd be very surprised if your stove can put out that rate of energy even at peak output, let alone on average.

Then, your stove is a radiant space heater, while the furnace has a heat exchanger designed to transfer heat to the air duct. Why would you expect them to perform the same way?

 

[zogger]

Can you run just the blower on your furnace, and circulate air around the house that way, still just heating with the wood stove?

 

[taskswap]

... I doubt my gas furnace is really putting out that much more btu's than the wood stove ...

Actually, it almost certainly does. My oil furnace can put out 120k BTU/hr and most gas stoves are sized about the same, depending on the house. Compare that to a QuadraFire 4300 - a very nice product IMO and reasonably "big" for a wood stove. It's advertised as being able to heat up to 3000 square feet... but only puts out 56k BTU/hr at max output (and minimum burn time). Damp that down to get those 12-hour burns, and you're talking maybe a quarter of that output. Which means you're also looking at a SIXTH of what your furnace might do if you damp it way down, or, if you're generous, HALF that if you run it flat-out.

The reason is simple - liquid fuels are incredibly dense energy-wise. A small amount of fuel, atomized, in a burn chamber is going to produce a LOT more heat than a similar quantity of wood. You'd need a wood stove the size of a small refrigerator to be at the same level.

That doesn't mean heating with wood is bad. If anything, I think you're totally right that airflow is hugely important in placing, and then getting the most, out of a wood stove. They heat by radiation and convection, but mostly convection - so if you don't move the air, you don't heat it. And they HOLD heat really well - a good soapstone stove can kick off heat for hours after the fire is down to coals, whereas that gas furnace is cold literally minutes after the fire goes out. It's just a different beast, and needs a different approach.

There really isn't a solution IMO for those long recovery times, but what you said about returns makes a lot of sense. It's been talked about here on AS a lot before - nobody seems to have actual math to support this, but the opinion if you read the other threads is almost unanimous that it's better to use fans or whatever to move cold air (which a furnace return also does) than warm air. But whatever you set up, anything you can do to move that air around is going to be a good thing!

 

[svk]

The original homesteaders here had a wood stove in the basement. I think that is what I need to go back to. I can do it with free standing wood stoves on the main floor but it is a lot of extra work. I been doing it going on 5th winter now, and it's getting old. The old brick chimney is still going down to the basement. The upstairs wood stoves would be fine for the fringe months Sept. Oct, April, May, June. Either that or I'm going to go the OWB route, 2400 sq ft house.

Probably your best choice.

My first house was a 30's era farm house with only a dirt cellar. Unless I kept the potbelly stove rolling which meant it would be 90 degrees in the living room, the floor was always uncomfortably cold to bare feet in the winter.

 

[NH Hunter]

Try reversing one of your ceiling fans. Mine are spaced about 15ft apart and I've found it works great when they really ciculate the air instead of just pushing it down. YMMV...

 

[Ambull01]

Probably your best choice.

My first house was a 30's era farm house with only a dirt cellar. Unless I kept the potbelly stove rolling which meant it would be 90 degrees in the living room, the floor was always uncomfortably cold to bare feet in the winter.

Speaking of bare feet, I had a huge issue breaking myself from the habit of walking around with no shoes. As you know I'm born and raised in Hawaii so I grew up running around barefoot. I still kind of miss the ole "rubbah slippahs."

Anyway, since you live in insanely cold MN, what say you of my plan? I'm going to cut out my door transoms and put in grates with little corner fans. Hopefully the fans will push the warm air out of the stove room. To keep all the warm/hot air from rising up my stairwell to the second level (all the bedrooms are upstairs) I'm going to hang a short little "skirt" of some sort from the upper stairwell opening to act as a barrier and slow down the rising heat. I'll put three floor fans that will run from the kitchen to the stove room to push in cold air.

 

[svk]

Speaking of bare feet, I had a huge issue breaking myself from the habit of walking around with no shoes. As you know I'm born and raised in Hawaii so I grew up running around barefoot. I still kind of miss the ole "rubbah slippahs."

Anyway, since you live in insanely cold MN, what say you of my plan? I'm going to cut out my door transoms and put in grates with little corner fans. Hopefully the fans will push the warm air out of the stove room. To keep all the warm/hot air from rising up my stairwell to the second level (all the bedrooms are upstairs) I'm going to hang a short little "skirt" of some sort from the upper stairwell opening to act as a barrier and slow down the rising heat. I'll put three floor fans that will run from the kitchen to the stove room to push in cold air.

I don't know that you will need to slow down rising heat.

Keeping our living room around 80-85 degrees meant the other rooms main floor were 70 and upstairs was a comfortable 65 which for me is much preferable for sleeping. Never felt a draft of hot air going up/cold air coming down the stair well. We also had grates in the ceiling/floor of each room to help air flow.

 

[Ambull01]

I don't know that you will need to slow down rising heat.

Keeping our living room around 80-85 degrees meant the other rooms main floor were 70 and upstairs was a comfortable 65 which for me is much preferable for sleeping. Never felt a draft of hot air going up/cold air coming down the stair well. We also had grates in the ceiling/floor of each room to help air flow.

I don't know, I think I have to. The stove room is right next to the stairwell. Upstairs feel a lot warmer than the other rooms downstairs. I'm hoping the opening up the transoms and pushing the warm air out of the stove room will allow it to clear the stairwell. I can feel the cold air rushing into the stove room so I may not need the floor fans.

I was thinking about the floor vents but I've read how it allows a house fire to spread to other floors rapidly. My house is a bit high so it will suck having to jump off the roof.

 

[taskswap]

In some places (like where I live) floor vents are now against code. But check yours - you might be allowed to use a vent with a fire damper, like this:

http://www.atlantasupply.com/swscri...2&STOCK_NO=12AH06X04 &REQUEST_ID=CSTKDET

I've thought about opening my own transoms. My stove is in a large room that is well heated by it, but it doesn't get much down the hallway from there. Door-corner fans work pretty well but I think if I just opened a transom I'd get a lot more heat to where I need it, especially with a booster fan. Let us know how yours works out!

 

[zogger]

I don't know, I think I have to. The stove room is right next to the stairwell. Upstairs feel a lot warmer than the other rooms downstairs. I'm hoping the opening up the transoms and pushing the warm air out of the stove room will allow it to clear the stairwell. I can feel the cold air rushing into the stove room so I may not need the floor fans.

I was thinking about the floor vents but I've read how it allows a house fire to spread to other floors rapidly. My house is a bit high so it will suck having to jump off the roof.

Oh, that's an easy fix, just install some trampolines around the house....

 

[Ambull01]

In some places (like where I live) floor vents are now against code. But check yours - you might be allowed to use a vent with a fire damper, like this:

http://www.atlantasupply.com/swscripts/NLNETUPD.OBJ?SESSION_NO=4NM91L2OD2RD41DWAARWAMW59&NL_ORDER_NO=00056684.002&STOCK_NO=12AH06X04 &REQUEST_ID=CSTKDET

I've thought about opening my own transoms. My stove is in a large room that is well heated by it, but it doesn't get much down the hallway from there. Door-corner fans work pretty well but I think if I just opened a transom I'd get a lot more heat to where I need it, especially with a booster fan. Let us know how yours works out!

No dude, you should do it first and report back lol.

Sounds like we're in the exact same predicament. I have a large transom too, in every doorway. One of the disadvantages of a old victorian style house. I was thinking with the transom, I could put in a sliding metal plate on the outside of all the rooms. Have a way to attach a rod or string of some sort so I could slide the metal plate shut to totally close the transom in case of a fire.

 

[Ambull01]

Oh, that's an easy fix, just install some trampolines around the house....

Yeah buddy! Or some of those little plastic ball things. Put them in strategically placed pits around the house so we can jump in them in case of fire. Actually, easiest solution is to attach a slide on my roof to the ground. My dog is on his own. He's afraid of slides and I don't feel like chasing him through hot flames.

 

[svk]

I don't know, I think I have to. The stove room is right next to the stairwell. Upstairs feel a lot warmer than the other rooms downstairs. I'm hoping the opening up the transoms and pushing the warm air out of the stove room will allow it to clear the stairwell. I can feel the cold air rushing into the stove room so I may not need the floor fans.

I was thinking about the floor vents but I've read how it allows a house fire to spread to other floors rapidly. My house is a bit high so it will suck having to jump off the roof.

Well if it is right by the stairwell that makes a big difference. Mine was halfway across the house.

I understand about the vents spreading fire but if you have good smoke detectors you will be alerted. Once a rip-roaring fire gets going vents arent going to make much difference.

 

[Rookie1]

Not sure if it was said yet, lots of reading, but have you tried to run your blower on the furnace to circulate air around your house?