""Professional"" Chain sharpening???

[ontario026]

I just picked up 2 of my chains from the local Stihl dealer that I had dropped off to get sharpened. I am getting better at hand filing, but I wanted to get all the teeth evened up to the same length... I took a look at my 3/8 chain and the teeth are visibly different lengths, and I checked a few teeth with a vernier caliper and the lengths of the teeth differ by quite a bit, enought that I might as well have just hand filed comparing the teeth length with the vernier... They do not appear to have even touched the depth gauges as well....

Am I correct in saying that a competent shop should have sharpened all the teeth to the exact same length?? I feel that I basically wasted 10$ per chain to accomplish the same result as my hand filing??

Thanks
Matthew

 

[njforestfire]

Yes you are correct. They should have evened out the cutting teeth to the same lengths and touched up the depth guages. Give it a shot yourself and then compare the one chain you just did to the one your shop just did. I bet the one you do will cut straighter!

 

[Stumper]

One of the things that the machines allow you do is set a stop and grind each tooth until every tooth is reduced to the same dimension. The shop I frequented for years loosened and ignored the stop and simply eyeballed every tooth. I don't know that you encountered anything unusual. Did you happen to mention that you wanted things evened up? That might have gotten you different results.

 

[Lobo]

My dealer sharpens and evens out the teeth, but not the rakers. He does advise you of this when you drop off the chains and when you pick them up.

Rakers are easy enough to do and really do not take that much time if done regularly.

 

[turnkey4099]

A lot depends on the person doing the sharpening. I have had results from 'great' (usual) to 'horrible' (once). The horrible one was a worker (new hire) who thought he knew everything. The teeth had hooks beyond anything I had ever seen.

Harry K

 

[TonyM]

That's not right. When I sharpen chains for customers, I make at least two passes on every tooth, and dress the wheel before the last pass, which is just a light touch up. I also use a peck grinding motion to keep the heat out of the tooth when removing a lot of material. Then when I flip and do the other side, I use my calipers to set the stops so that both sides match as close as I can get them to. After that I use a feeler gage in combination with the stop to set my raker depth, and I touch up the rakers. I charge $.06 per drive link, and some people think that's a little high, but they never complain after they use a chain.

 

[leweee]

If you want it done right, do it yourself!

Matthew....you have learned a valuable lesson here. No one has your best interests at heart like you do. If the person that ground those chains, had to use them,do you think they would have ground them like that? Disgruntalled employees don't do quality jobs. If they sharpen chain this way do you want them working on your saw? Knowledge is power. You already know what sharpe chain is supposed to look like.Do it Yourself. Think of the money you will save , not to mention the satisfaction of having it done right the first time. :Eye: :Eye:

 

[njforestfire]

I think it's just finding a quality shop to do it right every time. I had a friend of mine who used to sharpen chains for me because I didn't have the time and it was easier to drop off a dozen chains at a time. He did a great job and the cost was only $4 per chain no matter the length ( I usually run 24" a lot). I have since bought a sharpener myself because I wanted to learn more about it (what different angles will do) - plus the cost savings in the long run...just had to re-arrange my time.

 

[tawilson]

Tony,
Sounds like you do it right or even better. How do you determine how to start? Do you just eyeball for the shortest cutter, which is how I hand file, and take it from there?

 

[MasterBlaster]

I like the peck grinding, too.

 

[TonyM]

I tried eyeballing but ended up doing a lot of extra work on a few chains when I came across shorter teeth after having finished one side. Now I use a combination of eyeballing and measuring with calipers to the shortest dull point I can find.

 

[chainsawworld]

matthew,
yes, in all realility the cutters most likely should have been evened up. the only explaination i can think of is that the chain was given to them with the cutters extreamly different lengths and they adjusted the machine when they switched banks of cutters(right side to left side)to avoid taking too much cutter and overheating the metal. not very likely!
are all the top plates at the same angle? are all the rakes set at the same depth? if those two factors are correct the chain will cut straight. easy way to find out is to put the chain on and put it in the wood. if the chain turns in the wood the rakes are not at the right depth for the points to pull the correct amount of fiber for the side plates to cut. the side with the longer top plates will cut more wood because the rake is lower and the point is pulling more fiber.
if you do not have a rake gauge, place a straight edge on top of the chain(on the bar) and look at the distance from the rake to the straight edge. (make it easy and put a white background behind the bar). if you can see a differance with just your eye, you have a problem.
like a local saw shop here said once, they are in business to sell chain, not sharpen it.
anyone can learn to hand sharpen. it takes a good teacher,patience and practice. marty

 

[geofore]

sharpening

Explain to the shop owner what you want/expect before you hand over the chain to be worked on. Did you talk to the guy that does the sharpening? If you don't tell him what you want/expect you'll end up with what he gives you and no two shops are the same. Some have what's called SMHS, the We've Seen too Many Homeowner's Syndrom, sort of like PMS. Homeowners are happy to see some chips fly because the saw has been smoking and throwing powder in the cut and they just now brought it in because it's down to just making smoke in the wood. The sight of any chips flying would excite the homeowner at this point so the chain gets a quick touch and out the door or a very heavy hand so there is no possibility of being sharpened again and the homeowner must buy a new chain next time he comes in. It pays to learn how to hand file so you're not mistaken for a typical homeowner/user. Look at the chain before you hand over any money and make sure the shop did a good job on your chain. If you don't immediately point out you're not happy with the job they did on your chain the shop will never know they have SMHS. It's rare to find a shop with FMSS, we just got this Freaking, Moronic Sharpener Syndrom and you're the guinea pig, again like PMS, the shop that has this syndrom doesn't know they have it until you point out you're not pleased with the job they did on your chain. All the more reason to learn to hand file your own chains. All in all you probably just got the new guy learning how to work the sharpener who is clueless when it comes to sharpening chain and your chain is stained with blue heat marks to prove it. You should learn how to hand file your chains to avoid shops with these syndroms, the new guys at the sharpener wheel or to be mistaken for a homeowner who wants some chips instead smoking and powdering his way through a few pieces of firewood.

 

[TonyM]

Those homeowner chain smokin' in the wood types are the problem. If I could "touch up" a wood dull chain on the grinder, I could charge less and get it done fast, but those who have slighly wood dull chains usually also know how to file, so they don't need a sharpening service. On the other hand, Joe homeowner brings his chain in becuase it has the smoking syndrome, and I have to grind so much away to get it sharp again that it's almost more cost effective to buy a new chain. Then on top of that, the guy might be upset that his chain is half gone when he comes to pick it up. I've considered charging based on how dull the chain is, but I think that would get into a mess real quick like, so I try to settle on a happy median.

Listening to some people talk about chain sharpening can be quite comical. I've heard people talk like getting their chain sharpened was a once a season thing, kind of like a tune up to the saw, and these aren't people who are doing any sharpening on their own. You also have to figure these are the same people who stick the bar in the dirt ever other cut as well. Then they complain about how long it takes them to cut their years supply of firewood.

I prefer to pass along as much information as I can to people. If I know something that I think they could benefit from, I try to share it with them as much as possible. If I can spend 10 minutes with a guy showing him the difference between a sharp and a dull chain, and talking about filing, etc, it ends up saving me more headaches down the road. But there are always people who have to learn the hard way. Myself, I've never had to learn anything the hard way

 

[tony marks]

dealers ..them that actually know what they doing ,are not as common as some think.. ive got my rnd filing dn pretty good.. now they are at least worthy of the saws their on..
my advice study everything here and other sources of info.. work at it and do it all your self..after while you would sooner buy new as try an work with what some shops put out as a good cutting chain..the info is here bud.. good luck..

 

[Fish]

$10 per chain? I need to raise my prices! Considering I sell 20" Carlton loops for $16,
I need to raise my chain prices too!

 

[ontario026]

Thanks for the responses guys, It looks like I got ripped and will never be letting them touch my chains again... Especially since the last loop of .325 Stihl RS I bought from them only cost me 27$ tax in, 10$ for them to do a crappy sharpening job is very excessive! When I dropped them off they were actually really quite sharp, only with a couple dozen cuts since a fresh hand sharpening... I beleive I did tell him I was mostly looking to have things evened up... This is the closest dealer to my house which is a shame, Looks like maybe I'll just invest in a good digital vernier caliper and do all my sharpening by hand from now on....

 

[MasterBlaster]

... do all my sharpening by hand from now on....

Cool! A vise and good lighting, new file and magic marker!

 

[glens]

Unless you're racing, where every thousandth of a second adds up, or milling, where you want as smooth a surface as practical/possible, taking great pains to ensure cutter-length uniformity is a waste of time which you'll never recover.  Get the Husky ramped depth-gauge guide and set each cutter to itself and don't worry about differences in length.

Glen

 

[IndyIan]

Right now I'm just hand filing for cross cutting, seems to work ok. I just make adjustments as I go to keep cutting straight and without vibration. One chain has lasted for quite a bit of wood and a bit of dirt...

Does anyone use the oregon filing jig? I need something for my ripping chains as I find hand filing doesn't work so well for them.
Ian