Recycling Katrina and Rita

[VTclimber]

Just a thought....If you could find someone who is in the mobile power plant industry (since as stated, we all are not) and get that person to buy into what we are doing, couldn't we use the power to replace all the downed lines that already exist in the Gulf, and those that will exist in 3 days? If we have all these good ideas, but not the resources to do it, why not find the resources? I realize that we all like to be self sufficient, but as this whole thing shows, sometimes you have to ask for help. Now I don't have a clue how to do this, but you guys all have good ideas, so use those big brains to find someone to help. Just a thought.

 

[Thor's Hammer]

Just a thought....If you could find someone who is in the mobile power plant industry (since as stated, we all are not) and get that person to buy into what we are doing, couldn't we use the power to replace all the downed lines that already exist in the Gulf, and those that will exist in 3 days? If we have all these good ideas, but not the resources to do it, why not find the resources? I realize that we all like to be self sufficient, but as this whole thing shows, sometimes you have to ask for help. Now I don't have a clue how to do this, but you guys all have good ideas, so use those big brains to find someone to help. Just a thought.

these are the guys with all the knowledge.
http://www.vanderweyenergy.com/
It just needs a large ($5,000,000)
Investment to make it happen. But with free or extremely cheap fuel, return on investment can be very high. the thing about using a modular system is the high resale value, meaning your capital investment is safe. Believe me, if I had the $$$, I would be making it happen...

 

[Tree Machine]

VT has put it to us. He speaks the truth.

Thor, you dirty dog, the concept of doing that is so right. Generate electricity. Feed the beast 24/7 and power the area for four months, or two years, or whatever. There is an incompreshensible amount of energy locked-up in this available biomass. Harness it. Salvage it. What ever you do,

DO NOT PUT IT INTO THE LANDFILL SYSTEM. We figure out how to connect the industries to bring together a combining of forces that are the sum greater than the parts.

We are in there to help people, and help the environment, and that is what we do as Treeguys in general. We help trees and watch the positive ripple effects. With the 2 hurricanes, we are just putting a recycling twist on what we already do, which is clean up after storms. A lot of people do that, but we arborists are down there in the most organized tree force ever, and can work with industry to help the situation in an immense way.

Recycling two hurricanes. Is it really such a far-fetched thought? It will take the direction we give it.

 

[Trinity Honoria]

What's up with the WoodMizer deal?

what about that call you made to Woodmizer.

has anything come out of that idea??? or is there a new direction???

i realize it's frustrating at this level, lots of ideas, but lots of barriers to getting things done-- some rightfully blocking the way, some just idiocy...

so, please tell all... let us know where the plan stands...

 

[Newfie]

I agree it's a crime to just "landfill" the stuff but I don't see there being anything "valuable" in terms of lumber or firewood. We are taking about trees that have been ripped apart and covered in every imaginable kind of crap. Urban trees that have long been impregnated w/ tramp metal and rot and disease. As a woodmizer owner and firewood producer I'm not interested in any of that headache even if the stuff was given to me gratis. Too much risk for damaged processing equipment and substandard product
Grapples and tub grinders is the economical answer. Make mulch and fuel chips. It's not even going to be good enough for OSB or pulp chips.


A quixotic venture at best. Sorry to sh!t in your oatmeal.

 

[Thor's Hammer]

The point you guys are missing with the mobile power plant idea is that if it were economically feasible then the people who are in that business would be there already. You know, they get CNN too. They certainly are not waiting for some arborist to call them and tell them that there is wood waste in New Orleans.....or Texas.


Dan

The point your missing Dan is that anywhere else in the world, it would be happening right now. The USA has relied on fossil fuels for so long, the people who have all the money for energy investment have made it on the back of fossil fuels and will want to keep it that way.
in Scandinavia, most of there power and heat is provided through Biomass.
In London, the Slough heat+power plant takes in thousands and thousands of tonnes of ground wastewood and wood chips for electrical generation.
I suspect that you probably will see biomass plants down there in the hurricane states within the next 6 months.

 

[Tree Machine]

Ask Koa Man, they're doing this in Hawaii too. Biomass conversion is reclaiming the energy created by the sun. That energy, if tossed into a landfill, is a slap in the face of Mother Nature. As we all know, you don't slap your mother.

Even though Newfie pooped in my oatmeal, his view is representative of some, but the point is not about that the logs will have dirt in them or that foreign objects might be hidden in the trunks. Those are project obstacles, all projects I've ever been involved with have obstacles to overcome. I ask that you don't get hung up in the mechanism, stay focussed on the benefits.

I'm having to again having to agree with Thor. Tactfully said, without having to be accusatory to the Americans. I'm less politically correct with this. I will call out the truth on this: We Americans are so dependent on fossil fuels, we hardly know how to approach other sources of energy. As a general public, we've been programmed and conditioned to think there's an endless, abundant supply of oil, and no need to actively think otherwise. 'New sources' is what the scientists do.

So here we are talking about the most ancient source of fuel that humans have ever used. Wood. When caveman invented fire, what do you think he was burning? We have a LOT of experience here. I'm asking for us to step up and do what we already know.

 

[Tree Machine]

Hurricane Rita, at this moment of writing, is plowing over top of hundreds of oil rigs out in the Gulf and her outer banks are licking the shores of Texas. New Orleans is getting rain, facing more potential flooding. Most of our nations oil refineries are in Houston, which is going to get hammered HARD. We're about to be dropped to our knees. Fuel costs will soar. Fuel wood will be in demand for many in the affected areas. If we throw their valable fuel into landfills, then we've blown it on the back end. The planets ahave aligned for us to take a firm, responsible stand on this reclamation / recycling platform. Our contribution has been sustained and tangible from beginning to present, and I say, let's take it to another stage.


I think this is a major wake-up call to alternative energy sources, on all levels, but for all of us, we focus on the wood, and let fuel cell guys do their thing and the hydogen guys do their work, and ethanol and biodiesel and shale and wind, hydroelectric and solar and thermo do theirs.

We are the wood guys. Our gear industries are companies that create stuff to deal with wood. We are the 'scientists' in this area, the group that has their hands perpetually on tree biomass. Our industries, may I remind you, that serve us, are wanting into the hurricane zones. The movement, I feel is currently in motion, but needs more organization and bringing together of forces beyond those of our own. It is networking and communication right now, and creating a committed effort.

What we can do is give the project a spine. Drive it. Own it. This is our opportunity to step up, give industry what they want, give the locally affected people what they want and give the world public what they deserve- Knowing the hurricane cleanup tasks are being handled professionally by professionals.

The public thinks they blew it on front end. Let's show em what WE can do on the back end.

 

[Tree Machine]

I just got this story. I had mentioned the 'front end' debacle earlier, here's some first-hand account. See if this link works. http://www.alternet.org/story/25227/ It's a 5-7 minute read.

My worst image is for the cleanup to be viewed as a screwed-up mess of an operation. We are doing GREAT with the restoration, but the reclamation and recycling end of things needs direction. It just needs coordination.

I can understand that people are just wanting 'to get rid of it', but that is a short-sighted, inwardly-thinking perspective. If you want to change the world, you have to think outwardly.

There will be tens of thousands down there in that area who will need firewood this Winter and when people start to wonder "Where did all the wood go?" and they realize millions of dollars were spent so it can hog up valuable landfill space and rot, people are going to ask, "WHY WASN'T SOMETHING DONE?"

Or chance is now to see that doesn't happen. I think it is up to us, more than any other group out there, to influence the outcome of what happens ultimately to all the debris. If there's 10 different tactics to recycle Katrina and Rita, then we need to get those tactics working together in the same area, get attention on the project and gain involvement from the locals who I'M SURE would like to see something USEFUL done with the thousands of downed trees

 

[Fireaxman]

Thor's Hammer has got to be right on. These are not the first two nor will they be the last two hurricanes that will happen on the Gulf Coast. Make electricity out of it and put it in the wires and let who needs it use it. Problem is how do we get the attention of someone that can make it happen.

My brother retired from BP (British Petroleum). They take a lot of pride in being a "Green" company exploring multiple energy scources, and with their experience in Europe maybe they are familiar with the process T's H is referring to. I don't know how to get their attention, but maybe my brother can help me work some of Thor's idea up through their beaurocracy. I'll give it a try anyway. If anyone else has any contacts, give it a shot.

In fact, my brother is now pretty well established with a Louisiana based independant. Maybe a comparitively small company could be more agile in taking advantage of this.

 

[Fireaxman]

Tell'em if they make it happen, I'll get me a BP charge card, and I'll buy some of their stock.

 

[Tree Machine]

I love ya man but you've got to be kidding. A firewood shortage in an area with such a mild climate and with millions of downed trees? I'll have to see it to believe it. Dan

I didn't suggest a shortage of firewood. That would be silly. Maybe an implied shortage of fuel oil, or at the very least an increase in fuel prices that will shift a LOT more people toward using their woodburners and fireplaces, especially this Winter season. I think this is inevitable.

I'm in with Thor on electric generation, and also with tub grinders, but there needs to be more, that's what I'm saying, for at least 4 months. It's pie-in-the-sky to think that this could be sustainable forever. It needs to be a MODEL, OK? That's what we're creating is an eco-friendly model. This time we give it our best shot. Next time we take this experience and do it better. We just won't know if this works unless we try. In the 'risk vs. rewards' model I see this as big rewards, win-wins on all kinds of levels as well as being 'the right thing to do'.

So beyond Electrical generation and tub grinders, I see pulling off the primo logs and squaring off the logs into cants, don't even spend the time milling into lumber, way too much work, just get them squared up and stored under cover. Get a couple thousand cants stacked up and ready to resaw, you have created a small, local industry. You've also created a visible, measurable community-direct benefit as well as showing the world what it needs to see.

Firewood processing, same place as the mill setup. Put a major-league unit down with a six-way splitter and a fall-off onto an elevator-conveyor like for those used to move corn or haybales upstairs. How giant a pile do you think we can create in 4 months? Measurable, tangible and a benefit to the local community.

The tub grinder could be on the SAME site making mountains of mulch.

The resource is there. The equipment is a matter of coordination. The value to industry comes in positive press, world-wide exposure and increased sales of their products. Trust me, news people are scouting for great stories. Let make a good story. 4 months, not a lifetime. Just 4 months.

The question is not whether you will be doing this, but whether you want to see this done. I'm listening.....

 

[Tree Machine]

I'll give them a call and tell them about the hurricanes. I've heard they are trying to organize a group interested in preserving the storm damaged trees.Dan

Send them to this thread. Send them here, send them here, send them here.
Tree machine home 317-257-6667
cell 317-407-5113

 

[Tree Machine]

Recycling in the news

A Woodmizer user in the Katrina zone, http://www.meridianstar.com/articles/2005/09/14/local_news/news_stories/a1-lumberman.txt

A good article here, a report on Timber status in the South. http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/2005-09-13-katrina-timber_x.htm

 

[oldugly]

Just some thoughts

Just a thought, there are already power plants that take mulch in to use in their coal fired plants. If the grinders were to grind into rail cars and the mulch sent by train, rather than truck....shipping could be much more efficient, larger quantities could be shipped, and you could actually turn a profit by mulch alone. As far as planting mulch...a couple of grinders could be set for this also, and again shipped by rail....as long as the end market was stable, and able to handle the volume. Let's not forget the paper industry also....It seems they have bought chips, and grindings for years. Just trying to give some new legs to some good thoughts.

 

[Tree Machine]

You may be old, and you may be ugly, but I like you.

 

[oldugly]

Thanks,

Thanks I might be old and ugly, but in this business you don't get to be old without being a little smart, and ugly is part of a proud family heritage.
I like your ideas, and have read quite a few of your posts. Good luck, and let me know if I can help somehow.

 

[Tree Machine]

Have you asker Mrs. Ugly if she'd like to come with? Get an RV, you would be mobile and supported. Make it a Family affair. Go down in mid November, Come back for the holidays and rest, go back down for three months and enjoy your 'Winter'.