Redmax online sales policy

[GitWood]

If I knew of a good dealer in my area, I would try to do my part to keep him in business. Unfortunately power equipment dealers are like any other dealers. Occasionally you find a really good one, but the ones that don't have a clue probably outnumber them 10 to 1. For me:
Best price on equipment = online.
Fastest source of parts = online.
Best source of info. = A.S.
Only reliable service = Me. I could take my saw to any of the local dealers for repair or give my 5-yr-old a hammer and monkey wrench and say "see what you can do with it". The result would be the same, but the 5-yr-old has them beat hands down on price.

Don't get me wrong, I really admire a good dealer and wish I had one near. It just doesn't seem to be an option for me.

 

[sedanman]

I could care less what the local dealer does. I buy local for the most part, but only because I perceive some value in doing so. I also buy from Baileys, again because I see value in doing so. If there is no value in me buying local I go elsewhere.
Just because you have a dealership doesn't mean you have a license to steal. Which is what you want.

Why is is stealing for me to make a profit and perfectly ok for you to do so? My gripe with Amicks is rooted in their hypocracy ( I will not divulge what I know but suffice it to say they complained about the very thing they were doing, ok for them just not anyone else? ).
For those concerned, my business is growing every year and doing quite well. Internet sales have not crippled me, I just have have a problem with the concept of a dealer who feels entitled to undercut my prices and steal my customers then leave me with the responsibility of providing service to that customer while the wash their hands of the guy and move on.
Profit margins on OPE are generally modest, I have no problem with this. The profit margin on most furniture is 140 percent yet NONE of you are ?????ing about what furniture costs. I have never heard anyone suggest that they should demand a few "free" recliners with the purchase of a new sofa., yet the dealer could easily absorb these with your logic. And yes, the fact that Amicks has to change their ways pleases me........SUE ME!

 

[John Ellison]

If I knew of a good dealer in my area, I would try to do my part to keep him in business. Unfortunately power equipment dealers are like any other dealers. Occasionally you find a really good one, but the ones that don't have a clue probably outnumber them 10 to 1. For me:
Best price on equipment = online.
Fastest source of parts = online.
Best source of info. = A.S.
Only reliable service = Me. I could take my saw to any of the local dealers for repair or give my 5-yr-old a hammer and monkey wrench and say "see what you can do with it". The result would be the same, but the 5-yr-old has them beat hands down on price.

Don't get me wrong, I really admire a good dealer and wish I had one near. It just doesn't seem to be an option for me.

I agree with you Gitwood. We all agree that it is all about the dealer and good service, but what if it is just not available locally? What about the poor guy that lives in Hardluck Montana or on an island logging camp in Alaska and there are no dealers at all? I have lived in places where the trip to the dealer would cost about as much as the saw itself would.

I know it wont be like I want it to but I wish the manuf. would set a low price limit so there would be no sniveling, and allow me to buy the saw and parts wherever I want. I have been in good saw shops and I really appreciate them, where they know what a sawdust deflector is and it wont take an hour to look it up in a book that they cant find. A guy wants that kind of service whether its by phone or in person.

Maybe some Amish logger will file a lawsuit against the saw manu. for discrimination.

 

[bcorradi]

My gripe is you starting a thread solely to bash a competitor who happens to be an AS sponsor. I haven't ever or know anyone who bought anything from Amick's. What are you expecting out of this thread? Sympathy? A good bashing of Amicks?

The profit margin on most furniture is 140 percent yet NONE of you are ?????ing about what furniture costs. I have never heard anyone suggest that they should demand a few "free" recliners with the purchase of a new sofa.

Probably the reason why we aren't talking about furniture dealers too often is because this is a chainsaw site. Its probably the same reason why we don't talk about the profit margin on lady's panties either. Why didn't you sell furniture instead?

 

[sedanman]

There are too many places to buy furniture around here now, we needed another OPE dealer.

 

[computeruser]

There are too many places to buy furniture around here now, we needed another OPE dealer.

But just imagine the money you'd be making if, instead of charging 140% mark-up on furniture you undercut your competitors and only charged 100% mark-up. You'd be making a grip and you'd soon have all the business in town!

 

[spike60]

Another point for you guys to contemplate: Two of the "dealers" who most strongly objected to Huskys being low balled over the internet were none other than Lowes and Tractor Supply. They didn't enjoy having people walk in with price quotes printed off their computers which they then had to beat by an additional 10%. And, they aren't small little dealers. They are big accounts. Much bigger than the online dealers. And when they object to something, the supplier is certainly going to listen. So, it's not just us indepedents that had a problem with the way things were.

 

[THALL10326]

Another victory for communism....

Come on Ben, get over it. Its not communism , its business. Now that your avenue's are being cut short by the manufactures and their, not yours, but their own products, you cry foul and say communism. Fact is they build those products and will sell them as they see fit. Apparenlty Redmax has chosen a route you don't care for but you have no right to complain, they run their business just like you run yours. You don't twist their arm to come stay at your $370.00 a nite resort and they aren't twisitng your arm to buy their products. If my memory serves me correctly it was you that said quote "adapt or die" when internet sales were running wild and there were deals all over the place. Husky saw prices varying as much as $200.00. Now that its being slowly shut down, not by dealers, but the maker of the products themselves its your turn to adapt or die as you so well put it. Its not communism Ben, its called the shoe is on the other foot now. Now you know how the dealers felt when they could not compete with the big online sellers. The manufactures are leveling the playing feild and your welcome to adapt. The maker, not the dealers, of your beloved 372's is going to soon make you pay full price just like you do your customers at your resort.

You spoke of a license to steal, ha, what a joke. I don't know what services you provide at your resort but unless it wears a dress and is hot the fishing sure can't be that good. I'll be nice though and say your not twisting my arm or any others to visit and pay and neither are any dealers or manufactures forcing you to buy their products so you have no beef to complain about.

 

[cuttinscott]

Come on Ben, get over it. Its not communism , its business. Now that your avenue's are being cut short by the manufactures and their, not yours, but their own products, you cry foul and say communism. Fact is they build those products and will sell them as they see fit. Apparenlty Redmax has chosen a route you don't care for but you have no right to complain, they run their business just like you run yours. You don't twist their arm to come stay at your $370.00 a nite resort and they aren't twisitng your arm to buy their products. If my memory serves me correctly it was you that said quote "adapt or die" when internet sales were running wild and there were deals all over the place. Husky saw prices varying as much as $200.00. Now that its being slowly shut down, not by dealers, but the maker of the products themselves its your turn to adapt or die as you so well put it. Its not communism Ben, its called the shoe is on the other foot now. Now you know how the dealers felt when they could not compete with the big online sellers. The manufactures are leveling the playing feild and your welcome to adapt. The maker, not the dealers, of your beloved 372's is going to soon make you pay full price just like you do your customers at your resort.

You spoke of a license to steal, ha, what a joke. I don't know what services you provide at your resort but unless it wears a dress and is hot the fishing sure can't be that good. I'll be nice though and say your not twisting my arm or any others to visit and pay and neither are any dealers or manufactures forcing you to buy their products so you have no beef to complain about.

Excellent Post Tom :notrolls2:

Scott

 

[spike60]

We all agree that it is all about the dealer and good service, but what if it is just not available locally?

With the exception of the excellent point that John made above, isn't this argument in large part just "about the money"? I mean, come on, there are a few guys here who are trying to turn this into some kind of high principled debate. (Communism? Please Ben.) No ones freedoms are being assaulted here, just maybe their wallets. The basic gripe here is that some people will have to pay more, and nobody likes to pay more. (or make less) But let's not try and turn this into some kind of congressional inquiry.

At least I'll admit it. It's about the money! Business is business, and if the new policies hinder an online competitor to my advantage, then I'm all for it.

As John mentioned, not everyone has a local dealer. And some may be stuck with a local dealer who is a jerk. So, there will be post after post from guys who would rather buy online. But, again you have to understand that the "AS factor" is in play here. By that, I mean that many AS members know more about saws than the average dealer. The manufacturers have to look at the larger, (and dumber), customer base. Those people, on average, can do very little of their own work. Therefore, access to a local servicing dealer is more important to them. Regardless of where products are purchased, some kind of service network must be in place to support them.

Again, regardless of how it may affect your personal situation, the big picture has obviously convinced the OEM's that an online free for all isn't good for them or the majority of their customers. Both end users and dealers, like I mentioned in my other post about Lowes and Tractor Supply.

But none of you guys who are complaining about these policies should dare use the word "unfair". When dealers used that word in the past, we were told that fairness had nothing to do with it. It was business. Learn to compete. Learn to adapt. Well, Thall is 100% correct: the shoe is on the other foot now. Complain if you like, but don't be a hypocrite.

 

[Cam501]

... but if Redmax can't make sales without local dealers, then the consumer looses due to higher prices (lower volume), or with Redmax giving up on the USA market. It is possible they are in a downward spiral and are trying to pull out before hitting the bottom, Husky ownership or not.

We don't sell RedMax, but In my area the blowers and trimmers have a pretty solid marketshare with brand loyal customers. And as for Ben, he's not the average customer. The majority of people that walk in to our dealership aren't like him. Most don't have the know how to do their own repairs and many of those that do don't have the time because time is money. So for the vast majority of customers, having a good local servicing dealer is important to them.

 

[bwalker]

Why is is stealing for me to make a profit and perfectly ok for you to do so?

Its fine to make a profit as long as its not done so with artificial manipulations of the market so as to tilt the market in your favor.
This whole I cant compete thing is BS.You could do the same thing that online retailers are, but you chose not to, then have the gall to wish the market change to favor your crappy business model.
In my business when changes in the market occur I adapt and alter my business model accordingly. I don't ????? to the government or some other entity to stack the deck in my favor in lue of changing to accommodate the market.

 

[bwalker]

BTW this may be a battle won for the Luddites, but you will lose the war. Internet commerce IS the future. In a society that values time and convenience as well as cheap prices it really can not play out any other way.

 

[bwalker]

With the exception of the excellent point that John made above, isn't this argument in large part just "about the money"? I mean, come on, there are a few guys here who are trying to turn this into some kind of high principled debate. (Communism? Please Ben.) No ones freedoms are being assaulted

It is about money, but only indirectly. Directly its about VALUE. A dealer doesnt deserve my business by virtue of having a dealership. They have to provide me with some thing that I cant get elsewhere of value. Otherwise it comes down to a price only decision and the local guy almost always loses.
The path is littered with land mines for the business owner that thinks he is owed business by virtue of ownership. Which is the exact attitude exemplified by Sedanman.
BTW Spike, artificial manipulation of markets is a linchpin of a communist economy.

 

[Cam501]

Its fine to make a profit as long as its not done so with artificial manipulations of the market so as to tilt the market in your favor.
This whole I cant compete thing is BS.You could do the same thing that online retailers are, but you chose not to, then have the gall to wish the market change to favor your crappy business model.
In my business when changes in the market occur I adapt and alter my business model accordingly. I don't ????? to the government or some other entity to stack the deck in my favor in lue of changing to accommodate the market.

Ben, if you were to actually look at a brick and mortar dealer's numbers, you would see that you cannot sell at the same price several of the online dealers are. Maybe the dealers in your area really suck, that's entirely possible, but for the rest of us, we have to have a reasonable profit on what we sell. I'm not saying all dealers should artificially mark up prices, I'm saying you have to make a REASONABLE profit (not extraordinary) off of any line you carry or there is no point in being in business. We're here to serve our customers with a good product at a fair price We don't sell the thousands of saws a year that it takes to be able to make it on single digit margins. Single digit margins won't pay the bills when you account for the total cost of carrying a line and keeping saws/trimmers/etc in stock on floor plan(paying interest on those that haven't sold within the alloted time). Bailey's can because they are a very high volume outfit with 98% of their business online. 95% of our business is walk in. If the vendor (husky/redmax or whomever) doesn't do anything to keep the independent dealer competetive enouhg to want to carry their product, there's going to be a long term problem regarding the service of their product. Dealers will drop that particular line if they can't make a reasonable profit. It's not like a $400 saw costs a dealer $200 and they make double their money. And it costs money to have a service department(which a majority of customers need...i don't think you are the average chain saw customer, most of us on here are not the typical customer) Most customers need access to a service department. All in all though, it's the vendor's prerogative to do whatever they feel is in the best interest of their company. Apparently husky feels it's in the best interest of their company not to allow redmax online sales and to restrict husky internet sales and pricing.

 

[Mr.]

Hell must have frozen over because Ben is right, for the most part.

I wouldn't sell a product where someone had a gun to my head telling me who could be my client. I detest territories, but this is a step in that direction. The guys on here are atleast interested in saws. That's important, but doesn't necessarily make them good dealers.

Good saw dealers are like good car dealers. Rarer then hen's teeth. We have a good Stihl dealer here locally. 440's are $620, 460's are $700, 660's are $800. He makes a good living. I wonder how he does it? He's a good dealer first, then he has a good price.

Sedanman should be happy he has less PERCIEVED competition, but to take a shot a Amicks is not acceptable. I remember how he felt when we caught a former sponser in a web of lies. He's a good guy, just not about this.

Fred

 

[bwalker]

Ben, if you were to actually look at a brick and mortar dealer's numbers, you would see that you cannot sell at the same price several of the online dealers are.

I dont doubt this to be the case. BUT you could venture into online sales as well and reap the purchasing power benifits of buying in larger quantities.

Hell must have frozen over because Ben is right, for the most part.

I was wrong once, but that was a long time ago.

 

[bwalker]

BTW its pretty ironic that several people on this thread have mentioned that most dealers suck. I said the same thing awhile back and everybody and their brother jumped on me.
The fact remains however that most of the dealerships of any kind do suck.
Excellent service and knowledge is the exception, not the rule

 

[sedanman]

Its fine to make a profit as long as its not done so with artificial manipulations of the market so as to tilt the market in your favor.
This whole I cant compete thing is BS.You could do the same thing that online retailers are, but you chose not to, then have the gall to wish the market change to favor your crappy business model.
In my business when changes in the market occur I adapt and alter my business model accordingly. I don't ????? to the government or some other entity to stack the deck in my favor in lue of changing to accommodate the market.

Ben, You have stated before that no other outfit can compare to your lodge, that there is no exact equal. That in itself may be what tilts the market to your advantage ( or your perception may differ wildly from reality, I'll never know because you won't take my 1/2 off offer) . You state that there is no competition to your lodge because there is no "apples to apples" comparison. Let's say I did prostitute my store all over the internet and every other dealer did the same thing. If we were all successful , we would pretty much split the sales among the dealers and have the added expense of a shipping department and web related expenses. Or we do away with online sales, save the expense and headache and divvy up the sales anyway.

 

[bwalker]

FWIW I went into my local hardware/Lawnboy dealer today with the intent of ordering a short block for a 22061/duraforce mower I have. I brang in a part number of the short block that I needed that I looked on a online sales website. The guy "helping" informed me that the short blocks where no longer available since the mower was discontinued a few years ago. I knew this to be false because I ordered another short block last summer.
I also looked up the price online before I went in and they on line place showed it as available.
Needless to say I had the Short block ordered within 10 minutes of arriving back at my house.
I wonder why in the world I wasted a hour of my time and fuel for my truck to drive to this so called dealer when I could have done the same thing without leaving the house and got it cheaper to boot