rope

[gage52]

looking for opinions on good rigging rope. something other then stable. looking for a good 12 strand(5/8). what do you guys think?thanks

 

[SteveBullman]

not used stable braid....i've used double esterlon which i like, i have a hank of yake xt12 16mm which is cheap and cheerful but more than adequate for all but the heaviest rigging. but my favourite rope is a 16mm double braid i bought from a chandlery.....think its marlow maybe. ive put that through some serious work pulling trees over, tough as old boots and real workable too!

 

[jmack]

5/8

looking for opinions on good rigging rope. something other then stable. looking for a good 12 strand(5/8). what do you guys think?thanks

treemaster 3 strand
husky 5/8 all gear
yale 5/8 www.wesspur.com 1800.268.2141 west coast time

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Why use 12 or 3 strand? They stretch WAY too much to be used for a good rigging rope. Check out their statistics.

Any of the double braids will out perform them. Be sure to get them with the urethane coating so that they have a long life.

 

[okietreedude1]

yale 5/8 www.wesspur.com .268.2141 west coast time

I carry the 5/8 yale also. Better than that, Im a sponsor here.

 

[jmack]

oops

I carry the 5/8 yale also. Better than that, Im a sponsor here.

sorry okiye dude i entered the Address and it popped up like that with a link

 

[jmack]

stretch

Why use 12 or 3 strand? They stretch WAY too much to be used for a good rigging rope. Check out their statistics.

Any of the double braids will out perform them. Be sure to get them with the urethane coating so that they have a long life.

yea on the stretch they said that the strength was high because of the stretch factor and warned me of little or no clearance and the stretch, 3 strand i use for natural crotches

 

[clearance]

Seems to me that a rope that stretches would be a good thing when rigging off big tops, logs from the spar you are in. Rope stretch would lessen the shock load, would it not? Don't know, never would do stuff like that, just asking. I know that shock loads multiply wieghts tremendously, makes sense, no?

 

[BostonBull]

Seems to me that a rope that stretches would be a good thing when rigging off big tops, logs from the spar you are in. Rope stretch would lessen the shock load, would it not? Don't know, never would do stuff like that, just asking. I know that shock loads multiply wieghts tremendously, makes sense, no?

Thats what I was always told! Ken Palmer has some VERY good videos with Dynamometers attached to rigging. With and without ropes that have stretch.

 

[clearance]

Thanks Boston Bull, I figure thats why guys that bungee jump use bungees. If you were bungee jumping with a no stretch rope it would rip your feet off. I have never riigged of big anything from the tree I was in, I think it is just retarded. But I have worked with many different types of cranes (hammermead tower cranes, Demag 80 tonners, Hiabs, stingers) and I know that shock loading is very bad, avoided by any competent op. Isn't Ken Palmer that guy from the videos that says "see you at the top" ?

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i'm with the stretch when affordable spacewise. To decrease the impact force takes just what is needed to increase impact force-distance per second. De-acceleration simply the re-verse/ Equal and Opposite of acceleration.

i think to watch just the tensile strength for determining purpose; is just to watch the 'macho' elemeant of the line. Taking the forgiveness of elasticity to be the 'feminine' strength elemeant that should not be ignored for the extra space needed, nor the easing of forces.

With 5/8" of half decent tensile; lower loads will be handled more statically/ less dynamic absorption anyways. But heavier loads will get the dynamic absorption. If we DWT or pre-stretch line, we lose elasticity on same load. If we extend rigging get more elasticity back into the formula. If the support is a pulley, rather than branch friction; we can pretighten more from ground; but also the length from support to ground contributes more to elasticity of dampening load forces; than if the support was a 'friction buffer' between load and control of load.

So, line choice can have many considerations. Obstacle Clearance, tensile to load ratio, rigging, support friction, length of line in system etc. Polyester less stretch than Nylon; Dyneema/Spectra even less strech; but more than Kevlar/Technora. The Dyneema/Spectra is stronger and lighter than the Kevlar; and is being used in bulletproof vests behind a ceramic covering for better/lighter flak vests. The higher strength and more elasticity, combined with lighter weight make the new lines more preferable to the Kevlar class. But, for wings and sails; the low stretch Kevlar still rules. So; just as in rigging; the fiber device choice must be in relationship to the specific task to optimize!!

 

[OutOnaLimb]

I have never had any problems with Stable Braid, and I have been using it for years. One thing about it is that the cover will tend to stretch and the core will not. An easy solution is to cut about an inch off of one end and milk the cover down the length of your rope, cutting off the excess cover, and re-whipping your line. One other thing about the stable braid is that it tends to coil up when your using a Porta Wrap.

Kenn

 

[jmack]

yup

Seems to me that a rope that stretches would be a good thing when rigging off big tops, logs from the spar you are in. Rope stretch would lessen the shock load, would it not? Don't know, never would do stuff like that, just asking. I know that shock loads multiply wieghts tremendously, makes sense, no?

yea the 5/8 husky breaks at nine tons the because of the stretch in the core it is definatly a good thing

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Thats what I was always told! Ken Palmer has some VERY good videos with Dynamometers attached to rigging. With and without ropes that have stretch.

Do you remember which ropes were used in the videos? There are many lessons to be learned from those videos. The most important is to see how much of the load is transferred to the rigging point. You can always take smaller pieces. Using a high stretch rope isn;t an option when you can't let the piece drop. Letting pieces run is another way to reduce the impact load.

If hockling is a problem with a rope and a lowering device switch ends occasionally. You'll balance the hockles. Another thing that this does is let that end of the rope contract to it;s rested length. If you keep slam dunking onto the same end of the rope you risk breaking the rope. Think of stretching bubble gum. If you pull a little and slack a little then pull a little more you'll get a longer pull.

Without an understanding of what rope stretch is you won't be able to make a decision about which rope to choose. There are fiber ropes that have almost no stretch and are closer to solid rods and then on the other end of the spectrum there are bungie cords that are completely stretch. Rigging ropes are somewhere in between.

Double braids are pretty much the industry standard for rigging ropes. If you want to learn why, study the rope manufacturers websites AND read Arborist Equipment by Don Blair. You'll learn a lot more by studying than by just asking a question on a website. Once you've decided which rope style you want and need to know which company makes the best performing rope, ask in a forum.

You asked which rope would be better for rigging and I've given you mine, and most arborists, opinion. When you study the stretch charactersistics of three strand and 12 strand you should see why they aren;t used for rigging ropes. If you ever need to tension a stretchy rope it's going to take a lot more work. Then, you have a rope that is like a bungie cord. When you make the cut the rope acts like a rubber band and pulls the piece. Not what you want when you rig.

Be careful not to take lessons learned at a seminar out of context. Seeing what happens when a piece is lowered onto a Spectra rope vrs. a three strand are as similar as horses and thunderstorms.

What is 5/8 husky? I've never heard of that manufacturer...

 

[treeman82]

I'm going tomorrow to pick up some new slings I had made up at Muench. Both double esterlon because the guy only carries Yale and NER, 1" and 3/4". Tensiles are 44,000 and 20,000 respectively.

 

[okietreedude1]

What is 5/8 husky? I've never heard of that manufacturer...

Husky is distributed by All Gear, Inc. out of Illinois. They are the same group that sells Fling It throwline. They were at Nashville for ISA over by the demo tree.

 

[rbtree]

I have never riigged of big anything from the tree I was in, I think it is just retarded.

LOL

If you've never done it, then you aren't qualified to make such ludicrous statements....

Read Tom's last post, plenty to glean from it, for anyone who does or plans to do heavy rigging.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

I have never rigged anything big from the tree I was in, I think it is just retarded.

i like high friction on support to about eliminate 2x effect of loading across support. Combine that with Zer0 shock; it seems safe to me to hang weight from the same tree that held it all the time; especially across shared supports and moving limb from a horizontal leveraged position to hang vertical inline; thus placing less leveraged tension on tree.


i'm sure that Tom is 187% right for a generous range of rigging strategies. But, i think that the wonders of mechanics promises 2 things: Anything has a maximum applicable strategy; and also anything that can stand for ye; can at some time stand against ye (screw you up). There is a lot of sense to what he says; especially in lifting. i think if you are rigging out 500#, and pretighten to 500# from overhead it should be low-no shock; if you are using elastic lines and have elbow room the dampening action of the elasticity built into the line can be helpful. Or even over stretch line to store force in the elasticity, to use during rigging/ forcing hinge; there are some places for elasticity i think.

Plus; i sweat lines to pretighen very often, or give perpendicular pull to force hinge; and think that is easier to do with elastic lines. The perpendicular force on a tight line is a very intense; high leverage return strategy. So; i think a lot depends on your strategies and how you employ them to target.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

looking for opinions on good rigging rope. something other then stable. looking for a good 12 strand(5/8). what do you guys think?thanks

I almost exclusivley use 1/2 in Stable Braid, then for biger stuff a 9/16.

Most of the people I work for have 3/4, but it's not worth dragging around unless you have huge chunks to catch.

I worked with 1 in arborplex a few times. That sucked !

 

[BigJohn]

Good rigging ropes? Hmmmm....... I have to say for everyday lowering True Blue. Stretch sure it stretches. Just drop a couple 5 or 600 pound logs into it and let them run though a natural crotch and burn the ???? out of it and it wont stretch so bad after that. That is the first thing I do with a new one when I get the chance. The true blue is durable as hell.

I hated the stretch factor in the rope at first. It was only thing I had where I was so I learned to work around it and change my ways. It me better and forced me to come up with better methods.

In tight spots and heavy loads go with an approiate size bull rope, double braid of 9/16,5/8,3/4 and 1 inch.

Push the envelope don't lick it.